7 Replies Latest reply: Nov 30, 2006 10:48 AM by jeffbruce RSS

    Streaming vs Progressive Download

    jeffbruce Community Member
      I am trying to find an answer to something that I posted to the "Flash Media Server" forum. That seems like the most relevant forum but gets a lot less traffic than the General forum.

      Can anyone with streaming / pd experience provide any insight? Please post to the other forum...

      I apologize if this is conidered cross-posting, but I have yet to see the preferred method of dealing with topics that fit under multiple forums. I have read lots of complaints of cross-posting, but no solutions. And "post and stick to it" as I have read on occasion is simply lame...

        • 1. Re: Streaming vs Progressive Download
          Newsgroup_User Community Member
          I didn't go and look at the post on the Media Server forum but here is a
          blog entry I made just the other day about the subject:
          http://www.smithmediafusion.com/blog/?p=201


          --

          Dan Mode
          --> Adobe Community Expert
          *Flash Helps* http://www.smithmediafusion.com/blog/?cat=11
          *THE online Radio* http://www.tornadostream.com
          *Must Read* http://www.smithmediafusion.com/blog


          "jeffbruce" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
          news:ekkcce$ru2$1@forums.macromedia.com...
          >I am trying to find an answer to something that I
          > http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/messageview.cfm?forumid=15&catid=57
          > 8&threadid=1218295&enterthread=y to the "Flash Media Server" forum. That
          > seems
          > like the most relevant forum but gets a lot less traffic than the General
          > forum.
          >
          > Can anyone with streaming / pd experience provide any insight? Please post
          > to
          > the other forum...
          >
          > I apologize if this is conidered cross-posting, but I have yet to see the
          > preferred method of dealing with topics that fit under multiple forums. I
          > have
          > read lots of complaints of cross-posting, but no solutions. And "post and
          > stick
          > to it" as I have read on occasion is simply lame...
          >
          >
          >


          • 2. Re: Streaming vs Progressive Download
            jeffbruce Community Member
            Dan,

            I appreciate the article but I was really looking for a little more. I believe I fully understand the theoretical differences. What I'm looking for is real world experience.

            I had actually already read your blog while researching.
            • 3. Re: Streaming vs Progressive Download
              Nickels55 Community Member
              I can only tell you about progressive streaming. My company has some videos that are all 20 minutes long. I split them into 5 minute chapters, because that helped to decrease the file size. Each chapter is about 15 megs in size - and the videos are 480x360 on the webpage.

              With Progressive streaming the FULL flv file is downloaded to the users cache, regardless of how much they want to see. I believe with streaming there is no cache, so only a partial amount of data is downloaded per user. The fact that you have videos over 10 minutes long and in high quality, you're talking about 25 megs of bandwidth per user. How much bandwidth does your server support?

              In the end you are probably better off going with progressive streaming at first, and if the load is too much on the servers then switch to true media streaming.
              • 4. Re: Streaming vs Progressive Download
                Newsgroup_User Community Member
                Jeff,

                are you looking at whether or not to get a streaming server?

                how many files will you have on the site? how often will you be
                adding/updating these? how many users will be visiting the site each day?


                --

                Dan Mode
                --> Adobe Community Expert
                *Flash Helps* http://www.smithmediafusion.com/blog/?cat=11
                *THE online Radio* http://www.tornadostream.com
                *Must Read* http://www.smithmediafusion.com/blog



                "jeffbruce" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                news:ekkp4t$e36$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                > Dan,
                >
                > I appreciate the article but I was really looking for a little more. I
                > believe
                > I fully understand the theoretical differences. What I'm looking for is
                > real
                > world experience.
                >
                > I had actually already read your blog while researching.
                >


                • 5. Re: Streaming vs Progressive Download
                  jeffbruce Community Member
                  No. We have already chosen a company for serving media content. We can choose streaming or pd.

                  Using the custom player I wrote, I need to do some more work to support streaming (low level player functionality from Macromedia is not so great...). I was looking for justification as to why we should or shouldn't invest more time into player development. There are other reasons for choosing PD, such as, if we expect people to play the content repeatedly and we are paying per MB served, PD can be *significantly* cheaper.

                  To answer your other questions:
                  - 100-1000 files
                  - updated every day
                  - hard to say the number of users. for a similar project for this client they were seeing 1000-5000 hits per day
                  • 6. Re: Streaming vs Progressive Download
                    Newsgroup_User Community Member
                    OK makes sense Jeff. Now what was your original question?


                    --

                    Dan Mode
                    --> Adobe Community Expert
                    *Flash Helps* http://www.smithmediafusion.com/blog/?cat=11
                    *THE online Radio* http://www.tornadostream.com
                    *Must Read* http://www.smithmediafusion.com/blog


                    "jeffbruce" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                    news:ekl0st$mn3$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                    > No. We have already chosen a company for serving media content. We can
                    > choose
                    > streaming or pd.
                    >
                    > Using the custom player I wrote, I need to do some more work to support
                    > streaming (low level player functionality from Macromedia is not so
                    > great...).
                    > I was looking for justification as to why we should or shouldn't invest
                    > more
                    > time into player development. There are other reasons for choosing PD,
                    > such as,
                    > if we expect people to play the content repeatedly and we are paying per
                    > MB
                    > served, PD can be *significantly* cheaper.
                    >
                    > To answer your other questions:
                    > - 100-1000 files
                    > - updated every day
                    > - hard to say the number of users. for a similar project for this client
                    > they
                    > were seeing 1000-5000 hits per day
                    >


                    • 7. Re: Streaming vs Progressive Download
                      jeffbruce Community Member
                      Here is my original post:

                      Has anyone evaluated the performance difference between the 2 delivery methods? I believe I understand the differences between the 2, and am trying to decide whether streaming is "worth it".

                      I don't need seeking, and I don't care whether the content (FLV) is cached. Initially I thought PD would be my choice. However, after reading:

                      http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/articles/flv_download.html

                      3 of the listed "advantages" stand out. Specifically:

                      quote:

                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      1. Deliver long files—for example, video clips over 10 minutes long
                      2. Deliver video to many viewers—for example, a hundred or more simultaneous viewers
                      3. Have advanced features such as bandwidth detection or quality-of-service monitoring for delivering the best possible experience

                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                      In my project:
                      1. Some of the videos I have are long (over 10 minutes). Why is streaming better for long videos?
                      2. I don't know how many simultaneous users I will have. Let's say that it is a hundred or more. Why is streaming better? I will be using a major "streaming media" provider which will do either FCS or HTTP. Since they have major amounts of bandwidth, won't either method support lots and lots of simultaneous users? Anyone have real world numbers on how many simultaneous streams/PD connections can be supported on a given server?
                      3. The experience watching these videos (good looking video and smooth playback) are the MOST important aspect. The compression is the same regardless of which delivery method is used, so "image quality" should be the same, right? As far as smooth playback goes, has anyone done practical tests that say for "x" number of people simultaneously accessing a server, performance problems occurred "y" percent of the time using the 2 delivery methods?

                      I'm hoping better to understand from a PRACTICAL and FACTUAL standpoint why I should choose streaming. Or is the only thing I have to go on the "theoretical"? I'm also a bit suspicous that much of what I have read is simply marketing hype.

                      I would really appreciate any advice or insight, especially from people that use both methods.