14 Replies Latest reply on Sep 25, 2015 12:37 PM by Bob Gates

    Which third HD?

    Bob Gates Level 2

      I am new to using Premiere Pro, mostly editing GoPro footage on a Windows 8.1 computer with Zeon 1650 v3 processor and 16GB RAM.  I currently have a 256GB SSD boot drive for OS and Programs and a 2TB 7200 HD for everything else. I do not want or need a very high end system (e.g. no RAID), but would like better performance at a reasonable cost. From reading the tweakers page and looking at this forum, it seems to me the best way for me to do that would be to install a third hard drive to use for media cache and previews.  I have an old WD Caviar 250GB 7200 rpm drive that I could use.  Or I could buy a new SSD for around $100, something like the Kingston HyperX Savage 240 GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250GB, or the Samsung T1 external 3.0 USB (which I assume would be slower than the other two but easier to install).

       

      So, does this seem like the best next upgrade for my purposes, and if so, would the SSD option be significantly faster then the WD drive that I already have? 

        • 1. Re: Which third HD?
          cc_merchant Level 4

          First step is to buy a Samsung 850 Pro SSD, not the EVO or a Kingston and attach that to a SATA 6G port internally.

          Second step is increasing memory to 32 GB.

          • 2. Re: Which third HD?
            Bob Gates Level 2

            Thanks very much.  Would the 250GB be sufficient for my purposes? 

             

            Yes, I was going to upgrade the memory.  One expenditure at a time!

            • 3. Re: Which third HD?
              Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              I seriously doubt you will see any performance increase by putting in a third drive for media cache and previews.  Use the new third drive for your media and exports.

              • 4. Re: Which third HD?
                Bob Gates Level 2

                OK, now I am confused.  I am pretty new to PPro, but what I had read on tweakers page and elsewhere is to have a separate drive for scratch/previews/cache. 

                 

                If I follow your advice, Bill, how would I use each drive?  C: drive 256 SSD obviously for OS and programs. Then if I get the Samsung drive (500GB?) you say put media and exports there (I was going to put exports on an external USB 3 drive that I didn't mention). And projects there, I assume?

                 

                Then where do I put media cache, media cache database, and previews?  And then what is the role of the current D: 2TB drive?

                • 5. Re: Which third HD?
                  Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Bob, unfortunately our PPBM7 web site has in some places old data.  I wish I had the time and I had the know how to update it.  It was written when the only real choice was hard disk drives and they could not be used for multitasking well.  Today with devices 10 to 20 times the read and write speed the picture has changed.  You definitely want the exports on the fastest drive.  Since I gave you the first response I went to the computer and confirmed my opinions.  On my X99 OC with 64 GB of RAM, and CC2015, I had the Cache in the default C: fast SSD drive and Previews with the project files (SM951SSD).  Also I guess I do not have Preview files as I never render to timeline..  I played back the PPBM  H.264 complex timeline once to let the computer (memory) learn what to cache.  The second full resolution playback is at or very near 0 frames.  After that I moved the Cache and Preview files to an very old 2.5-inch drive ~50 MB/second read and write rate and performed the same experiment with the same results.  I am guessing that both those types of files become memory resident and that their is no real need for the highest speed storage for them.

                   

                  I just wish for a new laptop with a single SM951 type device  a USB 3.1 port and lots on memory rather this 10 poind monster that I have.

                  • 6. Re: Which third HD?
                    Bob Gates Level 2

                    Bill, thank you for this full and helpful response.  (I will also mention that I took your earlier advice and successfully upgraded my Xeon processor from 1603 to 1650 which made a nice difference in speed.) 

                     

                    If I get this new SSD drive, and put media, projects, and exports on it, is there anything that I should put on one of my other drives other than the Premiere Pro program itself (256 boot disk, 2TB data drive)?

                    • 7. Re: Which third HD?
                      cc_merchant Level 4

                      The case Bill presents here is completely directed at exports. During exports the media cache and previews are not used at all, so of course he gets better results with media and exports on a fast SSD. However, if you belong to category A (see Tweakers Page - What video card to use) then the media cache and previews should be located on the SSD, since that really reduces any hiccups, stuttering playback and dropped frames. The artificial cache filling that Bill uses to stress his point only works on relatively short time lines and only with the same sequence. If you change sequences, the filling of the cache needs to be repeated before its effect kicks in.

                      • 8. Re: Which third HD?
                        Bob Gates Level 2

                        Thank you for this additional input.  I am starting to despair of finding a satisfactory answer to my question, but I will try again.  I am indeed in Category A.  I really don't care about export times, since I typically start that and walk away to return when it is done.  I am concerned about delays during the editing process  on import and render and preview and playback.  In my case, working mostly with GoPro files, making videos of from five to ten minutes, using lots of clips and some effects: would it be cost effective to purchase a 256GB SSD drive for media cache and previews, and leave my media files and projects on the 2TB HD (and perhaps export to my external 3.0 USB HD)?  Or should I get a larger and faster SSD (e.g. 500GB) and put my media and projects on that drive?  And if so, where should I put my media cache and preview files?.  I realize by now that there is no one right answer to this, but I could use some direction.  If anyone has some links to web sites about these matters other than the tweakers page (which I have read more than once), that would be helpful too.

                        • 9. Re: Which third HD?
                          Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          cc_merchant wrote:

                           

                          The case Bill presents here is completely directed at exports.

                          Notice, I did not once mention anything about exports in my testing

                           

                          I will be responding ASAP more in detail but I need some additional testing.   But use the antique 2TB hard drive for archiving.  Good thing you mentioned GoPro as it is a much more difficult codec.  What SSD do you have for your boot drive, there are lots of SSD's but not all are good.  What Premiere version .-

                          • 10. Re: Which third HD?
                            Bob Gates Level 2

                            I said I was using GoPro in my initial post. Boot drive is Samsung SM841 256GB.   Using Premiere Pro CC.

                            • 11. Re: Which third HD?
                              Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              There are a lot of GoPro recording options can you give me more details   I guess that boot drive is probably a XP941,is that right

                              • 12. Re: Which third HD?
                                Bob Gates Level 2

                                No, the boot drive is a Samsung SM841 256GB, as I just said in my previous post.  I believe that is an OEM drive that Dell puts in its lower end Precision Workstations.


                                I shoot the GoPro in both 1080p 60fps, and 2.7k 60fps.  It was when I tried to edit some 2.7K footage that I knew I was in trouble and bought this new computer.  Specs are in first post, but I will repeat them here: Dell Precision Workstation T5810 with Zeon 1650 v3 processor, 256GB SSD, 2TB 7200 rpm HDD and 16GB RAM. Also 2TB WD Elements USB 3.0 external drive that I use mostly for backup.

                                 

                                I really appreciate your taking the time to think about my problem, but it seems to me that there should be a simpler answer to the general question of whether adding a small SSD drive for chaches and previews would be a good way for me to increase my editing speed.

                                • 13. Re: Which third HD?
                                  Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Sorry about the SSD info as I had not heard of that one before, looks to me like about the same performance as the Samsung EVO family.  Fairly good read performance not very good write performance.  So if that were my system I would (as cc_merchant said) get more memory and get off that 2 TB hard drive and put your project files and media on the fastest device you can afford and use in that.motherboard

                                   

                                  From all my testing I can not find any timeline performance increase putting the Media Cache and Media Cache Files on a separate drive when you use the Adobe default boot drive when you have a SSD for that application.  If it were a hard disk drive and you had it about half full the performance would really be bad.

                                   

                                  Make sure you have a SATA III 6Gb/s port available and have the connectors/cables to install it Before you buy the Samsung 850 Pro, or if not you might have to install an SSD in a PCIe slot

                                  • 14. Re: Which third HD?
                                    Bob Gates Level 2

                                    Thank you.  I do have an empty SATA III 6GB/s port with a power connector (six in all on this computer), and will get a data cable and a mounting bracket when I order the drive.