8 Replies Latest reply on Jul 16, 2015 7:55 AM by SBDebreuil

    Unwanted Scaling when Adding Face Behavior

    SBDebreuil Level 1

      So I want a puppet that has Face and Lip Sync behavior on both Front and 3/4 views. To do this, I've turned off the Face and Lip Sync behaviors for the top level puppet, and added them to the sub-puppet. However, when I do this, I get unwanted scaling that I don't have when the behaviors are on the top level. The puppet is exactly the same, the only thing I've changed is where the behaviors are placed.

      Here's some screen shots to give you a clearer idea:

       

      Behavior at Top Level:

      screen_CA_04.jpg

       

      Behavior on Sub-Puppet:

      screen_CA_04b.jpg

       

      It's usable if I Set Rest Pose, and am careful to not move back or forth, but the head doesn't scale at all when the behavior is at the top level (which is what I'd prefer).

        • 1. Re: Unwanted Scaling when Adding Face Behavior
          Jeff Almasol Adobe Employee

          If you lower Head Scale Strength toward 0%, does it help?

          If not, and you'd like us to take a look with your artwork file, feel free to send it to me. Assuming you don't want to make it public here, just send me a direct message with a link.

           

          Thanks!

          • 2. Re: Unwanted Scaling when Adding Face Behavior
            SBDebreuil Level 1

            No worries about making it public, it's just a test puppet.

            Dropbox - puppet_news01.ai

             

            In the end I'm going back to having the Face and Lip Sync behaviors at the top level, everything works except the Blink on the 3/4 view. And I can just activate the blink with a hotkey, so it works out. Would be nice to  have it automated, though.

            • 3. Re: Unwanted Scaling when Adding Face Behavior
              Jeff Almasol Adobe Employee

              Thanks for the file. The main problem with only having Face and Lip Sync at the top level is that some things might not work as intended. For example, for me the blinks worked in both the front and 3/4 views, but mouth shapes, eye gaze, etc. didn't in the front view.

              I also saw that the 3/4 view's head had an origin handle that was at the shoulder.

               

              If you keep the Face and Lip Sync behavior at the top level, and also apply it to views (head side and head front), do blinks, mouths, etc. work for both views?

               

              Thanks for the feedback to help point out the things getting in your way. We are working on ways to make this stuff more bullet-proof.

              • 4. Re: Unwanted Scaling when Adding Face Behavior
                SBDebreuil Level 1

                First off, thanks for all your answers and help, it's really useful! (And thanks for pointing out the origin point was off).

                 

                I've messed around with it a bit more, and here's what I've found.

                 

                Behaviors on Top Level:

                Mesh works the way I like it (no distortion of the face, eyes and mouth stay 'attached' to face and don't float off).

                Front view: blink, pupil tracking and lip sync works perfectly.

                3/4 view: Blink, pupil and lip sync don't work. Mouth and eyes float off face when I turn head.

                 

                Behaviors on both Top Level and Sub-puppets:

                Head mesh distorts more than before. Eyes and Mouth don't stay 'attached' to face.

                Front view: Blink, pupil tracking and lip sync all work, but scale inappropriately. This can be fixed by turning 'Head scale strength' to 0. Eyes and mouth still float off face.

                3/4 view: Same as front view.

                 

                Behaviors only on sub-puppets (Front and 3/4 views)

                Works the same as when behaviors are assigned to both top level and sub-puppets. Biggest issue is the eyes and mouth 'slide' off face, it's like they have a different anchor point when the behavior location is changed.

                 

                So I guess my biggest question is why the puppet mesh changes when behaviors are assigned to different levels. I don't really understand how that works yet.

                 

                Anyways, sorry for the long-winded post, I think this tool has tons of potential, and I'm really looking forward to figuring it out!

                • 5. Re: Unwanted Scaling when Adding Face Behavior
                  jovanpopovic Adobe Employee

                  Thanks for posting the puppet.  It will help us work through these complex cases.

                   

                  (A quick unrelated note, you can make the mousetrack on the right arm work better by reducing mesh expansion: select Front in the puppet panel and set Mesh Expansion in Puppet properties to 1.  This will allow the mesh to snake in between the arm and the body, which you can see by checking the Show Mesh checkbox.)

                   

                  Onto you real question.  As you know, the Face behavior looks for handles named head, mouth, left eye, and so on. In this case, we'll focus on the head handle(s) because it determines the position of the head.  Note that in your case, there are three of those: head, head side (1!), and head front. Longer term the Face behavior should do something sensible for all three, but right now it just picks the first whenever there are several options.  When you apply Face to top-level puppet, it latches onto head handle.  When you apply Face to head front it latches onto head front handle.  Because these are different you can expect to see different results.

                   

                  Let's see how head and head front handles differ within the Puppet panel.  It's a bit hard to see with yellow font on top of skin color (we'll fix that), but you should see that they are in different locations.  You could force them to the same location with an origin guide in each head and head front folder.  Origin guides are renamed after their folder name so they will become head and head front.  When you don't provide them they are created for your automatically and placed at the center of the art's bounding box.  It looks like you've tried to do that as there are handles named orgin (sp) in both head front and head side (1!) folders.  We will warn you about that in the future but for now you will need to fix the spelling.

                   

                  When you fix this it will behave better but I do see an issue I need to look into.  I will post back soon with a workaround.

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Unwanted Scaling when Adding Face Behavior
                    jovanpopovic Adobe Employee

                    The last problem I had to fix was that my placement choice for head, head front, and head side was too close to the neck handle (it shows up in the console log).

                    I fixed that by un-naming the neck folder, which removes the neck handle.

                    (Note that I also renamed the top head folder to view to highlight that Face behavior should not be applied at that level but on head front and head side puppets instead.)

                    Here is the final file:

                    http://adobe.ly/1gCYZKP

                    And its motion:

                    http://adobe.ly/1LbsnVt

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Unwanted Scaling when Adding Face Behavior
                      LynneM888 Level 1

                      WOW lot's of useful info here. I'll be trying out a human character next with the different views so I'll be giving this a good look over!

                      • 8. Re: Unwanted Scaling when Adding Face Behavior
                        SBDebreuil Level 1

                        Awesome awesome awesome! So much useful information in there, can't wait to really dig into it!