15 Replies Latest reply on Jul 31, 2015 12:30 PM by A.T. Romano

    File size problem

    linessharp

      I am digitizing some old VHS and 8mm videotapes and using Premiere Ele. 10 to edit them and burn DVD’s. I was able to get just over an hour of video on the DVDs from the 8mm tapes but am not able to get half that from the digitized VHS tapes.

       

      Why not? Whats going on?

      1- Am I using the wrong initial settings? I think I have used the same settings for both. What should I use and how can I tell what I did use?

      2- Can I change them after I have completed my editing or do I need to start all over?

      3- I there is a way to reduce the file size without eliminating video clips?

       

      Gene

        • 1. Re: File size problem
          A.T. Romano Level 7

          linessharp

           

          What is your computer operating system?

           

          What are the properties of what you are putting on your Premiere Elements 10 Timeline after the VHS tapes have been digitized and the dizitized file imported into the project?

           

          If your source media have VHS origin, then your project preset should be NTSC DV Standard, assuming that you are working in a NTSC setup. Is that what you are setting in the new project dialog that you see when you open a new project? If the project is already started, please verify your project settings in Edit Menu/Project Settings/General and the readings for Editing Mode, Timebase, Frame Size, and Pixel Aspect Ratio. Officially, you start a new project to set new settings. Unofficially, under circumstances you can change certain important project settings without having to start a new project. We can get into that much later after we put other information together.

           

          In the case of the burn to disc for the footage with VHS origin, what does the burn dialog show for Space Required and Bitrate when the disc is in the burner tray and you are about to hit Burn (Check Mark next to Fit Contents to Available Space)?

           

          Keep in mind

          DVD 4.7 GB/120 min is in reality 4.38 GB. DVD 8.5 GB/240 min is in reality 7.95 GB.

           

          Let us start here and then decide what next based on the details in your reply.

           

          Thank you.

           

          ATR

          • 2. Re: File size problem
            linessharp Level 1

            Thanks for the help. I am getting the data you requested together and will send it along as soon as I can. I can't get it together tonight, not enough time, but will have it soon.

            Gene

            • 3. Re: File size problem
              A.T. Romano Level 7

              Gene

               

              Thanks for the reply.

               

              I will be watching for your reply as your schedule permits. And, I am looking forward to working with you on this.

               

              ATR

              • 4. Re: File size problem
                linessharp Level 1

                Operating system- IMac OSX 10.9.5

                 

                 

                 

                They are imported as .mov files as created by the ROXIO VHSto DVD digitizer

                 

                 

                 

                Here are the values for the 8 projects I have been workingon.

                 

                 

                Project

                 

                 

                Time Base

                 

                 

                Frame Size

                 

                 

                Pixel Aspect Ratio

                 

                 

                Bitrate, Mbps

                 

                 

                Run Time

                 

                 

                File Size, GB

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                Source, VHS Tape

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                  84-1

                 

                 

                29.97

                 

                 

                640x480

                 

                 

                1

                 

                 

                1.69

                 

                 

                0h57m

                 

                 

                8.34

                 

                 

                  84-2

                 

                 

                25

                 

                 

                1280x720

                 

                 

                1

                 

                 

                8

                 

                 

                0n32m

                 

                 

                3.23

                 

                 

                  85-1

                 

                 

                25

                 

                 

                1280x720

                 

                 

                1

                 

                 

                1.69

                 

                 

                1h30m

                 

                 

                5.13

                 

                 

                  85-2

                 

                 

                25

                 

                 

                1280x720

                 

                 

                1

                 

                 

                1.91

                 

                 

                1h20m

                 

                 

                4.38

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                Source, 8mm Tape

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                  90-1

                 

                 

                29.97

                 

                 

                640x480

                 

                 

                1

                 

                 

                7.09

                 

                 

                1h19m

                 

                 

                4.38

                 

                 

                  90-2

                 

                 

                29.97

                 

                 

                640x480

                 

                 

                1

                 

                 

                6.87

                 

                 

                1h21m

                 

                 

                4.38

                 

                 

                  91-1

                 

                 

                29.97

                 

                 

                720x480

                 

                 

                0.9091

                 

                 

                1.7

                 

                 

                0h37m

                 

                 

                4.38

                 

                 

                  91-2

                 

                 

                29.97

                 

                 

                640x480

                 

                 

                1

                 

                 

                8

                 

                 

                1h04m

                 

                 

                4.05

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                It’s obvious I wasn’t as careful about using the sameinitial settings. I really didn’t know what to use because nothing seemed tofit what I was trying to do.

                 

                 

                 

                What do you suggest?

                 

                 

                 

                Gene

                 

                 

                 

                • 5. Re: File size problem
                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                  Gene

                   

                  Thanks for the file data. I have been going through it, and my calculation of file size using bitrate and duration of the file are not close to what you are listing in the last column for File Size, GB.

                   

                  But, 3 of the 4 for Source 8mm Tape are close. Please go over the figures so that we can think about why the calculated file sizes are not close enough to what you are actually reporting. Please double check my calculated values.

                   

                  Also where did the 1280 x 720 come in this in the case of the VHS tapes which would be expected to give 640 x 480.

                  Source VHS Tape

                   

                  Details....

                   

                  84.1

                  If the bitrate is 1.69 Mbps (megabits per second) and the duration of the file is 57 minutes (3420 seconds), I would expect a file size close to

                  9160 megabits which equals 1145 MB (megabytes) which equals 1.1 GB (gigabytes).

                   

                  84.2

                  If the bitrate is 8 Mbps and the duration of the file is 32 minutes (1920 seconds), I would expect a file size close to

                  15360 megabits which equals 1920 MB which equals 1.9 GB.

                   

                  85.1

                  If the bitrate is 1.69 Mbps and the duration of the file is 90 minutes (5400 seconds), I would expect a file size close to

                  9126 megabits which equals 1141 MB which equals 1.1 GB

                   

                  85-2

                  If the bitrate is 1.91 Mbps and the duration of the file is 80 minutes (4800 seconds), I would expect a file size close to

                  9168 megabits which equals 1148 MB which equals which equals 1.1 GB.

                   

                  Source, 8 mm Tape

                   

                  90.1

                  If the bitrate is 7.09 Mbps and the duration of the file is 79 minutes (4740 seconds), I would expect a file size close to

                  33607 megabits which equals 4201 MB which equals 4.2 GB.

                   

                  90.2

                  If the bitrate is 6.87 Mbps and the duration of the file is 81 minutes (4860 seconds), I would expect a file size close to

                  33382 megabits which equals 4173 MB which equals 4.2 GB

                   

                  91-1

                  If the bitrate is 1.7 Mbps and the duration of the file is 37 minutes (2220 seconds), I would expect a file size close to

                  3774 megabits which equals 472 MB which equals 0.47 GB

                   

                  91-2

                  If the bitrate is 8 Mbps and the duration of the file is 64 minutes (3840 seconds), I would expect a file size close to

                  30720 megabits which equals 3840 MB which equals 3.84 GB


                  Also, when you produce your DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc are you using NTSC Dolby DVD trying to maintain a 4:3 workflow?

                   

                  ATR

                   

                   

                   

                   

                  • 6. Re: File size problem
                    linessharp Level 1

                    Ichecked all the numbers and they are correct. I don’t know why they are sodifferent from your calculations. I am using NTSC Dolby DVD.

                     

                     

                     

                    The1280x720 came from my incorrectly using one of the 16x9 preset. Also, theonly presets that use a 25fps time base are in the PAL section, I must havegotten into it by mistake. I at least knew better than that, my bad.

                     

                     

                     

                    Idid an experiment. I created a new project using the correct presets andimported the source files from 84-1. Without any edits the duration was almosttwo hours. By having the “Fit Contents …” checked it did fit on one DVD with however, a reduction of quality. It would appear that my problem is myignorance in not using the correct presets.

                     

                     

                     

                    Now,the next question is, how much of my previous work on these projects can besaved or do I have to start all over??

                     

                     

                     

                    Gene

                    • 7. Re: File size problem
                      A.T. Romano Level 7

                      Gene

                       

                      Let us try the following for those files with VHS origins...

                       

                      1. Open a Premiere Elements 10 Mac project. Confirm that the project preset displaying in the new project dialog = NTSC DV Standard.

                      If not, use Change Settings in the new project dialog to set the project preset to NTSC DV Standard.

                       

                      2. Next go to Edit Menu/Preferences/General and remove the check mark next to Default Scale to Frame Size.

                       

                      3. Import your files with the VHS origins in the project using the project's Get Media/Files and Folders. The project may want to change project preset for you. Say, No.

                       

                      4. Then highlight/select each of the files, click on the image in the monitor to bring up the file's bounding box with handles, and then click drag on one of those handles to scale the image to fit in the space in the Edit area monitor (just to the point where there are no black borders seen).

                       

                      Thanks for the follow ups. Not sure of the reason for the observed and calculated file sizes in this particular case, but let us move on and maybe circle back to that if necessary.

                       

                      ATR

                      • 8. Re: File size problem
                        linessharp Level 1

                        I tried importing the files with and without checking Scale to Frame Size. Checking it seems to work OK, the image bounding box set by the prigram fits pretty well. Is there some other reason to uncheck it?

                        Have you thought about whether I will need to start over or not? Is there anything I can salvage from the previous projects?

                        • 9. Re: File size problem
                          A.T. Romano Level 7

                          Gene

                           

                          Thanks for the message. I think that we may not be in sync.

                           

                          My impression was that you had (example) 4 files (VHS origin) that were created as 1280 x 720 (16:9) instead of 680 x 480 (4:3), and you wanted to salvage those 1280 x 720 16:9 to use in a 680 x 480 4:3 project.

                           

                          If your project preset is NTSC DV Standard or another of the 4:3 project presets, when you import those 1280 x 720 16:9 into the 4:3 space in the Edit area monitor and you have Default Scale to Frame Size enabled, then

                          Your image in the monitor is going to have large black borders at the top and the bottom of the image.

                          Rather than scale what the program has already scaled and did the best it could automatically, I presented my suggestion.

                           

                          Consequently, I advised you to disable the Default Scale to Frame Size preference so that you could do your own scaling to get the 16:9 image to fit into the 4:3 space to the point where no black borders are seen. (The scaling is done so that width and height are scaled at the same time - Associated with Scale and Position, Constrain Proportions has a check mark in Motion Panel expanded.)

                           

                          You ask

                          Have you thought about whether I will need to start over or not? Is there anything I can salvage from the previous projects?

                          What I just described was my suggestion so that you would not need to start over if suggested workflow looked OK.

                          If file size is an issue, then I would just start again. But, I would not start again unless I would certain of the workflow details. Those sample values for the VHS source seem questionable. I am still checking to determine if I am misinterpreting something. So far I have not found it.

                           

                          ATR

                          • 10. Re: File size problem
                            linessharp Level 1

                            I think were in sync. you’re just one step ahead of me. Ithought you were talking about importing the original digitized VHS files notthe project files created in Elements. I’m with you now, however I haven’t beenable to figure out how to move edited files between projects. I haven’t found away to export the timeline from one project and than import it into anotherproject.

                             

                             

                             

                            On the issue of file size I may have misunderstood what youwanted. The data I gave you was from Premiere Elements Project, Disc,Burn, DVDcommand not from the digitized VHS files. Is that what you wanted?

                             

                             

                             

                             Sorry this has takenso much time, but I want you to know how appreciative I am for your help.

                             

                             

                             

                            Manny thanks

                             

                             

                             

                            Gene

                            • 11. Re: File size problem
                              A.T. Romano Level 7

                              linessharp

                               

                              Thanks for the replies.

                               

                              When you are a Windows user, two ways to transfer content from one Premiere Elements project to another

                               

                              1. Export the Timeline or part of it as a file saved to the computer hard drive. One suggestion might be to download and install a free Lagarith video codec and export as Lagarith.avi. (When you download and install the Lagarith codec, it will become available to you under Publish+Share/Computer/AVI. Set for Presets = DV NTSC Standard, and the Advanced Button of the preset selected.) Then you import that export into project 2.

                              The Advanced Button/Video Tab export settings of project 1 would be expected to look like this if you have a 640 x 480 project

                              640480.JPG

                               

                              If you wanted to export only a portion of the Timeline from project 1, then you would need to use the following 2 things, moving from Timeline to export settings for project 1.

                              a. set the gray tabs of the Work Area Bar to span just the portion of the Timeline that you want to export.

                              and

                              b. have a check mark next to Share Work Area Bar Only in the export settings near where you see Advanced Button.

                               

                              2. Windows Only. ClipMate used in conjunction with Premiere Elements for a copy/paste insert between projects.

                              ATR Premiere Elements Troubleshooting: PE: ClipMate Copy/Paste Between Projects

                               

                              Please consider. Any questions, please let me know.

                               

                              Thanks for exploring the troubleshooting suggestions.

                               

                              ATR

                              • 12. Re: File size problem
                                linessharp Level 1

                                Problem is, I am on a Mac and I haven't found any "export", commands. Copy and paste dosen't work. Under the Share tab I can share for:  web DVD  Disc, DVD ,Blu-ray etc  Online  Computer, to Export file for viewing on computers  Mobile Phones etc  Tape, Record to DV tape

                                All these convert the project into some video format for viewing, not a project file for further editing. I'm at a loss.

                                Gene

                                • 13. Re: File size problem
                                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                                  Gene

                                   

                                  Sorry, I detoured to Windows for suggestions...just substitute the following Mac information...

                                   

                                  There should be no reason why you should not explore the following 2 possibilities for your 640 x 480 export for your 640 x 480 project.

                                   

                                  1. Publish+Share/Computer/QuickTime for a H.264.mov file.

                                  In the QuickTime area, set Presets field = NTSC DV

                                  but, under the Advanced Button/Video Tab of that preset, customize it using the following

                                  IntermediateQT.JPG

                                  The bitrate is hard to see. I have it set for 10000 kbps.(which equates to 10 Mbps). You can lower that depending on the file size of the end product. The width = 640 and the Height = 480.

                                   

                                  2. Publish+Share/Mobile Phones and Players/Apple iPod, iPad, and iPhone/Apple iPad Standard High Quality for your H.264.mp4. See the following suggested setting for Advanced Button/Video Tab

                                   

                                  IntermediateMP4.JPG

                                  Frame Width = 640 and Frame Height = 480. The Target Bitrate = 1.1 Mbps, and the Maximum Bitrate = 1.4 Mbps.

                                   

                                  I would start with the H.264.mp4.

                                   

                                  A long while back a Mac user mentioned a software as the substitute for the Windows Only ClipMate. But, I cannot remember the name of that software at this time. For now, please review and consider the above and let me know if that works for you.

                                   

                                  Thanks.

                                   

                                  ATR

                                  • 14. Re: File size problem
                                    linessharp Level 1

                                    It looks like one of these will work. I am stillexperimenting with the settings to find out which works best.

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    Thanks for all your help

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    Gene

                                    • 15. Re: File size problem
                                      A.T. Romano Level 7

                                      Gene

                                       

                                      Sounds like progress. Great news.

                                       

                                      We will be watching for further developments as your time permits.

                                       

                                      Thanks for the update.

                                       

                                      Best wishes

                                       

                                      ATR