24 Replies Latest reply on Oct 6, 2015 2:52 PM by Photo_1985

    Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC

    Photo_1985

      Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade.

       

      Because no one can have a computer that performs all function as quickly as desired, one needs to manage their computer resources according to their needs, budget and bang for the buck. Below is a basic question pertaining to Adobe Premiere Pro 2015 CC.

       

      Need better viewing without jerky stuttering viewing and overall better performance incease.

      Would I do better with? (Choose one please)

      1. Going from one SSD to 2 SSD in a RAID 0 configuration – Cost about $350.
      2. Upping my video card from NVIDA GeForce GTX 560 Ti  to a NVIDA GeForce GTX 970 Overclocked 4GB GDDR5 Video Card – $350.
      3. Going from Win 7 Pro 64-bit to Win 10 Pro 64-bit.

      Please explain why you made your choice.


      Thanks in advance,

      Tom

        • 1. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I don't think anyone can really give a good answer without knowing the rest of your hardware

           

          So, to start, read Tweakers Page - especially the "balanced" information

          • 2. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
            cc_merchant Level 4

            4. Get a better CPU and overclock it.

            5. Increase memory to 32 GB.

            6. Add a Samsung 950 Pro.

             

            Better than 1 till 3.

            • 3. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              I don't believe any of those will correct a stuttering playback issue, which shouldn't happen even with the equipment you have now.

               

              I'm thinking something else is wrong.

              • 4. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                Photo_1985 Level 1

                Thank you cc_merchant for your reply,

                 

                Please, choose from the items listed and which one item will give the most

                bang for the buck.  That one item may or may not solve the issue(s), but

                helps the most.  I already have a Samsung 950 Pro, are you saying getting a

                second one for RAID 0 is the best choice?

                 

                Let's clear the air, because I did not give very much info and I am sorry I

                didn't.  I have:

                Two, Samsung 950's, one for my C: drive and one for my I: drive.

                 

                My C: Drive has my (OS) Wiin 7 Pro 64-bit and all installed programs.

                 

                My I drive is my basic video working drive (my working drive where my Video

                clips, audio and other stuff is stored and where all Adobe programs save

                to, auto save to, and render files to).  Adobe After Effects stores its

                Disk Cache on my C: drive because it suggests that gives better performance

                (*For improved performance, choose a disk cache folder on a fast hard drive

                or SSD separate from your footage, and allocate as much space as possible*.)

                 

                BTW: A better CPU will be way way way over the $350 price point and why it

                is not one of the choices.

                 

                Please respond back and give your insight, I do value it.

                 

                Tom

                 

                 

                On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 1:02 PM, cc_merchant <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                • 5. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                  Photo_1985 Level 1

                  Thank you J. Simon for your reply,

                   

                  Sorry I was so unclear (bad me).  I did not mean to suggest I have a

                  problem.

                   

                  If you load Pr clips with enough CPU intensive Video Effects, any computers

                  will have a little to a major issue playing back without rendering

                  depending on the computer.

                   

                   

                  Please respond back and give your insight, I do value it.  Remember Bang

                  for the buck and the buck is around $350.  You may be wondering why only

                  $350???  That is because I am waiting for Intel's next latest, greatest

                  Dual Xeon processors.  Why, because it brings the cost down of the current

                  Xeon processors which I am looking at.  But that is tomorrow, now back to

                  today.

                   

                  Thanks,

                  Tom

                  • 6. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    Ah, yes.  With effects involved, that's a different story.

                     

                    I just moved from a 560 Ti to a 960 4GB card, and I notice the improvement on only one third-party effect which relies on a CUDA level the 560 doesn't support.  The native effects are running as well as they were before, so a new GPU, while not a bad idea at some point, might not be the best option for this particular issue.

                     

                    And I do advocate having five separate internal drives before you even think about any kind of RAID.

                     

                    C: Windows & Programs

                    D: Project files, still images, audio files

                    E: Cache and Scratch

                    F: Camera media only

                    G: Exports

                     

                    So that takes the new SSD off the table.

                     

                    And I've seen enough reports of folks having oddball issues with Windows 10 that I recommend not using it just yet.

                     

                    So...I'm thinking your best option here might be to just render the effects heavy portions of the timeline.  It's free.  And using Cineform as the preview option, it's fairly quick and the quality is good enough to use for export so you don't have to rerender.

                    • 7. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                      R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      J. Simon's suggestions are spot-on. PrPro's work is very hardware intensive, and realistically the disk read/write work is the biggest thing to solve to get started. The grouping of project parts on various drives he lists it as good as any.

                       

                      Why? These top three have a massive amount each of read & write ... constant. You don't need "theoretical" connection speeds, you need actual sustained ... which is why he recommended internal eSATA II or better.

                      1)  Cache files ... meaning both cache files and cache database ... have a ton of constant read-write work from disc. You don't want them "competing" for in/out time over the connections with anything else.

                      2) Preview files/scratch files also can do a ton of in/out work ... again, separate them out for speedier throughput.

                      3) Project files, stills/graphics & audio files can live together on one drive.

                       

                      One-way tripping ... as long as they are NOT on the same drive!

                      4) Camera media ...

                      5) Exports ...

                       

                      By "2k" ... standard HD 1080p you're maxing out many in/out chains ... you go 4k, you need good speed. And exports ... again, there can be a lot of transfer but it's almost all one-way, so if these are on separate drives they can possibly be on externals running eSATA II or particularly Thunderbolt (best external).

                       

                      At need ... you can export to or read 2k HD media from a fast flashdrive on a USB3 port. And get by.

                       

                      Better if you've got the internal drives for it all.

                       

                      Now ... a hardware striped RAID array of say 4-6 4Tb drives will also work.

                       

                      Neil

                      • 8. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                        Photo_1985 Level 1

                        Neil,

                        All sounds good but not realistic for my use.  RAID array of 4 -6 Four Tb

                        drive will never happen in my world.  I do not need that much space for

                        this build, not even close to it.  Plus if I was going to RAID anything, it

                        would be faster and smaller SSD's or PCIe SSD's.  SATA is yesterday, but

                        still worth the lower end dollar.  But a major upgrade is waiting for my

                        next build, not this one.  A total of 2-4 TB is fine and the 5 SSD's will

                        do that very well.  I already have 2 SSD's and just need to purchase 3

                        more.  A little more than I wanted to spend, but still reasonable.

                         

                        Cineform is a great idea, but already using it on everything.  Generally I

                        do not use too many computer intensive effects in Pr.  If I feel it is

                        needed, and often do, I use AE and make a GoPro Cineform mov file with the

                        effects required.  Then if I need to add something I forgot, I and reload

                        it with AE and add away, even just loading the mov file and adding effects

                        (second generation) if fine.  But I rarely every back up those files

                        because they are too large.  At the end I will convert all use mov file to

                        much smaller h264 files for storage.  If really needed, I can reconstruct

                        as required.

                         

                        Thanks,

                        Tom

                         

                        On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 12:15 AM, R Neil Haugen <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                        • 9. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                          Photo_1985 Level 1

                          I was thinking that about the video card issue but not sure.  I didn't want

                          to waste money and time trying it out just to find it was not all that

                          great of a move.  Just wondering, does it speed up the rendering?

                           

                          The only problem I have with your 5 drive idea is backup of videos made.

                          It would have to be a major improvement over RAID for me to consider the

                          idea because of the back-up issue.  Also, thanks for the heads up on Win 10.

                           

                          Thanks,

                          Tom

                          • 10. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                            I have not yet seen any improvement in export speeds with the new card, excepting when that one third-party effect is in use. (FilmConvert)

                             

                            My recommended five drives does not include a backup or archiving system.  You would need that in addition to the five listed drives.  They can also be internal, I prefer external.

                            • 11. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                              cc_merchant Level 4

                              I assume you are misstaken about having two Samsung 950's. They have only been on the market since October 1st. Please tell me your motherboard with its two m.2 connections, since I could not find them.

                               

                              How much memory do you have, which CPU and what clock speed?

                              • 12. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                                Photo_1985 Level 1

                                J. Simon,

                                I gathered that and back up would be more time consuming plus organizing the back would be a pain, but can be done.  I tend to like the 5 drive idea more and more.  Just trying to decide if I want to go that route or just wait for the next computer build, lots of new stuff about to come out.  The RAID would be the cheapest because it only requires one more add SSD instead of three.  But the cheapest is leaving it alone because I really don't have anything other than an occasional render on a computer intensive clip.  Most everything plays perfectly.

                                 

                                Thanks again for your input,

                                Tom

                                • 13. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                                  Photo_1985 Level 1

                                  cc_merchant,

                                   

                                  CPU changes are out of the question.   I am not going to get that much of a boost overclocking more when I am already overclocked now.  Also, the purchase of a faster CPU is too expensive for this build.

                                   

                                  As far a overclocking, I am going back to Turbo-boost and stopping overclocking today.  There was not enough of an edge on 95% of my video work to justify it.  Even the 5% that overclocking helped, the benefit was small and it was mainly rendering and CPU intensive Effects on a clip.  I have found it much better to do the CPU intensive clip in AE and make a GoPro Cineform mov file.  Even if I choose to render problematic clips in Pr,it only takes a minute or two.  Rendering may become an issue if I have many problematic clips in Pr, but that is rare. As far as the slower render speed going back to Turbo-Boost will provide, if I have a major render job to do (almost never) I will just do it at night while I sleep and the slower render speed won't matter.

                                   

                                  As far as memory, I am already maxed out.

                                   

                                  So far, I most likely will choose to do nothing.  I like the 5 drive idea, but don't want to spend the money on the current build.  That basically leaves me with Win 10 (which is free) and or an added SSD Samsung 840 Pro (ya, a slip of the brain there) for a RAID 0 which I am not too pleased with because it requires purchase of an older SSD.

                                   

                                  Thanks again for your suggestions,

                                  Tom

                                  • 14. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                                    Photo_1985 Level 1

                                    John T. Smith,

                                    Sorry, I just so your post and realized I did not respond. Sorry.  I really did not want to make a big thing out of this, but I had about $350 to spend on my current build.  As I saw it, for $350, that eliminates most upgrades and I am already max out on Memory.

                                     

                                    Because Win 10 is a free upgrade, that can be pulled from the choices and that basically leaves only two.  Purchase another 940 Pro to make my working drive a two drive RAID 0 which would increase read & write speeds (helpful for scrolling),  or  Purchase an upgrade to my video card.  I have heard that the upgrade in the video card may give surprisingly good result, but I also heard it would be money wasted.  That is why I limited to those two items.

                                     

                                    I do not want to spend too much now, because I am planning on the purchase of a new build next year.

                                     

                                    Thank you for your input, it is most welcomed.

                                    Tom

                                    • 15. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                                      cc_merchant Level 4

                                      Still waiting for the answer to my question: How much memory do you have, which CPU and what clock speed?

                                      • 16. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                                        Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Tom,

                                         

                                        My opinion and my test results show that the old rule of 3-5 hard disk drives for the Premiere performance is now obsolete with the much higher speed of SSD's available especially if:

                                        1. Your motherboard can support at least several SATA III 6 Gbits/second ports or better.
                                        2. Your workflow does not require immense amounts of near-online storage.
                                        3. You can afford the higher cost per GB of storage.
                                        4. Your system is properly configured and tuned.

                                         

                                        I just finished a simple 50 minute 4K (XAVC-S) edit on this 2-year old laptop with a 840 Pro SSD for the OS/applications/media cache and a Samsung T1 USB 3.0 Flash Drive for the media and project files

                                        • 17. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                                          Photo_1985 Level 1

                                          cc_,merchant,

                                           

                                          Below is the information you have requested.  Not sure why you want it because it is totally irrelevant to the question I posted with a $350 price range .  But you ask a couple times so I thought perhaps you have good reason to ask and I was overlooking something.

                                           

                                          I have following:

                                          Memory:     24GB and maxed out. 

                                          Processor:  Intel i7CPU X990 (Water Cooled)

                                          Clock Speed:  3.91 GHz overclocked **


                                          I am not going to buy another motherboard, memory or CPU.  That is for the next build. 

                                          ** as of today, I returned the CPU back to Stock Turbo-Boost (max of 3.47 GHz) with very little reduction of performance. Yes, I also increased overclocking around 4.1GHz at one point, while noticeably faster than Turbo-Boost, there was little benefit in performance and it was not worth stressing the CPU that way.

                                           

                                          Please remember, Bang for the Buck and the Buck is $350.


                                          Thanks again for your guidance,

                                          Tom

                                          • 18. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                                            Photo_1985 Level 1

                                            Bill,

                                             

                                            What would you do for $350 if anything?  Would you up the video board or SSD in RAID 0?

                                             

                                            • Your motherboard can support at least several SATA III 6 Gbits/second ports or better.  Yes it does
                                            • Your workflow does not require immense amounts of near-online storage. I do not require near-online storage
                                            • You can afford the higher cost per GB of storage.  I have two SSD's now and thinking of purchasing one more if RAID 0 is chosen over do nothing or upping the video card.
                                            • Your system is properly configured and tuned.  Yes, to the best of my ability.

                                             

                                            Thanks for your thoughts,

                                            Tom

                                            • 19. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                                              cc_merchant Level 4

                                              Thanks for the info. Adding a SSD and raiding them can only be done on the Intel based SATA 6G ports on your mobo. You can not effectively use the two Marvell based SATA 6G ports, because they are pretty slow. The fact that overclocking has no discernible difference is an indication that you have too many background processes running and your system is not properly tuned. See Tweakers Page - Tuning Guide

                                              Why have you invested in water cooling when you do not overclock seriously? 3.91 is not overclocking seriously. You can easily run at 4.4 GHz on air cooling, on water even more.

                                              • 20. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                                                RjL190365 Level 4

                                                Tom,

                                                 

                                                At this point you're pretty much stuck to a GPU upgrade. You see, that GTX 560 Ti is no longer properly supported in Premiere Pro CC 2015 when it comes to MPE GPU acceleration. As such, you may experience random and/or repeated program crashes which are only fixed when you disable MPE GPU acceleration and run Premiere in MPE software-only mode.

                                                 

                                                The other upgrades are out of the question: That i7-990X CPU uses the now-seven-year-old Intel X58 chipset, whose native Intel SATA ports are limited to SATA II (3 Gbps, or 300 MB/second) throughput. Any SATA 3 or USB 3.0 support on motherboards which use such an old chipset comes entirely from third-party add-on chipsets from companies such as NEC/Renesas and Marvell. And we all know how slow are the Marvell SATA 3.0 ports perform compared to Intel's native SATA 3 implementation on newer chipsets. Unfortunately, a CPU upgrade would have exceeded the $350 maximum budget because both the CPU and motherboard (and probably RAM as well) must be replaced with such an upgrade. And additional SSD upgrades are out of the question because newer SATA SSDs would have been restricted by the 270 MB/second maximum sustainable throughput of SATA II.

                                                 

                                                As such, the only feasible upgrade would be a new GPU for your now-five-year-old system.

                                                 

                                                Good luck on your upgrade quest,

                                                Randall

                                                • 21. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                                                  Photo_1985 Level 1

                                                  Thank you for your info CC but that is why I am not thinking of or plan to upgrade this computer. 


                                                  As far as what you said, "The fact that overclocking has no discernible difference is an indication that you have too many background processes running and your system is not properly tuned." was not what I meant to say or imply.  I said, "yes, I also increased overclocking around 4.1GHz at one point, while noticeably faster thanTurbo-Boost, there was little benefit in performance and it was not worth stressing the CPU that way.


                                                  Sorry for any confusion.  When I said there was little benefit in performance, perhaps I should not have said performance and just left it at, there was little benefit in productivity for my needs.   Meaning while noticeably faster, it really didn't help me in my real life work productivity.


                                                  Why did I invest on a water cooling system, because it came with it and I wanted to toy with overclocking.  I used overclocking for many years.


                                                  So back to the questions

                                                  1) Do nothing

                                                  2) RAID 0 with two SSD's

                                                  3) Upgrade Video Card

                                                  Limit - around $350


                                                  Thanks again for your guidance,

                                                  Tom

                                                  • 22. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                                                    Photo_1985 Level 1

                                                    Randall, and everyone else,


                                                    First, My Storage Controllers:

                                                    JMicron FMB36X Controller

                                                    Marvell 91xx SATA6G Controller

                                                    Marvell RAID Console


                                                    This was difficult to mark who gave the correct answer because several seem correct.  I almost thinking it is best to save the $350 for a complete computer upgrade.  I have my eye on a two Xeon processors computer upgrade next year, that is why such little investment now.  I am waiting for Intel to come out it the next generation Xeon's to drive the price of the current chips down a bit. 


                                                    I know I can RAID 0 two SSD's because I did that before one errored on me.  Then I bought a new SSE as the replacement and put the second SSD on the former RAID 0 to replace my C: HDD.  I know there is a bottleneck, but still it was much faster than a single HDD.  The RAID 0 was even faster (it was on my working I:drive).  So I do know there is a speed increase with RAID 0, but I was questioning if the Video Card Upgrade would be better.  I do believe you have directly answer that and I thank you.


                                                    I gave you the correct answer, unless someone can convince me I made an error.


                                                    Tom

                                                    • 23. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                      back up would be more time consuming plus organizing the back would be a pain

                                                       

                                                      Time consuming, a little.  But not so much of a pain if done right.

                                                       

                                                      I copy the media first from the card to my external drive, and then from there to my internal Media drive.  Backup...done.

                                                      • 24. Re: Need your guidance choosing the better upgrade for Premiere Pro CC
                                                        Photo_1985 Level 1

                                                          After reading the suggestions, I do believe I am going to do nothing

                                                        or maybe get a Video Card.  I am reluctant to do the Video Card because

                                                        when I purchase another build, the purchased card may be obsolete and that

                                                        is $350 wasted UNLESS....      I don't like doing what I am thinking

                                                        because it drives up cost for everyone, but....   I may purchase a Video

                                                        Card if I can return it if it does not do what I am hoping for.  If it

                                                        surprises me with gladness, then I will keep it.  But if the only way I can

                                                        do this is to lie and say it does not work, when it does, I won't do that.

                                                        I know it is done all the time, but I can't bring myself to do that.

                                                         

                                                        If I get the Video Card, I will post the results and what I believe I

                                                        gained.

                                                        Thank you J. Simon and everyone else for the great suggestion(s) and

                                                        reason(s) behind for the suggestion(s).  It helps me, and many others not

                                                        to only learn what to do, but why.  The Adobe family on this forum is A++

                                                        in my book.

                                                         

                                                        Thanks,

                                                        Tom