9 Replies Latest reply on Sep 18, 2015 11:44 AM by trshaner

    Canon 5Ds R. LR makes a poor figure.

    Almdudler

      I have just got this Camera. Have only taken around 500 pictures. On  the other hand this camera performs like my 5D MKIII in most respects. When I get a new Canon I will sooner or later compare it with Canons DPP. Just to check that Adobes handling of the raw-file lives up to the real experts Canon, that knows all details about the raw.

      Earlier testa have always proved that Adobe are so close that it would not make any sense to run DPP with its worse workflow.

       

      But not this time. With the new 5Ds R, DPP outperformance LR totally. Lr most have problems wit the demosaicing and rendering. It is similar to the Fuji X-trans problems.

      LR just can't resolve the details and micro contrast.

      DPP renders a better result for all pictures that I have tested. Even thou I am not used to DPP and have used LR since beta 1.

      So I wonder what Adobe is going to do about it. Will it take 3 years like it did for X-trans before you find the bug?

       

      DPP vs. LR.jpg

        • 1. Re: Canon 5Ds R. LR makes a poor figure.
          Pete.Green Adobe Employee

          Hi Almdudler,

           

          Sorry bout the blurry images. Are all images taken from this camera looking this way in LR?

          Does Camera Raw in Photoshop see the images the same way (blurry)?

           

          Which version of Lightroom are you using? Mac or Win?

           

          Regards,

          Pete

          • 2. Re: Canon 5Ds R. LR makes a poor figure.
            Pete.Green Adobe Employee

            Also, would be curious if the previews are generated the same way if you were to delete the Previews.lrdata file located in the same directory as your Catalog.

             

            You can also do it from the LR Preferences as well, Some more info on that here: Why And How To Clear Your Lightroom Cache | Lightroom Fanatic

             

            Let us know if fresh previews have the same blur.

            Regards,

            Pete

            • 3. Re: Canon 5Ds R. LR makes a poor figure.
              Almdudler Level 1

              I am sorry these are no previews. They are screen dumps from LR comparing 1:1 details from DPP and LR.

              Are you working for Adobe or just pulling my leg?

              • 4. Re: Canon 5Ds R. LR makes a poor figure.
                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                You are using X|Y compare mode in your screen shot.  This is a function of the Library module.  Library shows cached previews.  An Adobe Staff member has asked you to clear the cache and regenerate the preview and see if things are different.  Seems like a reasonable request.

                 

                In my opinion LR is not doing anything different than with other standard Bayer sensor cameras like most Canons would be.  The difference is that your sensor is higher resolution, so the pixels are smaller in proportion to the resolving resolution of your lens and the underlying per-pixel sharpness is less because the lens has reached its sharpness limit.  The difference with DPP is that it is sharpening details larger than the pixel size, oversharpening in my opinion, especially in the out-of-focus background if you look, whereas your LR settings are set to oversharpen the pixel-difference details using too much of the Sharpen Detail slider.  Turn that down to 0 and adjust the Sharpen Radius to larger and also add some Lum NR since I'm sure the camera has.

                 

                If you want to supply a raw image it'd be easier to make suggestions based on actual settings we're trying on your image.

                • 5. Re: Canon 5Ds R. LR makes a poor figure.
                  BKKDon Level 4

                  From what I see in this image it is the Sharpening settings in DPP.

                   

                  With images from my 5Ds R if I turn off sharpening in DPP, which defaults to 'UnSharp Mask', Strength=3, Fineness=4 and Threshold=4 I get the same result.

                   

                  I find for hair, fur etc set the LR sharpening to 50, Radius 0.8, Detail 40 and Masking about 40 you will get a sharper image than DPP which tends to almost give a slight 'oroton glow'effect.

                  • 6. Re: Canon 5Ds R. LR makes a poor figure.
                    Keith_Reeder Level 4

                    Looking at the image full sized (it doesn't "pop up" at full size), the Lr image is definitely more noisy - but how do we know that's not down to you using less than optimal NR settings in Lr, Almdudler?

                    • 7. Re: Canon 5Ds R. LR makes a poor figure.
                      Almdudler Level 1

                      I am not worrying about the noise. It is that DPP brings out the detail much better that LR that I see as a problem. If I take var e of the noise I will get even less details.

                      • 8. Re: Canon 5Ds R. LR makes a poor figure.
                        ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Adobe’s algorithms haven’t changed and neither has the Canon raw data other than its higher resolution with respect to the lens sharpness.  DPP may be doing something different because, after all, Canon gets a new chance at changing its raw processing algorithms every camera model and DPP knows what all those variations are.

                         

                        Noise-reduction matters because it obscures the details that you’re saying aren’t as prominent in the Adobe version.

                         

                        I personally dislike the Canon treatment.  It’s oversharpened and there is usually some multi-pixel-wide sharpening halo visible, an Orton-glow effect as another respondent called it. 

                         

                        The background has a false sharpness to the details that should be out of focus.  There is a slight motion blur to the tiger and this also obscures some of the details.  Just because Canon’s sharpening radius is larger than the slight motion blur doesn’t mean it’s correct.

                         

                        The bottom line is Adobe isn’t doing anything different while Canon may or may not be doing anything different.  If Canon is, it doesn’t mean Adobe has to change their processing across all Bayer-layout cameras.

                        • 9. Re: Canon 5Ds R. LR makes a poor figure.
                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          There was a similar discussion here  Re: Rendering of RAW images in LR5 vs Canon Digital Photo Professional. The 5Ds R sensor utilizes two LPFs that cancel each other making it prone to moire, which can cause loss of detail or "smearing" of fine image detail. It appears DPP is doing some additional processing during demosaicng to eliminate moire'. That said the posted LR image can probably be improved on with a little more work in the LR Develop module.

                           

                          DPP4 vs LR CC 2015.jpg