20 Replies Latest reply on Nov 27, 2015 7:34 AM by ScubaBadger

    "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"

    WhoisRip

      Under the features page Adobe clearly states:

       

      Multiple GPU export support

      Premiere Pro can now take full advantage of computers with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times. Rendering and compression just got a whole lot faster.

      Can someone PLEASE be very specific as to how this works with the new CC 2015?  I just bought my 2nd GTX 970 and SLI'd it.  Now I'm reading a lot of conflicting stories online and can't seem to get a straight answer.  Please don't reference any forums or blogs either that are outdated either.  Adobe CC 2015 was just rolled out not too long ago which is what has this new feature.

      Is having two 970's in SLI beneficial for Premiere and AE use??  Do I use the SLI bridge or no?   Do I enable SLI in the NVIDIA control panel?  Or did I frankly just waste $330 ???

      Any educated insight would be GREATLY appreciated to help ease this anxiety.  Thank you...






        • 1. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
          WhoisRip Level 1

          My current setup:


          Windows 7 Professional (64 bit)

          Intel i7 4790k

          32 GB Ram
          512GB Samsung 850 PRO SSD
          2 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 GPU's (SLI)

          • 2. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
            cc_merchant Level 4

            Your system lacks the required PCIe lanes, so forget about 2 video cards. You are running both video cards at PCI 8x speed, instead of a single card at 16x speed. You have wasted your money. Better try to sell one, or build a better system.

             

            SLI is not advised. SLI is not used by Adobe, so leave the bridge out.

             

            Dual video cards can help in very limited circumstances. If you have two video cards installed, Adobe handles all odd frames with card 1 and all even frames with card 2. That is if the frames can use hardware acceleration. If the frames can not use hardware acceleration, the video card(s) is / are not used at all.

             

            If the frames can use hardware acceleration (and that is a big if) then the CPU needs to be able to feed the data fast enough to the video cards to profit. If the CPU is too slow, then the video card(s) will be idle most of the time. To determine whether dual video cards can be beneficial, and will deliver a performance boost, you can check pretty easy:

             

            Load your typical time line with your standard effects, transitions, etc. and then export that time line to your most commonly used format. For instance load your AVCHD time line, and export to H.264 in HD if that is your most common workflow. Now check the GPU load on your single video card during that export process with something like GPU-Z.

             

            If the load on your GPU is consistently more than 50%, then you may gain a tiny bit of performance by installing a 2nd video card (without SLI). If the load on the GPU is mostly 50% or lower, you will not see any performance improvement at all, you will only burn money.

             

            If the load on your CPU is consistently more than 80-90%, then you are approaching a point where a second video card can be worth the extra expenditure, provided all the other system components are in balance. Note that you must use your most used source material in a typical time line that you often create and export to the most used format in your workflow. It makes no sense to try this out with benchmark time lines that do not reflect your typical workflow.

             

            Now, in the case where a single video card always showed GPU usage around 90-100% you have decided that video cards are necessary and worth the cost, you may want to investigate a third card. That only comes under consideration if the GPU load on both video cards far exceeds 75% load.

             

            One final warning: use of multiple video cards is for all practical purposes only worth considering if you have 16 free PCIe lanes available for each video card. If you don't have that many PCIe lanes, forget about multiple video cards. It makes no sense to install multiple video cards and choke all of them to a lower connection speed.

             

            Your system lacks the required PCIe lanes, so forget about 2 video cards. You are running both video cards at PCI 8x speed, instead of a single card at 16x speed. You have wasted your money. Better try to sell one, or build a better system.

            • 3. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
              WhoisRip Level 1

              cc_merchant

               

               

              Thanks for your reply and insight cc_merchant, I appreciate it greatly.  So...what I'm gathering here, basically, is...Adobe misrepresented their statement??  What you're saying is...it should be something more like:

               

              "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times, ONLY if they have a really great system and enough PCIe lanes"  ???

               

              Do these help at all when scaling video in projects?  And if you don't mind me asking, how do you know how many PCIe lanes I have?

               

              Thanks again for your help and insight.  I just bought my 2nd GTX 970 a few days ago...so you're advising I return in?   Also..how much more of a performance boost would I get if I had one GTX 980 or 980Ti over the dual 970 ???

               

              Any other input and opinions still welcome.  Thanks everyone...

               

               

               

              :

              • 4. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                RjL190365 Level 4

                In your case, don't waste your money on the GTX 980 or 980 Ti: With that CPU the performance increase would have been far less than the relatively massive increase in monetary cost. In fact, even a single GTX 970 is a tad overkill for a system with that CPU.

                 

                Remember, all of the major components in a PC that's used for video editing – CPU, RAM, disks and GPU – should be balanced (performance-wise) with one another for the optimal bang for the buck. If a single component is overqualified, such as the GPU, you've thrown that PC out of performance balance: You'd have just wasted money for practically zero overall tangible performance gain, and the overqualified component may even degrade the performance of the rest of your PC.

                 

                And cc_merchant is correct about the PCI-e lanes: The LGA 115# platform, which the i7-4790K is part of, has only 16 total available PCI-e lanes, all of which are normally utilized by a single discrete GPU. But when you add a second GPU, where is that second GPU going to get any PCI-e lanes at all from? Most LGA 115# motherboards reduce the PCI-e lane count that's sent to the primary PCI-e x16 slot from 16 lanes to 8 lanes if you add a second GPU so that the second GPU will receive 8 lanes. However, a few motherboards retain 16 lanes to the primary slot but run the second slot at only PCI-e 2.0 x4 or x2 (off of the chipset PCH) instead of PCI-e 3.0 x16 – a configuration that's not recommended by nVidia for dual-GPU operation. (Socket LGA 2011 platforms have up to 40 PCI-e lanes, of which only 16 are utilized by a single GPU. This allows you to add a second GPU or other high-performance PCI-e components without degrading performance.) Please note that the PCI-e lanes are off the CPU unless otherwise noted.

                 

                The problem with your plan is you've expected far too much: You expected an upgraded GPU or multiple GPUs to (fully) compensate for the weaknesses in the rest of your PC when it really can't.

                • 5. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                  Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                  WhoisRip wrote:

                   

                  Adobe CC 2015 was just rolled out not too long ago which is what has this new feature.

                  .

                  Just for your information that is not a new feature in CC2015.  It has been a feature of all the CC versions since their first release in 2013

                   

                  Do you do a lot of scaling? Any 4K work?

                  • 6. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                    WhoisRip Level 1

                    Thanks @cc_merchant and everyone for the input, appreciate it greatly!  As of right now I have the 2 GPU's .  I just bought the other one a few days, if I have to...I'm guessing I can still probably return it.  So everyone's consensus is to just return it, it won't help with anything??

                     

                    Right now I have 1 GPU hooked up to my 20" LCD monitor and the other one to my 50" 1080p TV that I use for a monitor as well.

                     

                    As Bill Gehrke asked, yes I do do a decent amount of scaling and 4k work.  In fact, I look to move completely into 4k editing here in the near future.  So are the 2 GPU's still irrelevant for that?  My guess is yes??  But then why did Bill ask??
                    And.  This is the type of feedback I was looking for.

                     

                    RjL190365, so what is the weakness in my system then?  What would you recommend as my upgrade instead of the 2nd GPU??  I actually just upgraded this system.  Came from a AMD FX-8350 w/ 16GB RAM over to my current i7-4790k and 32GB.  I figured that would be one heck of an upgrade as it is.  But apparently, there's a weak link or bottleneck somewhere??

                     

                    Ultimately...I'm getting into 4k editing and rendering (looking to buy the Atomos Ninja Assasin- little brother to the Shogun).  AE work...some 3D work in Element 3D.

                     

                    Again, all your insight is IMMENSELY appreciate

                    • 7. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                      cc_merchant Level 4

                      Do these help at all when scaling video in projects?

                      Scaling is done by the GPU. See Tweakers Page - What video card to use?

                       

                      When you move to 4K editing, you will quickly discover that your system will be a real bottleneck and the only sensible solution is to upgrade to a new system, an i7-5930K or i7-5960X on a X99 mobo with 32+ GB DDR4 memory. Then your 2 GTX 970's will be great, you can have a Samsung 850 Pro 256 GB SSD for OS & programs, a Samsung 950 Pro 512 GB m.2 SSD for media cache and previews and a Samsung 850 Pro 1 or 2 TB SSD for media, projects and exports. that kind of system would be excellent for 4K editing.

                      • 8. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                        JFPhoton Level 3

                        Eric Bowen of ADK computers is frequently here on this forum and, along with Bill Gehrke, can give you the best technical advise relative to your exact current and future workflow. What codecs and editing style you use are very important.

                         

                        Since you JUST upgraded don't panic yet....there are a few simple adjustments you can make to get the most from your current rig.

                         

                        1. Make sure that your Samsung 850 pro has ONLY your operating system, programs, and Windows page file on it....nothing more. Turn OFF "indexing" for all your drives in the system. You will need a separate and fast "media drive" for ALL your other files, ( footage, previews, projects, exports, media cache, and cache files ). The IDEAL drive for this is the new Samsung SM951 PCI SSD which will run at over      1.5 GB/ sec.  The performance will be blazing fast. using this drive, but, its capacity is LIMITED. You then would be advised to add a large enterprise level hard drive to "offload" all completed files to for safekeeping. These newer HDDs run at over 200MB/sec. with a 128MB cache on them and go up to at least 6 TB in size....they are not expensive.

                         

                        2. Your CPU is designed to be overclocked.....TAKE ADVANTAGE of that and try to get the highest stable frequency you can with it, making sure you use a good cooling solution... probably water.Performance will get a significant boost from this MOST important factor.  Sure, your CPU  "only" has "8 processors" with the hyperthreading compared to the top end  Haswell E CPUs which can give you SIXTEEN...but, CPU CLOCK SPEED is KING and will affect your performance because MOST video is processed ONLY with the CPU. The NVidia GPU WILL help GREATLY whenever SPECIFIC functions on your timeline are those which can be CUDA accelerated...i.e. "scaling", "ultra key", "dissolves", and a whole host of effects and other functions. When engaged, the GPU CAN accelerate heavy timelines saturated with CUDA effects by a factor of TEN TIMES when "rendering previews", or, "exporting media " Your CPU has a stock speed of 3.6 Ghz and will turbo up to 3.8 on all 4 cores. MANY users are overclocking your CPU to a stable 4.7 Ghz....some are over 5Ghz !!! You can see that an increase of one full Ghz would give you about a  20 to 25% performance increase....that's a LOT !!

                            It has been said here on this forum that once the CPU is over 4Ghz, it is OK even for 4K.

                            However, I have ALSO seen here, ( from Eric, I believe), that certain types of 4K really need to have a GPU which has a minimum of 4 GB of DDR5 video memory because of "frame cacheing", or, " frame buffering".    So, return ONE of the 970s and KEEP one, ( if it has 4 GB video memory or greater ). Use the refund towards a SM 951 drive.

                         

                        3. Make sure all your settings are properly set. In Windows power settings make sure all settings are for MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE so that Windows does NOT throttle anything back automatically....I learned this lesson on my laptop....the DEFAULT settings were throttling the CPU and GPU all the time until I fixed it !!

                           Next, in Premiere, make sure you have the settings correct for assigning the correct amount of memory use for premiere......Eric has said here it should be at least 3 GB per thread, ( I think.....he may have said "core" ...I forgot ). In YOUR case that means assigning 24 GB of system memory for Premiere, ( 8 "threads" x 3 GB = 24GB ). The rest can be set for use by "other programs " Of course, you can experiment and increase the amount to 3.5 or other higher number.

                         

                        4. Don't freak out.....Bill and I have the same Asus laptops that are now two years old with the 2gb 765m NVidia GPU in them and the i7 4700 HQ CPU. We both shitcanned the included and useless 5400rpm hard drive and we both installed two quality SATA III SSDS into each of the two hard drive bays. We also each increased the laptop memory to 24 GB. Bill has already completed some rudimentary 4K projects on his laptop and I have experimented with 4K on mine. On my laptop, basic editing is not a problem with 4K, but, adding video tracks and effects does slow it down....however, rendering the timeline fixes that. YOUR machine, properly overclocked, with more memory than us, and with an SM 951 and a 970 GPU should do FINE for now...I believe.   Unless you want to spend 4 to 5 thousand dollars on a new Haswell E  X99 machine !!

                         

                        p.s.   if working with 4K, and quality 1080p, you need a couple of good monitors. I recently bought  TWO 27 inch Acer IPS monitors that are WQHD, or, 2560 x 1440p in resolution. They were rated very high in more than one review and are IPS....the pixel density is IDEAL.....at 27 inches, 1440p video LOOKS like 4K !!   The color and picture quality is amazing. My laptop powers BOTH monitors at full resolution !!! One uses HDMI 1.4 and the other uses the " mini displayport" 1.1 connection...( which is also called Thunderbolt version 1 ). This monitor was only $200 on the egg, ( including a $50 rebate). Others in this class are 6 to 7 hundred.

                        • 9. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                          WhoisRip Level 1

                          WOW JFPhoton THANKS SO MUCH for the insight!!  I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!!  So I think i'll return one of 970's then and get a water cooler for my CPU and work on overclocking that.  Do you (or anyone else) have a recommendation for a good Water Cooler??  And what software or methods would I use to OverClock my CPU???  So you're thinking OC'ing my CPU to say about 4.3 GHz would be safe with water cooling???

                           

                          Thanks again SO MUCH for EVERYONE'S insight.  I was starting to get anxiety with the purchase of the new GTX 970.  I should have probably done this deep of homework BEFORE purchasing it. 

                           

                          But, I'll return the 970 and work on a water cooler (then OC'ing the CPU), the SM 951 Drive and then maybe a good IPS monitor...

                          THANKS AGAIN GREATLY EVERYONE!!!!!!!

                          • 10. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                            cc_merchant Level 4

                            Corsair Hydro coolers do not give better cooling performance than air coolers from Cooler Master or Noctua, nor do they run quieter. They are only more expensive. Don't forget that air coolers in push-pull configuration have two fans, that are replaced by two fans on the radiator when using a Corsair Hydro. Unfortunately, the Corsair fans are pretty noisy, thereby defeating the intention of water cooling to make things more silent. Effectively, one replaces two fans with an average noise level of 25 dB with two radiator fans with 35 dB. If the cooling performance was better, that extra noise might be overlooked, but that is not the case. Up to around 4.8 GHz overclock, the performance difference between air coolers and Corsair Hydro is negligent. So, if you opt for Corsair Hydro coolers, you don't get better cooling, you do get more noise, more power consumption (because of the waterpump) and you spend a lot more.

                            From What kind of PC to use?

                            • 11. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                              WhoisRip Level 1

                              What about this H220-X I'm reading about @cc_merchant? 

                               

                              Ok...one last question about this double GPU topic JFPhoton.  And this is originally why I bought a second 970 to begin with:

                               

                              I just filmed a 2hr long feature length on the GH4.  Recorded it all on a Atomos Ninja Star external recorder.  So the footage was downscaled to 1080p ProRes.

                               

                              Theres 2 things I want to do:

                               

                              1.  ReUpscale the 1080p footage to 4k to screen in the theater.  I know upscaling 1080p to 4k is frowned upon, but I did some tests and found upscaling 1080p footage that was originally downscaled from 4k does indeed get better looking results than simply upscaling natively filmed 1080p.

                               

                              2.  Will be downscaling the 1080p master to SD using Jeff Belunes and Dan Isaacs hd2sd method (via frameserving) to put the film on DVD.

                               

                              AND TIME IS IF THE ESSENCE!!!

                               

                              Keep in mind...this is a full length film with lots of effects, AE comps, Neat Video Noise Reduction and grading.

                               

                              Would the dual GPU be beneficial in THIS aspect????

                               

                               

                              I'm not looking to spend thousands on upgrading to anything drastic like mentioned above (anytime soon).  So, is returning the 2nd GPU still recommended?  Or keep it and work on cooling and OC'ing the CPU as well??

                               

                              Thanks again!

                              • 12. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                                JKad

                                When recently building an X99 platform PC, I thoroughly read the PPBM site and that quote regarding CPU cooling.  BUT after doing a great deal of research, found several articles on the web with reviews of water and air coolers on the market.  I have used the Hyper 212 and 612 on two prior builds and had been very pleased with them.  I noticed the newer air coolers with three fans and many air coolers using up to 140mm fans.  I also read where some users were becoming concerned about hanging that much weight from their motherboards.  The following review provides performance results of most of the then current air and water CPU coolers on the market. Overclock3D :: Review :: Cooler Master Hyper 612 v2 Review :: Performance and Testing  .  Pay particular attention to the charts!

                                 

                                I ended up getting the Corsair H110i GT.  It was simple to install on a 5960X CPU, Asus X99-E WS motherboard and Thermaltake V71 case.  I used the fans included with the cooler kit in push configuration and used one of the 200mm case fans that came with the case along with an additional 200mm case fan on top of the radiator in pull configuration.  I tried the MB fan software to control fan speed dependent on CPU temps but have instead been using Speedfan for this purpose.  Speedfan is easier to work with, provides easy temp reporting and is more configurable.  The fans are usually running at their minimum setting of 20%.  I do not use the Corsair software.  The pump has high and low speeds but I just leave it on high since there is no noticeable audible difference and I can't hear the pump with the case sitting right next to my desk anyway.  My usual CPU temps are 28C to 32C and topped out at 58C with 100% CPU usage while running one of the CPU intensive PPBM benchmarks.  This case has 7 fans in it and you can bet that when all of them are cranked up to 100% they are indeed noisy!  But I'm using the standard fans that came with the case and cooler, there are quieter options on the market, with air cooling I would be using all but maybe one of these fans anyway and I'm not sitting here twiddling my thumbs while this machine is rendering in the first place.  During normal editing (and almost everything else I do), the machine purrs quietly.  BUT when I need it, everything kicks into gear to keep the CPU from overheating!

                                 

                                I recommend that you do some research on CPU cooling options--you'll be glad you did!

                                • 13. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                                  jasonvp Level 3

                                  JKad wrote:

                                   

                                  I recommend that you do some research on CPU cooling options--you'll be glad you did!

                                  Don't bother.  cc_merchant aka Harm knows... everything.  It's not worth attempting to change his mind with your direct, first-hand experience.

                                   

                                  If you want to improve the performance and quietness of the H110i (I have the same) system, then go ahead and connect it to the USB header on the MoBo, and run the Corsair software.  Further, replace the OEM fans (Corsair's are "OK") with a set of Noctua 140mm fans.  Connect them into the Corsair pump and: voila.  The Noctuas make, literally: no noise.  At all.

                                  • 14. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                                    RjL190365 Level 4

                                    I also have an H110i GT. I have it installed with the fans outside the top of the case due to my system's motherboard being too close to the top of the case - so close that there is just enough room for the fanless radiator. The stock fans are fairly loud - and nearly screaming when they're at full speed.

                                     

                                    Unfortunately, there is no good balance between good static pressure and decent quietness. The Noctua fans, for their "quietness", have relatively weak static pressure performance, making them less than suitable for cooling radiators and heatsinks.

                                    • 15. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                      Well we quit using the self contained water coolers because the pumps were prone to fail which was a serious Achilles heel for the systems. Active cooling provides equal or close to the same cooling capability in standard ambient environments. Water cooling only has the advantage when ambient temps can get higher and even then it's not a definite with the self contained coolers.

                                       

                                      Eric

                                      ADK

                                      • 16. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                                        RjL190365 Level 4

                                        Eric,

                                         

                                        While the pumps themselves are a weak point in the closed-loop liquid CPU coolers, I've found that some of the motherboard manufacturers no longer make motherboards like they used to: The PCBs themselves have gotten thinner and weaker, so that they can no longer support any CPU air cooler that's heavier than the stock Intel boxed CPU cooler (and we all know how ineffective that stock Intel cooler really is, especially on the higher-end CPUs). I have recently experienced motherboards (well, not from all manufacturers, but from certain ones such as ASRock) that have been warped at the CPU area - and that's just under the weight of a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO with its stock fan(s). Over time (in as little as a few days), the CPU lost its contact with the cooler, severely degrading air cooling performance Then, serious stability issues began cropping up in some of these recent PC builds. Worse, such damage to the motherboard is not warrantied at all by the manufacturer. Thus, every motherboard replacement cost me $150 to $200 per incident. At this rate one would have to spend more than $500 to $600 just for a motherboard that can handle the extremely heavy weight of the best air coolers.


                                        I would clearly place the blame on the "race to the bottom" in quality control that's practiced by some motherboard manufacturers.

                                         

                                        As a result, I have quit using high-end air coolers due to the fact that I would have needed to spend thousands of dollars per month just to replace motherboards within a single PC that failed under the coolers' weight.

                                        • 17. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                                          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                          Well I am not surprised on the systemboard quality shift PCB's. You also see this with the electronic components on the boards themselves the longer into production as the systemboard manufacturers start clearing out inventory and ordering less components at a time from a less expensive source. We use the Noctua heatsinks and fans though and they have not put enough weight on the PCB area to cause issues. We use only Asus boards and the more expensive boards but they have held up well especially with the mounting support under the boards. I suspect that mounting support under the socket is the issue your running into or the lack of that support. The self contained water coolers were great at first but the 2 year pump failure mark has really made us walk away from them. To many pumps failed in that time atleast for us.

                                           

                                          Eric

                                          ADK

                                          • 18. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                                            WhoisRip Level 1

                                            Found some interesting Results after finding this option in Neat Video (Nosie Reduction plugin).  Turns out that I do indeed get much quicker render speeds with the 2 GPU's!  This is HUGE!!!  cc_merchant JFPhoton

                                            NeatVideo.jpg

                                            • 19. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                                              RjL190365 Level 4

                                              That could be because most high-end GPUs, including the GTX 970, do not come anywhere close to utilizing the full PCI-e 3.0 x16 bandwidth. As such, two GTX 970's on an LGA 1150 platform perform only slightly slower than two GTX 970's on an LGA 2011 v3 platform.

                                              • 20. Re: "PP can now take full advantage of PCs with multiple GPU cards for significantly accelerated export times"
                                                ScubaBadger Level 1

                                                Was having extreme jitter, playback and final rendering issues and "disabled multiple GPU mode) on my GeForce Titan Z - now system behaves with PP - albeit slower.

                                                 

                                                It's a real shame that having shelled out for the card I can only use half of it..