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    when will after effects use Metal.

    barubin88 Level 1

      When will ae use Metal?

        • 1. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
          Todd_Kopriva Level 8

          We are currently exploring various technologies for GPU acceleration, and Metal is one possibility, but we have made no commitment to any specific GPU acceleration technology at this time.

          • 2. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
            adamneer Level 2

            Whatever you go with, please make it one that doesn't depend upon a proprietary technology from a single card manufacturer.  Mac users get vey little choice in graphics cards and Apple as of late has been completely ignoring Nvidia.

            • 3. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
              Phil Cote Level 1

              I agree with this. Currently, After Effects DOESN'T support the latest MacBook Pro 2015 (AMD Radeon R9 M370X GPU), which is ridiculous. I hope you guys at Adobe will come out with a Metal solution soon.

              • 4. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                barubin88 Level 1

                umm don't lie you guys did at the apple keynote. You guys showed after effects and illustrator in the metal demonstration.

                • 5. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                  Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                  What was shown on the Apple stage was the result of one experiment.

                  • 6. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                    barubin88 Level 1

                    Todd you're embarrassing your self.  This what was said, "So Adobe is committed to bringing metal to all of its Mac OS creative cloud applications such as illustrator and after effects as I showed you today as well as Photoshop and premier pro. So we are very excited to see what metal can do for our creative cloud users."

                     

                    I Guess you didn't get the memo that they actually did make a commitment.

                    • 7. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                      I am the person who makes the commitments for After Effects. The person who did the demonstration was a member of of our engineering team demonstrating the results of an experiment.

                      • 8. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                        Phil Cote Level 1

                        Well, I agree with barubin that if your engineers are saying Adobe is committed to Metal publicly on Apple's event, then is backing off elsewhere, it doesn't send a very clear message to users.

                        • 9. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                          Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                          I certainly agree that the engineer who spoke on the Apple stage sent a confusing message. At this point, the best that I can do---as the leader of the After Effects team---is to clarify the reality, which I have done above on this thread.

                          • 10. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                            barubin88 Level 1

                            why wouldn't you use metal? It seems to make ae faster.

                            • 11. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                              Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              As Todd said, they are looking at it and other options. I am guessing that they will not commit to going down the rabbit hole again like they did with NVIDIA and CUDA without considering all options. That is the only thing that makes good business sense. It's awfully hard for enthusiastic users to accept the fact that software companies must consider all costs when designing their products. If they are great at research and development but bad at business they won't be around to keep the lights on for very long.

                              • 12. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                adamneer Level 2

                                I think the confusing message was sent merely by Adobe's presence on stage during the keynote, using specific software in their demo rather than making it a clear point that it was just an exercise. Generally when a major software company goes onstage to demonstrate something, it's for the purpose of advertising upcoming features. But in this case, it was obviously mutually beneficial for Apple and Adobe to garner interest in their products by banking off eachothers pedigree. All of this to say that I'm sure if it was up to you (Todd), no one from Adobe would be demoing unfinished work on someone else's stage. The fact that you regularly correspond with your user base is enough to evidence your commitment to the program.

                                 

                                Good move focusing on non brand specific tech for future gpu implementation.

                                • 14. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                  pavelusha Level 1

                                  There are several aspects of this problem.
                                  First, I think it was a very bad choice of words at the keynote.
                                  Second, people forget that After Effects is a small part of a very big product. Creative cloud is a very integrated system where small change in one part can snowball big problems in others. For instance you can replace footage on the Premiere timeline with AE composition and Pemiere will be rendering that part thru AE. And you have to make sure everything works properly on both ends. So does that mean Premiere has to get Metal support too? What happens if it doesn't?
                                  Third. Just in the current version for the first time since AE was developed the core was reworked. AE now has real multi–threading where for instance Render and UI seat on different threads. So now Adobe team has to figure out how implement further multi–threading for the rendering. That means more problems to figure out what to do with multi processor rendering, GPU acceleration and such.
                                  Forth. Somebody posted before asking not to choose proprietary technology because Mac users have problems with NVIDIA cards. Well, Metal is proprietary Apple's technology, so then the whole PC market would have problems. And that market segment is a way bigger!
                                  And you can continue this list with more and more problems....

                                  But the bottom line is that Adobe has a very hard problem to solve and I hope they will take their time to do it right!

                                  • 15. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                    David McGavran Adobe Employee

                                    Adobe is firmly committed to performance because it accelerates creativity - Adobe is also firmly committed to the Mac platform.  We share as much as we can about the directions we’re exploring and will continue to try and set realistic expectations about when specific advancements will come to market.  When we demonstrated what was possible, we made a clear statement - which I repeat here: "Adobe is committed to bringing Metal to all of its Mac OS Creative Cloud applications, such as Illustrator and After Effects I showed you today, as well as Photoshop and Premiere Pro. We are very excited to see what Metal can do for our Creative Cloud users."


                                    David McGavran

                                    Director of Engineering

                                    Adobe Professional Audio and Video

                                     

                                    • 16. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                      Phil Cote Level 1

                                      David and Todd, could you speak to each other internally before saying opposite declarations? Which of you guys should we believe now?

                                      • 17. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                        barubin88 Level 1

                                        Todd if you make all the after effects announcements why is David making them for you again?

                                        • 18. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                          pavelusha Level 1

                                          Phil, I don't think the declarations are opposite. David said that "Adobe is committed to bringing Metal to all of its Mac OS Creative Cloud applications". what it means they work on it really hard. BUT, that doesn't mean that's the only way and it's a 100% done deal. They are doing research, building software, exploring different ways. "Metal" in particular is a part of that process.

                                          • 19. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                            barubin88 Level 1

                                            Todds on a power trip.

                                            • 20. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                              adamneer Level 2

                                              "There are several aspects of this problem.

                                              First, I think it was a very bad choice of words at the keynote.
                                              Second, people forget that After Effects is a small part of a very big product. Creative cloud is a very integrated system where small change in one part can snowball big problems in others. For instance you can replace footage on the Premiere timeline with AE composition and Pemiere will be rendering that part thru AE. And you have to make sure everything works properly on both ends. So does that mean Premiere has to get Metal support too? What happens if it doesn't?
                                              Third. Just in the current version for the first time since AE was developed the core was reworked. AE now has real multi–threading where for instance Render and UI seat on different threads. So now Adobe team has to figure out how implement further multi–threading for the rendering. That means more problems to figure out what to do with multi processor rendering, GPU acceleration and such.
                                              Forth. Somebody posted before asking not to choose proprietary technology because Mac users have problems with NVIDIA cards. Well, Metal is proprietary Apple's technology, so then the whole PC market would have problems. And that market segment is a way bigger!
                                              And you can continue this list with more and more problems....

                                              But the bottom line is that Adobe has a very hard problem to solve and I hope they will take their time to do it right!"

                                               

                                              Well said, and I agree that Metal being a Mac only technology is limiting.  BUT, I don't see a reason other than corporate interest for Adobe to ONLY develop for a magical GPU tech that is shared among both platforms.  Surely they aren't simply porting the Mac version over from a master copy of the Windows version, so there has to be some platform specific development already in place.  If Metal is the GPU tech that allows the highest number of current Mac systems to benefit, and DirectX, or whatever Windows is currently going with provides the most benefit for PCs, I see no reason why Adobe can't devote effort into developing for both.  What I don't want to see is Adobe develop another GPU acceleration that requires me to not only have a high performance card, but one made by a specific GPU manufacturer, made within a certain timespan. And I don't want to see any new features withheld from any one platform or the other, simply because they only see it cost effective to develop for one technology at a time.

                                              • 21. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                ArchieGates Level 1

                                                Dear Adobe,

                                                 

                                                When you go on stage and make statements like this, you are influencing the purchasing decision of thousands of people who are making a living using your products. As someone who just invested $8,000 into a new Mac Pro based partly on the fact that technologies like Metal will enable better productivity on the Mac platform, it's a kick in the gut when you guys come out months later and say, "Just kidding!!" You deserve to be called out on this big time, because it's misleading and nothing about your presentation at WWDC gave the impression that you were just "kicking the tires" with the technology.

                                                 

                                                An apology would be nice, rather than making it look like we're the ones who didn't understand your message.

                                                • 22. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                  TorrellesEdit Level 1

                                                  Someone's getting fired

                                                  • 23. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                    Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                                    Let me try to clarify:

                                                     

                                                    What David showed on the Apple stage was a demonstration of the potential that Metal has for After Effects, as well as for other Adobe creative applications. In his role leading our R&D group, he has committed us to pursuing performance in general as well as specifically with Metal on the Mac platform. But that is not a statement about specific timing of when these features will be publicly available, nor is it a promise about exactly what parts of the application will be taking advantage of this technology when that time comes.

                                                     

                                                    My statements here have been meant to prevent the misunderstanding that there is a specific short-term commitment to release features of this nature in any specific version of After Effects.

                                                     

                                                    I apologize for the confusion.

                                                    • 24. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                      carlr89517913 Level 1

                                                      That is not a clarification. Your initial response "we have made no commitment to any specific GPU acceleration technology at this time" was false. Simply admit that and move on. If you had instead said "there is not a specific short-term commitment to release features of this nature in any specific version of After Effects" there would have been no news headlines, because everyone understood the WWDC technology demo was forward-looking.

                                                       

                                                      Dave is the decision maker in this scenario. It's astonishing that someone from marketing would continue to double-down on the confusion caused by your initial mistake.

                                                      • 25. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                        sltplz Level 1

                                                        Adobe optimizing their software? Please... We wait nearly 2 years to have an almost valid Illustrator on Retina hardware. They just laugh at us.

                                                        • 26. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                          Nilsio Level 1

                                                          Well, whatever they go with it's clear AE has a very exciting future as responsiveness is the biggest handicap for working in AE right now for me.

                                                          So thanks to the engineer for exploring the options and thanks to Todd for steering the ship.

                                                          • 27. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                            Printhouse Level 1

                                                            Very good that he has committed you to increasing performance and responsiveness because your apps need that urgently, especially AI.

                                                            • 28. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                              barubin88 Level 1

                                                              Todd what is the deal?  Is adobe using Metal cc16 or what?

                                                              • 29. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                                Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                barubin88 wrote:

                                                                 

                                                                why wouldn't you use metal? It seems to make ae faster.

                                                                I don't think you understand what you saw in the keynote. Metal wasn't "making After Effects faster". Metal was accelerating a few, very specific effects to demonstrate the possibilities of using Metal; it was not making After Effects faster across the board.

                                                                 

                                                                barubin88 wrote:

                                                                 

                                                                Todd what is the deal?  Is adobe using Metal cc16 or what?

                                                                Todd very specifically said that they have not committed to any sort of timeline.

                                                                I think Todd's clarification made things very clear about that (and about the whole confusion in the first place). Try to read through it again.

                                                                If English isn't your first language and you need us to try to explain it to you further, let us know.

                                                                • 30. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                                  barubin88 Level 1

                                                                  Hey Szalam,

                                                                   

                                                                  I hope you are doing well and I appreciate you taking time out of your day to help me out. 


                                                                  I'm not totally clear on what Todd is saying. I guess my main issue is that it seems that Todd's posts contradict what was said at the Apple event and what David posted yesterday.   Do you agree with that or am I missing something?

                                                                   

                                                                  Have a good one.

                                                                  • 31. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                                    Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                    Reading Todd's post, it seems like he's saying the research and development team (who are independent of the AE team) are committed to improving performance across the board and Metal specifically is part of it. So, Adobe is working with Metal and other technologies to see how to improve ALL of their apps. However, the After Effects team specifically are not committed to using Metal in AE at any particular moment in time. They are working with Metal and a variety of other things to try to improve AE.

                                                                    Just because Metal can accelerate one or two specific effects does not mean it will work in any sort of complex compositing environment. Todd is simply trying to keep people from having unrealistic expectations. Some folks seemed to assume from the keynote that as soon as they upgraded to El Capitan, AE would be 8x faster in every aspect. They completely misunderstood what was being said in the keynote.

                                                                     

                                                                    I don't see Todd and David's messages as counter to each other. They are working with Metal (and other things) and will be bringing all of the best options to the Creative Cloud apps.

                                                                     

                                                                    I've met members of the After Effects team, including Todd, and from conversations I've had with them, they are quite dedicated to improving performance as their number one goal with AE. I think that is a very worthy goal. I'm glad they're no longer wasting resources on flashy and useless features (like the ray-traced renderer) and are now focused on making software that increases my productivity and renders more quickly.

                                                                    • 32. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                                      gantabrelhoem Level 1

                                                                      whether you are juridically on safe ground not having announced a definite AE feature or a release date - it is quite awkward to show such a if-metal-then-"experiment" on this kind of stage. every viewer understood this as: we will have Metal support with the release of El Capitan and/or CC16.


                                                                      you tricked the expectations of the audience knowingly. quite sad.

                                                                      • 33. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                                        Peru Bob Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                        At shows of all kinds (CES, car shows, boat shows, wholesaler shows),  there is experimental and cutting edge stuff being showcased.  Not all of it makes it to the finished product immediately and sometimes it never does.

                                                                        • 34. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                                          Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                          gantabrelhoem wrote:

                                                                           

                                                                          every viewer understood this as: we will have Metal support with the release of El Capitan and/or CC16.

                                                                          I agree with Peru Bob. At shows like this, I expect to see cutting edge stuff too, not just stuff that is coming out now. I saw it and thought, "Oooh, that's neat, I wonder if it will ever work in an actual production environment." I didn't think for a second that it was coming in the OS update or the next version of AE. However, I could see how it could be misunderstood that way.

                                                                          • 35. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                                            ultrastatic Level 1

                                                                            There are a few things not quite right here:

                                                                             

                                                                            - To get the 15 minutes of fame in the Apple spotlight, Adobe is "promising" stuff that we might not get. Not nice.

                                                                            - Adobe is incredibly unfocused. How much of the dev resources actually go the applications that people use? Looking for new customers or looking to keep the old customers in?

                                                                            - Actually all I need from CC is After Effects, because both Illustrator and Photoshop have excellent and cheap alternatives for my type of use. Is it still worth the costs for me? If you look at bugginess, few new features, speed issues, it seems that Adobe is looking to cut down expenses in the dev department for After Effects to fund a myriad of random apps and desktop applications..

                                                                            - Bring in more developers. Sure that's not always the best answer, but AE needs to improve on so many levels.

                                                                            • 36. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                                              Matthieu-on Level 1

                                                                              I am waiting for it - me and my nMP dual GPU - watiing, waiting.. 

                                                                              Any GPU support would do it..   just do it please.

                                                                              • 37. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                                                dissidently Level 1

                                                                                In direct answer to the OP's question...

                                                                                 

                                                                                As soon as they get a rapidly responsive UI, multi-core rendering, audio stability and guide snapping sorted.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Sometime in 2020, perhaps.

                                                                                 

                                                                                One thing at a time.

                                                                                 

                                                                                The rest of 2015 will be wasted determining who is responsible for communicating with the users, and how.

                                                                                 

                                                                                This will roll through most of 2016, too. With some sackings determining the results.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Todd, ever heard the the expression "Jump, jump before you are pushed"?

                                                                                 

                                                                                If not, now's the time to grasp its meaning.

                                                                                • 38. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                                                  christood Level 1

                                                                                  I have the same "problem" with the new macbook pro mid2015 and the GPU AMD Radeon R9 M370X 2048 MB. I guess needs some update. My old iMac early 2009 with nvidia GPU support that just cause cuda. Hope you guys will come with an about soon

                                                                                   

                                                                                  p.s also illustrator have compatibility issue with the new macbook pro (mid2015) and the multi GPU (I've turn the GPU auto switching of and is working fine)

                                                                                  • 39. Re: when will after effects use Metal.
                                                                                    ericsbowman Level 1

                                                                                    AMD cards are supported by After Effects. If they weren't supported, you wouldn't be able to use it period. There's a lot of misunderstanding about this issue.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    The only disadvantage I've noticed to having an AMD GPU is that Raytracing is not GPU accelerated. So, if you are using AE's 3D tools just use the Classic 3D Renderer...not Raytracing. Most heavy 3D work can easily be done in C4D or Element 3D and make AE's raytracing/3D options a poor choice on projects. I have the newest Mac Pro and have not found this to be an issue whatsoever. It still kills my old Mac Pro in terms of RAM previews and overall rendering.

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