12 Replies Latest reply on Nov 29, 2016 11:14 PM by banannatran

    Glacially Slow Rendering in After Effects CC 2015

    lkhllywd

      -Machine I'm Using:  Mid-2010 Mac Pro 2.66GHz 12-Core - 56GB RAM - OSX Mavericks - 1TB 7200rpm System Drive - 4TB 7200rpm Drive Containing Project and All Related Files and Renders

      -What I'm Trying to Do:  Render a 22-minute composition in After Effects 2015 CC.  Composition consists of ONE 22-minute Quicktime clip with the following effects applied:  Extract, Advanced Spill Supressor, Refine Soft Matte and Simple Choker.  Render setting is Lossless w/ Alpha.

      -Problem:  Insanely long render times -- like 24 hours -- to render the clip.  There is no way this should take this long on a machine with these specs -- and indeed, nothing ever did until the latest update.  I have work due to a client on Monday and need a solution to this, please.

        • 1. Re: Glacially Slow Rendering in After Effects CC 2015
          Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Open that project file in CC 2014 and render it. See if that goes faster.

          If you accidentally left the option to remove your old versions when you updated to CC 2015, you can still install CC 2014: How to Find and Install Previous Version of Adobe Apps in CC 2015 | Adobe Customer Care Team

          • 2. Re: Glacially Slow Rendering in After Effects CC 2015
            Gutter-Fish Level 4

            Apparently Adobe disabled multi core rendering 2015.   YAY!!   Updates have rolled out for Illustrator and Premier so either they're screwed worse than AE or AE is so royally screwed they're having a difficult time fixing it. 

            If I hadn't been able to re-install 2014 I'd be out of a job right now. 

            • 3. Re: Glacially Slow Rendering in After Effects CC 2015
              lkhllywd Level 1

              So the "answer" you're giving to a bunch of professionals is, "Use the old one.  The new one doesn't work right."

               

              Is ANYONE at Adobe embarrassed about this?

              • 4. Re: Glacially Slow Rendering in After Effects CC 2015
                Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Paul wrote:

                 

                Apparently Adobe disabled multi core rendering 2015. 

                 

                That's not technically correct. The core of AE is being completely re-written, so they didn't disable it, they just haven't gotten to incorporating multi-core rendering This is explained in their blog post talking about features not available in After Effects CC 2015 (13.5)

                It's actually a sign of great things to come in the future. I'm already really enjoying the snappier interface and the much improved expression handling in CC 2015.

                 

                Paul wrote:

                 

                Updates have rolled out for Illustrator and Premier so either they're screwed worse than AE or AE is so royally screwed they're having a difficult time fixing it.

                The AE team have said that a bug fix update to AE is meant to come out later today. Remember, the AE team is rewriting the main underlying code of the whole program; CC 2015 isn't some little update with a couple new features being added. They are COMPLETELY changing the foundation of the software to make it more modern. So...yes, it's going to take a little longer for them to work out the kinks.

                 

                Paul Bernstein wrote:

                 

                If I hadn't been able to re-install 2014 I'd be out of a job right now.

                In the future, it would probably be easier for you if you don't remove earlier versions when updating as the AE team also mentioned on their blog. This will be especially important to remember for the next major update for AE as it will likely have further major changes as they modernize into a proper multi-core engine. (And it's about time too. That old, buggy multiprocessing was a tired hack!)

                • 5. Re: Glacially Slow Rendering in After Effects CC 2015
                  Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                  The After Effects CC 2015 (13.5.1) bug-fix update is available. It contains many fixes for previews and more:

                  http://adobe.ly/1Il5JYe

                  • 6. Re: Glacially Slow Rendering in After Effects CC 2015
                    Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                     

                     

                    So the "answer" you're giving to a bunch of professionals is, "Use the old one.  The new one doesn't work right."

                     

                    Is ANYONE at Adobe embarrassed about this?

                    I don't work for Adobe. But, in any case no; my answer was, try it and see. It was a troubleshooting step and, potentially, a quick solution.

                     

                    If the only issue was the loss of multiprocessing, then it's super-simple to work in CC 2015 to take advantage of the snappier interface, uninterrupted previews, improved expression handling, libraries, etc. and then open that same project file in CC 2014 for rendering with multiprocessing (IF your project would benefit from it).

                    • 7. Re: Glacially Slow Rendering in After Effects CC 2015
                      lkhllywd Level 1

                      In the future, it would probably be easier for you if you don't remove earlier versions when updating as the AE team also mentioned on their blog.

                       

                       

                       

                      How about this?  In the future, it would probably be easier for me if Adobe didn't roll out new versions of their products before they're finished.  They're rewriting all the underlying code?  Wonderful.  They should FINISH WRITING IT before they release it.

                      • 8. Re: Glacially Slow Rendering in After Effects CC 2015
                        Gutter-Fish Level 4
                        I'm already really enjoying the snappier interface and the much improved expression handling in CC 2015.

                        I know...I guess depending on whether or not the problems with their "new and improved code" happen to effect the area of focus we work in,  will determine whether we see the update as more good than bad or more bad than good.

                        Also it's unfortunate that Adobe chose this release, with it's completely rewritten code & serious changes (like no more multi core rendering) to start automatically uninstalling previous versions with nothing more than an inconspicuous little tick box to save the old versions.

                         

                        Remember, the AE team is rewriting the main underlying code of the whole program; CC 2015 isn't some little update with a couple new features being added. They are COMPLETELY changing the foundation of the software

                        I am relatively new to Adobe suite.  I stumbled into a entry level job with no previous experience necessary about 6 months ago so this was my first update.  I was one of the ones who noticed the option to keep the old versions but I was unfortunately NOT one of the ones who was aware Adobe was releasing a Beta version of AE.

                         

                        In the future, it would probably be easier for you if you don't remove earlier versions when updating as ... they modernize into a proper multi-core engine. (And it's about time too. That old, buggy multiprocessing was a tired hack!)

                        I appreciate your enthusiasm for Adobe and for helping to ease the concerns of aggravated users...but it's just the tiniest bit insulting for you to tell me I am simply failing to recognizing that this 2015 release is an improvement.

                        I'll take a tired old hack of a multiprocessing engine over one that's "still in development & should be released soon".  I don't know much about the magic "behind" after effects (the code) so I'll take your word for it that needed to be thrown out and re-written,  I just think there should have been an aggressive attempt at informing users that this release was a Beta, a "work in progress".  That along with a strong suggestion that we continue using 2014 until they're able to finish what they started.

                        • 9. Re: Glacially Slow Rendering in After Effects CC 2015
                          Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          How about this?  In the future, it would probably be easier for me if Adobe didn't roll out new versions of their products before they're finished.  They're rewriting all the underlying code?  Wonderful.  They should FINISH WRITING IT before they release it.

                          Software is never finished. There are always more features to add and bugs to squash.

                           

                          I think I understand what you mean though, you mean software should at least be useable before it's released, right?

                           

                          The thing is, I actually appreciate the release of CC 2015. For many of my projects, it is useable. In fact, I've not worked in CC 2014 or earlier in my home studio since CC 2015 came out. The interface is much easier to use in CC 2015. In CC 2014 and earlier, if you made a change, often you'd have to wait for the render to release the processing thread in order for you to carry on working. That doesn't happen in CC 2015 at all, so I can move through projects more quickly.

                          Working with expression-heavy projects is also greatly improved. For example, try using Ouroboros in CC 2014 and CC 2015 and you'll notice a difference (and, if you've never heard of that particular add-on, you're welcome! ). Or, even better, delete a layer that 40 expressions reference in CC 2014 and then do the same thing in CC 2015. In CC 2014, you would have to click through at least 40 error windows before you could get back to work. In CC 2015, you can just carry on working! A huge improvement!

                           

                          The only thing I miss is the multiprocessing, but considering I had to switch it off in the past for a number of my projects anyway since it would foul them up (shading in Trapcode Particular, for example) or expressions and effects would disable it, I don't actually miss it that much. Actually, I don't miss it at ALL since we still have it in CC 2014 and you can open CC 2015 projects in CC 2014! It works great!

                           

                          I'm glad I don't have to wait until the next release to take advantage of the new features.

                           

                          Besides, nobody is forcing you to upgrade. If you don't like CC 2015, you can pretend it's not released and carry on using CC 2014!

                          But I would encourage folks to try using CC 2015 (especially now that they've fixed the major bugs).

                          • 10. Re: Glacially Slow Rendering in After Effects CC 2015
                            Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Paul wrote:

                             

                            Also it's unfortunate that Adobe chose this release, with it's completely rewritten code & serious changes (like no more multi core rendering) to start automatically uninstalling previous versions with nothing more than an inconspicuous little tick box to save the old versions.

                            I agree completely. This was a huge mistake.

                             

                            Paul wrote:
                            I just think there should have been an aggressive attempt at informing users that this release was a Beta, a "work in progress".  That along with a strong suggestion that we continue using 2014 until they're able to finish what they started.

                            There actually was a pretty aggressive attempt from the AE team and most folks in the AE blog/forum/Twitter world. /r/AfterEffects on Reddit and most other forums had sticky posts telling people both of those things, there was a banner across the top of this forum (and the Premiere forum) and the AE team wrote a number of blog posts about it as well.

                            Here: keeping previous versions installed when installing CC 2015 applications | After Effects region of interest

                            Here: features not available in After Effects CC 2015 (13.5) | After Effects region of interest

                            And here: all about previews in After Effects CC 2015 (13.5) | After Effects region of interest

                             

                            What would have been better was if it was more prominent in the Creative Cloud software and on the Adobe website. But that's the fault of Adobe, not the After Effects team.

                            As you're new to Adobe, you probably don't realize how tiny After Effects is compared to the giant that is Adobe. This picture from the After Effects World Conference in 2014 shows nearly the entire AE team, including software engineering, quality engineering, marketing, UI design, and product management. Compare that to the vast number of credits for Photoshop alone! I'm not saying this to suggest that we should give Adobe some slack - I'm of the opposite opinion; they need to value their AE customers more and listen to their product teams more - I just wanted to point out that the AE team is on our side on this issue too!

                            • 11. Re: Glacially Slow Rendering in After Effects CC 2015
                              Gutter-Fish Level 4

                              I understand.  I am not blaming the dev team of incompetence.  I understand a little about coding in general and am aware of the complexities of writing code that is dynamic enough to function in a stab;e manner across the infinite possibly hardware configurations.   I mean why not just a statement saying something like....

                               

                              "Dear valued customer, we are currently in the process of completely overhauling the underlying code of After Effects in order to bring you a better experience and state of the art product.  For that reason there will be no 2015 release of After Effects.  We apologise...ect, ect,  but our goal is to deliver the best product we can.  Thanks you for undersranding.    If you would like to be part of the Beta program for this upcoming release you can download it HERE "

                               

                              That's all it would have taken.   No sore butts, no pressure on the dev team, no flaming.  And I didn't even go to college!!!  Never even finished high school. I just possess common sense and a tendency to think about how my decisions will effect others

                              • 12. Re: Glacially Slow Rendering in After Effects CC 2015
                                banannatran Level 1

                                Hey guys, I recently wrapped up a project where I'd experienced some rather significant render time increases using the 2015.3 release of AE, I'd still been operating on 2014 at home due in part to laziness and part hesitation based on what I'd heard from other users with plugin compatibility and sluggishness. I had anticipated however that these issues would have been resolved over time or at least by the time the next release (2017) had dropped which is why I was so surprised how bad it was.

                                 

                                I had about a week including the thanksgiving holiday off so I decided to install After Effects '15 and '17 in conjunction with '14 including my most regularly used plugins (Trapcode, VCP Element, Saber, OF, Magic Bullet, Plexus, RealGlow and a few other odds n ends) and do some render testing. (yeah I know, I really need to get a life)

                                 

                                So just to preface this and try and avoid anyone showing up with a flaming torch, this test was strictly from a rendering perspective. (I did however experience the same in-tool preview and editing sluggishness, nothing measured but more or less the same preview render time and setting adjustment lag) all drivers updated, versions updated, caches cleared before each render. Our lovely test subject is a very special however now vintage i7 3960x, 32Gb DDR3, EVGA 780Ti, OCZ revodrive3 rig I use occasionally for offloading renders too. I apologize if its not quite as beefy as some of you may have, but I had my other computer bogged with something else, at least it was able to give me a consistent baseline and as I've come to realize... she's still got a few tricks up her sleeves, quite the head turner.

                                 

                                As I'm sure many of you may already know there are no longer multi-frame rendering options in AE 2015 or AE 2017. I saw right off the bat basically a double in render time between 2014 with multi-frame rendering and 2014 without, no big deal... I know some folks had experienced issues with this feature on, some never even knew it existed or what it did, Hell, I'm not even 100% it does exactly as what it suggests or if I even entirely comprehend that description, but i digress... AE 2015 with the same scene took about 22 seconds longer and AE 2017 took an additional 17 seconds past the AE 2015 render-time.  The scene was a 1080p 30FPS :02 clip QT ProRes 422 export. It consisted of single layer with Element 3D with a Joint Strike fighter spinning and banking full spec with AA, motion blur, scene lighting and environment, another two layers with both Trapcode Form and Particular with Motion Blur in various emission and displacement configurations, VCP optical flares, an instance of Saber and just to round it off a relatively simple Plexus instance with a primitive geo sphere and beam tracer spinning. (I'd intended to add more bells and whistles but this was getting pretty heavy already). On my assignment I'd just wrapped, we'd ended up resorting to BG Render Pro and queueing that up multiple times on the same box to in essence try and recapture the magic of multi-frame rendering again. It is however an additional expense and based on what I'm seeing, these newest iterations of AE are quite a bit slower that even with the extra effort required to setup multiple instances of BG render you may not get the same speed as 2014 (render wise).

                                 

                                I'm sure there are countless other tests that can be done with a whole host of different features such as using a combination of time-remapped layers or multi layered EXR composites or working in 16 or 32 bit color spaces or complex shape layer animations or fractal noise and displacements, distortions, etc. The volume of combinations and scenarios is making my brain ache and my liver thirsty. At the end of the day its hard to even know how to benchmark production as a whole, there are so many combinations of tools and features and workflows. For all I know, there may be a whole slew of effects that have been reworked that more quickly calculate and preview in authoring environment than previous versions which could (in theory) make up for the difference in the now clearly visible render-time extensions. I know with GPU leverage becoming the forefront of everyone's focus lately, the idea of faster authoring and preview for quicker iteration has become more of a priority over final frame calculation speed or at least the way I'm seeing things. Maybe the GPU thing isn't working right or isn't ready or maybe their trying to rebuild but in any case, I'm still very much a 2014 user for the multicore rendering, hopefully they can address this, especially for anyone who's invested tens of thousands into multi-cpu rigs anticipating the bottleneck wouldn't be their software.