11 Replies Latest reply on Sep 22, 2015 7:39 AM by A.T. Romano

    problems with Quality vs Filesize in Exporting to YouTube in 1080p

    chrisk39776543 Level 1

      Hi,

       

      I used to use NCH's videopad as a started editor. It had shocking performance but gave really good quality and small file sizes.

      ie I could export 1080p 30 min video in good quality for YouTube in file size of less than 2Gb, but Premiere Elements can't

      get anywhere near the same quality even at 4Gb.

       

      So what I need is for someone to tell me the settings I need.

       

      Currently I'm exporting shadowplay footage recorded in 1080 60 fps 50Mbits (according to shadowplay).

      If I export at AVCH (whatever) with YouTube Widescreen HD - set it to match source I just cannot

      get good quality. I even set the target to 20 and the other to 18 and it's still grainy quality and filesizes

      of 4Gb. The only way I can get the same quality I was getting from Videopad is with a 7Gb file in elements.

       

      Today I've been trying to export one video (30 mins) and all day I've been trying to find a good setting, and

      every setting gets me grainy footage.

       

      So can someone please just give me all the detailed settings I need (without the jargon) please.

       

      The problem is that wtih file sizes like this it drops my uploads to my channel by over a half because

      of my data usage limits.

       

      Thanks

       

      NeonsStyle

        • 1. Re: problems with Quality vs Filesize in Exporting to YouTube in 1080p
          A.T. Romano Level 7

          chrisk

           

          What version of Premiere Elements and on what computer operating system is it running?

           

          For now I will assume Premiere Elements 13/13.1 on Windows 7, 8, 8.1, or 10.1 64 bit.

           

          The best results for 1080p60 Timeline export to file for upload to YouTube at YouTube web site would be expected using...

           

          Publish+Share

          Computer

          AVCHD

          with Presets = MP4 H.264 1920 x 1080p30

          and then customize the preset under its Advanced Button/Video Tab, experimenting with the target and maximum bitrate with regard to file size and quality

          Capture.JPG

           

          If you are after a dramatically smaller file size that cannot be dealt with the bitrate considerations, you could look at a Windows Media Video 9.wmv, but I am not expecting you to get the quality of the AVCHD.mp4 1080p60 when viewed on YouTube

          Publish+Share

          Computer

          Windows Media

          with Presets = WMV - 720 x 480 16x9 29.97 and then customize the preset under its Advanced Button/Video Tab

          Capture2.JPG

          If you have not already, please check out the YouTube document

          Recommended upload encoding settings (Advanced) - YouTube Help

           

          The goal is to find the bitrate which is a compromise between quality and file size. This bitrate is not the same of each video.

           

          Please review and consider and supply more information, including if you are looking at the quality of the export from each program before and after it arrives at YouTube?

           

          Any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

           

          Thanks.

           

          ATR

          • 2. Re: problems with Quality vs Filesize in Exporting to YouTube in 1080p
            chrisk39776543 Level 1

            Hey,

             

            Thanks for replying. It's the latest version 13 on Windows 7 64 Bit.

             

            Here's two examples. Both are screenshots. First is Videopad 30 min video with 1.7Gb file. 2nd is a 30 min vid with 4.7Gb file.

             

            screenshot of 30 min 1920 x 1080 vid @ 1.7Gb

            https://www.dropbox.com/s/1atlx0e538i92qi/ep%208.jpg?dl=0

             

            screenshot of 30 min 1920 x 1080 @ 7.7Gb  you can see the quality is no where near as good.

            https://www.dropbox.com/s/ddigskqcmfxgu3o/Ep%209.jpg?dl=0http://

             

            If I use those first settings you gave me (which is pretty close to what I'm using (except the bitrate I was using 13.87, 15.36 or 19,22, or 20,25 all gave crap quality; then

            I will get a file size over the 30 minute video of 7.7Gb which is 4.5 times greater than what I was getting with Videopad and I was getting far better quality. The problem

            with that is videopad is a **** editor, and it crashes ALL the time, and when it doesn't it gives really bad performance. With APE I can do so much more, and it's a far

            better program, but I just cannot get anywhere near the same quality for the file size.

             

            If I used a 50/50 bitrate I'd only be able to upload to my channel about 6 times a month with my usuage whereas with VP I could do

            4 x that much per month. Since getting APE I just havn't found a setting that gives comparable quality vs file size as videopad, and

            I know it must be able to, VP is a **** program whereas APE is vastly superior so it must be able to do it. I just don't know how.

             

            Thanks

             

            NeonsStyle

            • 3. Re: problems with Quality vs Filesize in Exporting to YouTube in 1080p
              A.T. Romano Level 7

              chrisk

               

              Thanks for the additional information.

               

              Could you post information on the 30 minutes Videopad video

              a. video compression

              and

              b. bitrate value used by the file, also CBR or VBR?

              and

              c. frame rate (assumed progressive)

               

              The bitrate in my AVCHD.mp4 screenshot was starting point from which to work downward to find the lowest bitrate where the quality would be maintained. The target bitrate and maximum bitrate are adjusted separately.

               

              Your Videopad video information should be helpful in determining why you are not getting the expect good quality and file size in Premiere Elements workflow.

               

              Thanks.

               

              ATR

              • 4. Re: problems with Quality vs Filesize in Exporting to YouTube in 1080p
                chrisk39776543 Level 1

                Hey,

                 

                Sure. Videopad is pretty basic timeline editor. The options for exporting

                are very limited. However this is the setup.

                 

                Custom preset

                File Format: mp4

                resolution 1920 x 1080 - YouTube 1080p

                frame rate: 30.00

                Encoder settings: H264 codec

                                         : Quality (rate factor) 23.0   (1.0 High quality 51.0 (low quality).

                Audio:                :AAC with bitrate of 192

                 

                That gives a nice quality for YouTube on a 30 min vid of only 1.74Gb.

                 

                As for my APE settings, well I've used heaps of different ones. Generally though;

                VBR is 13.87/15.36  up to as high as 20/26  and file sizes vary from 3.4 Gb to 4.7Gb with those settings.

                 

                In AVCHD, I'm either using YouTube Widescreen HD or MP4 1920 x 1080 x 30 fps with the above settings.

                 

                Audio is 48,000 x 192 (which is what shadowplay uses). The codec is defaulting to H264 (I still don't know how to change that).

                 

                Using that setup if I want to get the same quality as I do in Videopad then I'll have to set the VBR to 36/50 and that will give me

                a file size of 7.7Gb which is massive. There has to be a better way. If not, how does NCH's Videopad do it???

                 

                Thanks heaps

                 

                NeonsStyle

                • 5. Re: problems with Quality vs Filesize in Exporting to YouTube in 1080p
                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                  chrisk

                   

                  Thanks for the additional information.

                   

                  Very interested in the VideoPad settings that you are using so trying to find the keys to success in those details.

                  I see the audio bitrate as 192 kbps (kilobits per second), but I do not see the video bitrate. Could you get that value for me to check out?

                   

                  It looks like VideoPad is giving you a 1920 x 1080 @ 30 progressive frames per second as H.264.mp4. Once I get a handle on the bitrate, we might also try the Premiere Elements export with Publish+Share/Mobile Phones and Players route for the H.264.mp4. More on that next.

                   

                  ATR

                  • 6. Re: problems with Quality vs Filesize in Exporting to YouTube in 1080p
                    chrisk39776543 Level 1

                    Hey,

                     

                    Thanks...Ok I loaded one of the VP exports into APE and here's the info from the videopad exported vids.

                     

                    They are not 1920 x 1080. Here's the info from APE

                     

                    Source 1920 x 1080 (1.0), 29.97 fps, Progressive, 00,31;13;16, 48000 Hz, Stereo

                     

                    Does that give you the info you need? I'm not sure what the numbers after Progressive mean. I know

                    what the audio numbers mean though. Shadowplay records audio at 48000 but my RODE NT-USB records

                    at 44,100 Hz. Not sure if that means I should reduce gameplay audio down to 44,100 too?

                     

                    I remember Yogscast saying once their bitrate was VBR 2.0 and 6/8 but I'm guessing

                    thats MPEG rather than AVCHD.

                     

                    Hope that helps. Ahhh I think I see why the file sizes are so different. It seems videopad saves

                    in MPEG format rather than AVCHD and that gives much lower file size, yes?

                     

                     

                    Thanks

                     

                    Neon

                    • 7. Re: problems with Quality vs Filesize in Exporting to YouTube in 1080p
                      A.T. Romano Level 7

                      chrisk

                       

                      You may have pointed to important troubleshooting detail.

                       

                      When I read your earlier post, I believed you source video (from VideoPad) to be a H.264.mp4 file based on

                      Custom preset

                      File Format: mp4

                      resolution 1920 x 1080 - YouTube 1080p

                      frame rate: 30.00

                      Encoder settings: H264 codec

                                               : Quality (rate factor) 23.0   (1.0 High quality 51.0 (low quality).

                      Audio:                :AAC with bitrate of 192

                      If you now say that the VideoPad is saving as MPEG, then you probably have a MPEG2.mpg file.

                      Video compression as well as bitrate are going to have an impact on file size.

                       

                      Unless you can find out some other way, could you download and install the free video audio properties readout program named MediaInfo (use Tree View), and then we can get at the details of what VideoPad is giving you. MediaInfo download | SourceForge.net

                      Just be careful with your MediaInfo downloading and installing choices since Media Info is known to travel with unwanted baggage.

                       

                      If we look at this as a MPEG2.mpg, then consider a Premiere Elements export

                      Publish+Share

                      Computer

                      MPEG

                      with Presets = HDTV 1080p29.97 High Quality

                      Do not customize the preset, just hit Save. Let us see what that export looks like.

                       

                      ATR

                      • 8. Re: problems with Quality vs Filesize in Exporting to YouTube in 1080p
                        chrisk39776543 Level 1

                        Hmmm ok I'll try that program and see if it can give out the info... hopefully it's not infected with anything. It said it was clean.

                         

                        Ok it exported it to an .xml file, not sure what to do with that so I'll upload it to drop box along with couple of screenshots of

                        the output just in cash you can't read it.

                         

                        Here's that file:

                         

                        http://https://www.dropbox.com/s/6cfixfwk8tqjnsv/videopad%20export%20format.xml?dl=0

                         

                        Here's the screenshot of the output.

                         

                        https://www.dropbox.com/s/za5oecnlxovo8jn/videopad%20export%20output.jpg?dl=0

                         

                        Hope that helps... I've been at this now for 14 hours straight n it's very frustrating file after filt has to be

                        binned.

                         

                        Thanks

                         

                        Neon

                        • 9. Re: problems with Quality vs Filesize in Exporting to YouTube in 1080p
                          A.T. Romano Level 7

                          chrisk

                           

                          I think you need to retreat temporarily and then advanced refreshed. Then go through the following.

                           

                          The first link in your latest post would not open, but that second one was full of great (really great) information.

                           

                          If that is supposed to represent the VideoPad output, here is the story.

                          1. You have an AVCHD.mp4 file there not MPEG2.mpg. The file is 1920 x 1080 @ a progressive frame.

                          2. Our target is that progressive frame rate - it is variable and not constant, note the 3 frames rates in the video properties readout....

                          minimum frame rate = 10.000 frames per second

                          frame rate = 29.888 frames per second

                          maximum frame rate = 30.000 frames per second

                          Premiere Elements does not fare well with video recorded with a variable rather than a constant frame rate. The symptoms in Premiere Elements range from audio out of sync to not being able to import the video at all. The typical remedy is to take the video into the free HandBrake program to get the H.264.mp4 with constant frame rate (29.97) version. Then you take the export from HandBrake into the Premiere Elements project using Premiere Elements Add Media/Files and Folders.

                          https://handbrake.fr/

                           

                          Also, note that VideoPad is producing its export with a low bitrate, that is, 7759 Kbps (counterpart of 7.7 Mbps). You were trying for 36/50 Mbps in Premiere Elements export. That is an explanation for difference in file sizes that you have been running into in your software comparisons.

                           

                          Since you do not appear to be involved with MPEG2.mpg video, I write the following for informational purposes....What are you doing with an xml file if you used the HDTV 1080p29.97 High Quality preset with Publish+Share/Computer/MPEG? You should get just one file, MPEG2.mpg. If you use one of the presets whose name starts with MPEG2 (interlaced preset at that not progressive), then you will get two files, the video file and an informational m2t.xmlses file. Do nothing with the xml file. All you want is the video file which will be MPEG2.m2t.

                           

                          Right now I would take that video into HandBrake to get 1920 x 1080p29.97 as H.264.mp4, import that file into Premiere Elements, export as AVCHD.mp4 MP4 H.264 1920 x 1080p30, get a base line file with the default bitrates and, if necessary, start lowering the bitrate to 8 Mbps, watching to maintain quality.

                           

                          Please consider.

                           

                          Thanks.

                           

                          ATR

                           

                          Add On....if you need any how tos for HandBrake, let me know. It is easy and quick with key setting under it Video Tab.

                          • 10. Re: problems with Quality vs Filesize in Exporting to YouTube in 1080p
                            chrisk39776543 Level 1

                            Thankyou so much. You completely solved my problem. I already had handbrake, so I converted all the files over

                            to locked frame rate, then reedited the 30 min vid again saved it at 8Mbit and it was the same quality at

                            the same file size. Thanks heaps. Now I'll just up the quality some.

                             

                            Really appreciate it, you've saved me so much work.

                             

                            Thanks heaps

                             

                            Neon

                            • 11. Re: problems with Quality vs Filesize in Exporting to YouTube in 1080p
                              A.T. Romano Level 7

                              chrisk

                               

                              Wonderful news. Great job of putting the information together to gain your success. We appreciated the details that you supplied to help us help you.

                               

                              Please never hesitate to ask if you have questions or need clarification with your Premiere Elements workflows.

                               

                              Best wishes

                               

                              ATR