10 Replies Latest reply on Nov 29, 2015 9:45 PM by roseislandphoto

    Synchronize adjustment problems NEF tif psd

    mika-ef Level 1

      I often make some skin retouch in Photoshop CC in the nontreated raw-picture (NEF)
      and than go back to Lightroom.

      When I then synchronize the adjustments I did in copies of the same pictures (or different pictures - same size)

      they are totally moved disorientated scaled rotated  and the crop is misplaced too.

      What happens here?

      This is an example to explain better what happens with crop and radial filter -same image same image size - same happens with tiff and psd export 8bit and 16bit - photoshop and capture nx

      Strange thing is: with some  pictures it works and I don't know what's the difference but with the most pictures it doesn't

      mfy-20150915-4659.jpgmfy-20150915-4659-Bearbeitet.jpg

        • 1. Re: Synchronize adjustment problems NEF tif psd
          sarsaxen Adobe Employee (Admin)

          Hi mika-ef,

           

          May I know how are you syncing your edits in Lightroom?

           

          Regards

          Sarika

          • 2. Re: Synchronize adjustment problems NEF tif psd
            mika-ef Level 1

            Hi sarsaxen

            Of course - selecting the to pictures in the development panel and hit the synchronize-button or Ctrl-Shift-S.

            • 3. Re: Synchronize adjustment problems NEF tif psd
              Bob Somrak Level 5

              You are applying DOUBLE settings to the second photo.

               

              Lets just discuss the crop changing.  The other edit setting changes follow similar scenarios.

               

              You import the RAW and crop the photo.

              You export to Photoshop and resave the photoshop edited photo in LR.   As far as Lightroom is concerned, THIS IS A NEW PHOTO.

              You sync the settings from the RAW to the NEW photo and the photo is cropped again.

               

              Your workflow is the problem as Lightroom is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.

              • 4. Re: Synchronize adjustment problems NEF tif psd
                Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Bob is right. The problem is that you are syncing edits done on a raw file to a completely independent tiff/psd file that already had some edits applied. As soon as you edit in Photoshop, it loses the link to the raw file because photoshop cannot edit raw files. It can only edit traditional bitmaps. So camera raw first renders the raw file to a bitmap using the instructions you gave in Lightroom. This turns it into a bitmap image and all the edits you did before in Lightroom are now destructively applied.  You can't go back and change edits to the file. So the workflow if you want to involve Photoshop is to do your edits as much as you can in Lightroom and only at the very end go into Photoshop. As soon as you do you create a new image that you can't take back before the Photoshop step. You can edit this is Lightroom but you have to remember it is a completely new image.

                 

                P.S. There is one way to do this but it takes the workflow out of Lightroom. If you open as smart object, you can then in Photoshop, open the smart layer by double clicking it in Camera raw. This allows you to edit any raw rendering settings. You can't change those settings in Lightroom though and have to do them in Photoshop/camera raw. Also, working with the image as a smart object limits what you can do with it and you would probably have to change how you do your skin smoothing.

                • 5. Re: Synchronize adjustment problems NEF tif psd
                  cppasm Level 3

                  This is caused by vertical photo orientation.

                  In a RAW image when you shoot in vertical orientation the actual pixels are still recorded as horizontal image and EXIF tag added to show that image should be rotated when viewed.

                  From the other hand with your processed TIFF/PSD the actual image pixels are reordered to create vertical image orientation.

                  And all local adjustments and crop are image dimensions relative (their position and size).

                  So in fact you are syncing develop settings from a horizontal image to a vertical one - that's why for example your radial filter is rotated and all other settings are at wrong places.

                  • 6. Re: Synchronize adjustment problems NEF tif psd
                    mika-ef Level 1

                    Thank you all for the answers.

                    Maybe I explained bad

                    I don't export the edited picture to photoshop but

                    Reset first a virtual copy of it and then export that.

                    So I have after the skin retouching a tiff or psd file looking like the original raw (except for the photoshop changes).

                    This file I synchronize with the preedited original in Lightroom.

                    When I change my workflow to retouch ready treated pictures I have to do the retouch after a possible change of treatment...

                    I cannot remember that this just happens with vertical images, will have a look.

                    • 7. Re: Synchronize adjustment problems NEF tif psd
                      roseislandphoto

                      I am experiencing apparently the exact same problem.  In initially evaluating images, I often apply lightroom edits to a virtual copy such as crop, radial filter for vignette, temp etc.  I then, take the original raw file into photoshop for editing and save it back as a tif which shows in lightroom.  I then make a virtual copy of the tif and attempt to sync settings from the virtual copy of the original raw to the virtual copy of the tif.  The crop is different, (same aspect ratio).  The radial filter is flipped and placed wrong.  And the color temp is way off.

                      I did the following test:  I rotated the raw and its virtual copy back to horizontal, edited the raw in photoshop, made no changes but saved as the tif.  I created a virtual copy in LR of the tif.  Synced again.  The crop is the same dimensions but is not in the same "location" within the image.  Also, the radial filter is correctly oriented but as with the crop located differently within the image.  Also, the original temperature adjustment appears as if it has been doubly applied.

                      Interesting observation:  In Develop view of the original raw and its adjusted virtual copy.  The color temperature shows as "Custom" as 5650 and 6154.  In the virtual copy of the tif, once synced the Kelvin scale is no longer there.  It shows +16.  The tint in the original raw and its virtual is the default +31 but in the virtual of the tif, its shows +23.  All other treatment setting appear to have synced correctly.

                      I am baffled and a bit frustrated.  Any further thoughts?  What am I missing?

                       

                      Thanks!!

                      Bill

                      • 8. Re: Synchronize adjustment problems NEF tif psd
                        roseislandphoto Level 1

                        I just performed another experiment.  I imported a fresh photo showing as a horizontal but the camera was oriented vertically.  I did not re-orient it in Lightroom.  I performed a crop,  added a radial filter, and adjusted the color temperature....all to a virtual copy.  I opened the original raw in photoshop, made no changes and saved it.  I then made a virtual copy of the tif and synced from the raw virtual copy to the tif virtual copy.  The crop and the radial filter synced perfectly, proving to myself what has been stated above, but the color temp adjustment looks like it was doubled. 

                        • 9. Re: Synchronize adjustment problems NEF tif psd
                          Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          roseisland, the result you're seeing is exactly as expected. The edits you had on the original are baked into the tif saved from Photoshop. If you then reapply the original edits, they will come on doubly applied. Also, rotation in the original file is now applied and if you sync the adjustments it gets rotated again and this causes the relative crop to be different.

                          The color temperature shows as "Custom" as 5650 and 6154.  In the virtual copy of the tif, once synced the Kelvin scale is no longer there.  It shows +16.  The tint in the original raw and its virtual is the default +31 but in the virtual of the tif, its shows +23.  All other treatment setting appear to have synced correctly.

                          I am baffled and a bit frustrated.  Any further thoughts?  What am I missing?

                          This is again completely expected. In the original raw, the raw data had to be interpreted using a color model that assumes the scene was illuminated by a black body radiator of your temperature of choosing and the camera simply detects the relative number of photons in certain wavelength ranges on its RGB sensor sites.  This is completely different from a tiff file, which has this interpretation already applied and there is no memory of this adjustment (which is why you have to stay in raw as much as you can). So Lightroom has to somehow translate the two into each other and it will translate into a relative scale. In other words, the White balance setting you had in the raw file is completely inappropriate to apply to a tiff/jpeg. Lightroom tries to give you something but it will result in a double application of a white balance compensation since the original white adjustment was already applied!

                           

                          So moral of the story is to not sync adjustments between raw files and tiff/jpeg files. You really do not want to do this ever as it will result in double application of settings if the tiff file came from the same raw and in unexpected changes if the tiff file was not originated from the raw file.

                          • 10. Re: Synchronize adjustment problems NEF tif psd
                            roseislandphoto Level 1

                            Understood.  Thank you so much!