15 Replies Latest reply on Sep 1, 2015 7:32 PM by ColdForest

    Samsung Galaxy Note 5

    ColdForest Level 1

      I haven't seen any discussion on this yet and honestly don't have any experience with Lightroom and its support for Samsung phones (although I do use LR Mobile on my Galaxy tablet), but I'm wondering if anyone might be able to comment on the likelihood of LR supporting the Note 5 anytime soon?

       

      Beyond the general Note 5 support I'm also curious whether anyone has any thoughts on the likelihood of RAW support ever coming to LR mobile? Admitedly there are only a few phones that appear to support RAW capture (e.g., Nexus, LG G4?) - and unfortunately the Note 5 does not - but it seems this will happen at some point. Anyone have any feedback on why phone manufacturers seem reticent to do this (is this a storage issue primarily?)? At one point this was becuase RAW capture was simply not supported in Android, but this is no longer true (for v5+ phones anyway).

       

      Anyway, just thought I'd put this out there for discussion.

        • 1. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          It's highly unlikely Adobe will offer raw image file processing support in Lightroom Mobile or the full version of Lightroom. Tablets and phones simply don't have the processing power, which is why Adobe developed Lightroom Mobile using Smart Previews: https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/help/lightroom-smart-previews.html

          • 2. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
            ColdForest Level 1

            Hi Todd, thanks.

             

            I have questions about the the (in)ability for mobile apps to provide RAW editing capability due to processing power limitations on modern mobile devices (not the least of which is the ability for some of these apps to use server-side compute power to perform more processing intensive operations - some of which may be required for RAW processing). However, more immediate is probably this post that indicates the DNG file type is supported in LR mobile for Android devices running Android 5.0+:http://www.androidcentral.com/adobe-adds-dng-raw-file-support-lightroom-android. This link also suggests the DNG file type is supported on Android devices: https://helpx.adobe.com/mobile-apps/help/lightroom-mobile-faq.html. Doesn't this all suggest that RAW images captured on recent Android devices would be directly supported in LR mobile?

             

            Finally, just wondering if anyone else had any comments on what the typical turnaround time is for LR (mobile) support of newly released smart phones (i.e., Note 5 specifically)?

            • 3. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              ColdForest wrote:

               

              Hi Todd, thanks.

               

              I have questions about the the (in)ability for mobile apps to provide RAW editing capability due to processing power limitations on modern mobile devices (not the least of which is the ability for some of these apps to use server-side compute power to perform more processing intensive operations - some of which may be required for RAW processing).

              Server-side app hosting is a possibility, but I'm not aware of anyone offering or developing that for LR at this time.

               

              ColdForest wrote:

              However, more immediate is probably this post that indicates the DNG file type is supported in LR mobile for Android devices running Android 5.0+:http://www.androidcentral.com/adobe-adds-dng-raw-file-support-lightroom-android. This link also suggests the DNG file type is supported on Android devices: https://helpx.adobe.com/mobile-apps/help/lightroom-mobile-faq.html. Doesn't this all suggest that RAW images captured on recent Android devices would be directly supported in LR mobile?

              Yes, it wouldn't certainly seem to be the case. My guess is that the DNG file's embedded JPEG preview is used during editing inside LR Mobile and not actually the raw data. You mention that you have LR Mobile on your Galaxy tablet. Try uploading some DNGs and let us know what you find out.

              • 4. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                ColdForest Level 1

                trshaner wrote:

                ColdForest wrote:

                However, more immediate is probably this post that indicates the DNG file type is supported in LR mobile for Android devices running Android 5.0+:http://www.androidcentral.com/adobe-adds-dng-raw-file-support-lightroom-android. This link also suggests the DNG file type is supported on Android devices: https://helpx.adobe.com/mobile-apps/help/lightroom-mobile-faq.html. Doesn't this all suggest that RAW images captured on recent Android devices would be directly supported in LR mobile?

                Yes, it wouldn't certainly seem to be the case. My guess is that the DNG file's embedded JPEG preview is used during editing inside LR Mobile and not actually the raw data. You mention that you have LR Mobile on your Galaxy tablet. Try uploading some DNGs and let us know what you find out.

                Sure, I guess I can try this on my tablet, although it's not super convenient as this is an older tablet (pre-Android 5). I believe this would require converting a RAW file (NEF in my case) to DNG (via the DNG converter on my desktop), uploading it to my table (via Google Drive or some such), importing it into my camera roll, and then having LR mobile access it (and hopefully LR mobile on Android 4.4 is able to support this)...

                 

                Perhaps there might be someone from Adobe that could confirm or deny this workflow/LR mobile capability? I think I've seen others on this forum asking about this question (i.e., Android LR mobile RAW/DNG support) as well (and I'm not sure I've seen any kind of response indicating this is all possible)...

                • 5. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                  ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  I am able to adjust absolute WB of a DNG converted from a CR2 from my 7D Mark II on my Galaxy S6 phone that I copied directly to the phone local storage before the image was even uploaded to the cloud, yet.  To me this suggests I am editing raw data in the DNG on my phone, not a smart-preview proxy from my desktop LR or the embedded JPG preview.

                  Sidesync_capture_20150823153543_1.jpg

                  • 6. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    A DNG already has the Adobe-compatible Camera Profile embedded in it.  A native raw files does not, so just because DNGs are supported, doesn't mean native raw files from the phone would be, unless the phone, itself, is producing DNGs which would have an Adobe profile embedded in themselves.

                    • 7. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                      ColdForest Level 1

                      ssprengel wrote:

                       

                      I am able to adjust absolute WB of a DNG converted from a CR2 from my 7D Mark II on my Galaxy S6 phone that I copied directly to the phone local storage before the image was even uploaded to the cloud, yet.  To me this suggests I am editing raw data in the DNG on my phone, not a smart-preview proxy from my desktop LR or the embedded JPG preview.

                      Aha, that is encouraging! [See my next reply as well]

                      • 8. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                        ColdForest Level 1

                        ssprengel wrote:

                         

                        A DNG already has the Adobe-compatible Camera Profile embedded in it.  A native raw files does not, so just because DNGs are supported, doesn't mean native raw files from the phone would be, unless the phone, itself, is producing DNGs which would have an Adobe profile embedded in themselves.

                        Right, and yes, this is the other aspect (i.e., whether the phone has the ability to generate DNGs on its own). I doubt most phones that support RAW capture support DNG natively, but I can't be sure. Obviuosly if the DNG converter were availabe on Android this would allow for the ability to edit directly LR mobile without first converting the phone's RAW captures offline (this would be seriously inconvenient).

                         

                        As it stands, if this is indeed supported as you've discovered then it seems full end-to-end work flow support of RAW (i.e., DNG) files between LR desktop and LR mobile would be a reasonable evolution, no?

                        • 9. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          ssprengel wrote:

                           

                          I am able to adjust absolute WB of a DNG from my 7D Mark II on my Galaxy S6 phone local storage before the image was even uploaded to the cloud, yet.  To me this suggests I am editing raw data in the DNG on my phone, not a smart-preview proxy from my desktop LR or the embedded JPG preview:

                          OK, good to know. I guess with noise reduction, lens profile, and numerous other adjustments stripped out LR Mobile editing performs OK on and android processor. I've got a Samsung Note Pro 12.2", but from what I understand the current LR Mobile for Android GUI is optimized for smaller phone screens.

                          • 10. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                            trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            ColdForest wrote:

                            As it stands, if this is indeed supported as you've discovered then it seems full end-to-end work flow support of RAW (i.e., DNG) files between LR desktop and LR mobile would be a reasonable evolution, no?

                            Just some thoughts. The larger DNG files (~10x) makes synching via the Cloud a lengthy process. It also requires significantly greater (~10x) storage on the handheld. For example 1,000 25 MB DNG files requires 25 GB of storage and synching at a connection speed of 2 MB/sec it will take ~ 3.5 hours through the Cloud. Unless Adobe supports local synching via USB or WiFi connection between the hand-held and desktop it doesn't seem to practical.

                             

                            Another issue is hand-held color management and screen calibration. If the hand-held screen isn't calibrated to match the desktop it's impossible to make proper tone and color adjustments. So while it may be possible to do some editing of raw images (DNGs) with LR Mobile it's certainly not going to be a full end-to-end workflow within the near future. Using LR Mobile for processing your hand-held camera's DNGs might make sense. For anything else Smart Previews seem to be a better solution at this point in time. I'm open to all suggestions and comments.

                            • 11. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                              ColdForest Level 1
                              ColdForest wrote:

                              As it stands, if this is indeed supported as you've discovered then it seems full end-to-end work flow support of RAW (i.e., DNG) files between LR desktop and LR mobile would be a reasonable evolution, no?

                              Just some thoughts. The larger DNG files (~10x) makes synching via the Cloud a lengthy process. It also requires significantly greater (~10x) storage on the handheld. For example 1,000 25 MB DNG files requires 25 GB of storage and synching at a connection speed of 2 MB/sec it will take ~ 3.5 hours through the Cloud. Unless Adobe supports local synching via USB or WiFi connection between the hand-held and desktop it doesn't seem to practical.

                              Yes, this is true. Keeping many large files like these on the handheld isn't any kind of long term solution. But this shouldn't detract from the overall usefulness of editing raw captures on the phone/tablet. See below.

                              Another issue is hand-held color management and screen calibration. If the hand-held screen isn't calibrated to match the desktop it's impossible to make proper tone and color adjustments. So while it may be possible to do some editing of raw images (DNGs) with LR Mobile it's certainly not going to be a full end-to-end workflow within the near future. Using LR Mobile for processing your hand-held camera's DNGs might make sense. For anything else Smart Previews seem to be a better solution at this point in time. I'm open to all suggestions and comments.

                              The end-to-end workflow I was suggesting didn't mean to include keeping the raw images on the device indefinitely, or even completing final edits there. LR mobile should include support for editing raw images originating on the phone/tablet and should also include some ability/support for transfering these files (DNGs) to the desktop (either via the cloud or via wireless/USB as you suggest). Once in the desktop library these same files could then be available to LR mobile in a more convenient format (smart previews?). It seems reasonable to think that LR mobile could recognize these scenarios and treat them appropriately. In the end this just seems to me to be a natural requirement for users that want to edit raw image data in LR mobile (both originating on the phont/tablet and also synced raw files from the desktop).

                              • 12. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                ColdForest wrote:

                                 

                                LR mobile should include support for editing raw images originating on the phone/tablet and should also include some ability/support for transfering these files (DNGs) to the desktop (either via the cloud or via wireless/USB as you suggest). Once in the desktop library these same files could then be available to LR mobile in a more convenient format (smart previews?).

                                As it mentions that you must have Android Lollipop Version 5 OS installed (now v5.0.2) for DNG support. Like I said, "Using LR Mobile for processing your hand-held camera's DNGs might make sense."

                                 

                                The solution I'd like to see is a way to manage both native DNGs and camera raw files in the field using only the hand-held device with LR Mobile. My Note Pro has a micro SD card slot ( up to128 GB card support) and I can use a USB 3.0 hub to transfer camera raw files between the hand-held and an external hard drive (exFAT formatted). Now all I need is support in LR Mobile for camera raw files. I agree it's not necessary to be able to fully process raw image files. Support for review, rating, keyword, and cataloging would be great.

                                • 13. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                                  danb98086942

                                  I just got a note 5 and was having issues getting LR mobile to recognize the dng files created by the camera in pro mode . What I found was if I moved the dng files into a folder by themselves LR  recognized them not sure if that helps anyone or not but thought I would throw it out there

                                  • 14. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                                    ColdForest Level 1

                                    The solution I'd like to see is a way to manage both native DNGs and camera raw files in the field using only the hand-held device with LR Mobile. My Note Pro has a micro SD card slot ( up to128 GB card support) and I can use a USB 3.0 hub to transfer camera raw files between the hand-held and an external hard drive (exFAT formatted). Now all I need is support in LR Mobile for camera raw files. I agree it's not necessary to be able to fully process raw image files. Support for review, rating, keyword, and cataloging would be great.

                                    I found the following discussion (from April '14) interesting: http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/04/the-field-triage-opportunity-for-lr-mobile .html

                                    • 15. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                                      trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      That article was written April 11. 2014 (1.5 years ago) and only discusses iPad usage. It also talks about bandwidth required to sync the larger raw files to the Cloud and states, "And that transfer to the desktop should occur without a kludgey, manual copy and link-to-original workflow from the CF or SD card." The editor Tom Hogarty is saying you will need to sync the raw files on the hand-held through the Cloud to get them on your desktop......to keep it simple. IMHO there's no need for this in a single-user field-to-desktop workflow. Once returned from the field Import the raw files on memory cards into the LR desktop/laptop just as you are doing now. Then sync the LR mobile Smart Previews on the handheld to the Cloud, sync LR desktop/laptop with LR Mobile, and associate the two image sets from inside LR desktop. It ain't rocket-science folks–We put a man on the moon in 1969 using mobile flight computer equipment with significantly less capability than today's hand-held devices!

                                       

                                      Here's a field solution for reviewing, rating, and keywording from a previous posting. Technically you could also make Develop edits if your raw+JPEG images look near identical in LR with the default Develop settings, but that's rarely the case.

                                       

                                      Using Lightroom Mobile as travel downloader/editor

                                      • 16. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                                        ColdForest Level 1

                                        trshaner wrote:

                                         

                                        That article was written April 11. 2014 (1.5 years ago) and only discusses iPad usage. It also talks about bandwidth required to sync the larger raw files to the Cloud and states, "And that transfer to the desktop should occur without a kludgey, manual copy and link-to-original workflow from the CF or SD card." The editor Tom Hogarty is saying you will need to sync the raw files on the hand-held through the Cloud to get them on your desktop......to keep it simple. IMHO there's no need for this in a single-user field-to-desktop workflow. Once returned from the field Import the raw files on memory cards into the LR desktop/laptop just as you are doing now. Then sync the LR mobile Smart Previews on the handheld to the Cloud, sync LR desktop/laptop with LR Mobile, and associate the two image sets from inside LR desktop. It ain't rocket-science folks–We put a man on the moon in 1969 using mobile flight computer equipment with significantly less capability than today's hand-held devices!

                                        Yes, I understand the referenced article is from 1.5yrs ago; my reason for including it in this thread is that I found it interesting that this type of discussion has been going on for, what I consider to be, a long time(!). I've been using LR for years and Ive only recently started to experiment/think about how LR mobile might fit into my workflow. I see lots of benefits here and, indeed, have used several of these. However, I've also had lingering questions with some of it that I haven't seen adequately/simply addressed (the sequence you describe above just seems klunky to me*). Other questions have been answered (e.g., ability to edit/process DNG/raw files from the handheld in LR mobile). One other, more minor, question still remains (i.e., when might LR CC explicitly support the Note5?).

                                         

                                        * With the advent/availability of cloud-based backup solutions I see no reason to categorically exclude the ability to provide syncing of handheld DNG/raw files through LR mobile/CC and back down to the desktop. This eliminates all the acrobatics associated with the sequence you describe above (including the "associate the two image sets" step, which to me just sounds cumbersome and inefficient). Of course there are caveats here related to bandwidth/volume, but my personal use would include moderate numbers of handheld files (the bulk of my "in-the-field" captures are still done with my D750). I also fully recognize the other options: peer-to-peer WiFi between the handheld and the desktop, SD card to desktop (for handhelds that have SD cards - the Note5 doesn't), etc..

                                         

                                        Here's a field solution for reviewing, rating, and keywording from a previous posting. Technically you could also make Develop edits if your raw+JPEG images look near identical in LR with the default Develop settings, but that's rarely the case.

                                         

                                        Using Lightroom Mobile as travel downloader/editor

                                        Bringing another device (laptop) while traveling is a non-starter for me . I would just like to do as much with the handheld captures as possible and have these be available via sync when I get back home. Actually, this would also be super useful for typical day-to-day shooting with the handheld - i.e., if these captures synced automatically with LR mobile then they'd be collectively available on the desktop the next time this was available (and LR CC syncing from the cloud completed). So these are just my simple thoughts regarding how I'd like to see LR CC/LR mobile work given my workflow/use case (and with the new Android DNG capability and with newly available, high performance handhelds like the Note5). I'd be a little surprised if there weren't other casual handheld photographers that didn't also think this simple workflow would be very useful.

                                        • 17. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          ColdForest wrote:

                                           

                                          * With the advent/availability of cloud-based backup solutions I see no reason to categorically exclude the ability to provide syncing of handheld DNG/raw files through LR mobile/CC and back down to the desktop.

                                           

                                          We're on the same page!

                                           

                                          I wasn't inferring that raw file syncing should be "excluded." If the raw files are already on the handheld why not offer the "option" to sync them locally (USB, WiFi).......or via the Cloud. Does that make sense?

                                           

                                          Unless you have a specific need (i.e. multiple workstations, multiple users) why store (i.e. copy) raw files in the Cloud? If and when Adobe offers support for raw files in LR Mobile I suspect there will be a limit placed on Cloud storage capacity with paid options to increase it.

                                           

                                          I've been in the Technology business for 45+ years and seen companies go under due to "unprofitable" business decisions. Adobe has to weigh the cost to develop, implement, and support additional Cloud infrastructure versus what customers will pay to use it.

                                          • 18. Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5
                                            ColdForest Level 1

                                            trshaner wrote:


                                            I wasn't inferring that raw file syncing should be "excluded." If the raw files are already on the handheld why not offer the "option" to sync them locally (USB, WiFi).......or via the Cloud. Does that make sense?

                                             

                                            Yep .

                                             

                                            Unless you have a specific need (i.e. multiple workstations, multiple users) why store (i.e. copy) raw files in the Cloud? If and when Adobe offers support for raw files in LR Mobile I suspect there will be a limit placed on Cloud storage capacity with paid options to increase it.

                                             

                                            Storing in the cloud just makes the integration more complete in my mind (and Adobe does apparently support DNG[/raw] files in LR Mobile).

                                             

                                            I've been in the Technology business for 45+ years and seen companies go under due to "unprofitable" business decisions. Adobe has to weigh the cost to develop, implement, and support additional Cloud infrastructure versus what customers will pay to use it.

                                             

                                            Absolutely, ROI is always front and centre in these situations. I'm not holding my breath on any of the above, especially given Adobe's attention to other (forgotten requests for) features in LR ("Book" module anyone ??), but I'm still hopefully/optimistic...