13 Replies Latest reply on Oct 25, 2015 4:52 PM by albalapse

    New System Build Advice Needed

    KyleAndrew

      Hey folks, I've recently upgraded to the Sony A7R II camera system for my still photography and video work. 81mb RAW files and SLOG2 4k footage seems to be no joke and as it stands, I think its time to build a new system. I'm having trouble narrowing down certain parts, but here is where things stand:

       

      Intel Skylake 6700k

      Z170 Motherboard undecided/confused

      32gb (16x2) or 64gb (16x4) RAM - currently undecided about specific model, or whether to go to 64, as I am currently only using 8gb ram and it seems like the jump to 32 would be plenty

      Main system Drive - Samsung 950pro when available

      Main thumbnail/cache/etc drive - OCZ vertex 100gb SSD in my current system (I actually have two of these)

      Main working files/projects drive - 1tb Samsung 850 PRO (unless I spot something else on sale for a GREAT price like I missed out on last week)

      Main system storage drive - 4TB Western Digital Black

      All other backups go to external NAS units etc.

      Video Card - undecided whether to pay the big bucks for the TITAN or not, or stick with a lower end geforce card with 6gb memory

      Power Supply - completely undecided, listen to recommendations/reasoning loud and clear

       

      So you know, I plan to run Windows 7 Ultimate on this machine.

       

      In advance, any comments, suggestions, or arguments is VERY much appreciated.

       

      Kyle

        • 1. Re: New System Build Advice Needed
          cc_merchant Level 4

          32 GB is the maximum for this mobo unless you go for very expensive 16 GB sticks, but there is no need to. Simply use 4x8 sticks.

          Forget about a Titan. A GTX 970 is even a little overkill and maybe a 960 is the best choice.

          Use the 850 (256 GB) for OS, use the 950 for the rest and the big 850 for media.

          • 2. Re: New System Build Advice Needed
            KyleAndrew Level 1

            Out of curiosity, what is the rationale for not using the fastest drive in my list (the 950 pro) as the main system/apps drive?

            • 3. Re: New System Build Advice Needed
              cc_merchant Level 4

              Once a program is loaded, there is no need to access the OS disk. However, media cache, previews and conformed audio need to be accessed all the time for both reading and writing.

              • 4. Re: New System Build Advice Needed
                RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                i agree with cc_merchant, however if you cannot fit cache/project/preview and media files all on the samsung 950, then its overkill and money that could be better spent. if you can, then you dont need the 1tb ssd, and you can offload projects when done to the 4tb wd hdd. if everything wont fit, then get two 500gb samsung 850's and raid them on the motherboard to raid-0 for your media and use the ocz drives for cache/db etc. either way you should be saving money on a drive that you can place into the cpu/mbd and go with a faster x99 system.

                • 5. Re: New System Build Advice Needed
                  KyleAndrew Level 1

                  okay so then what would we say is the IDEAL hard drive setup for such a system, in your opinion, RoninEdits and cc_merchant

                   

                  Also I was not aware that x99 would be faster than the latest Skylake and its corresponding chipset. Is this because X99 can use processors with more cores?

                  • 6. Re: New System Build Advice Needed
                    KyleAndrew Level 1

                    Okay so based on the feedback here, further reading, and some feedback elsewhere, here is what I am now looking at. Keep in mind, I have not done price comparisons, cross shopping etc. so everything is still up in the air:

                     

                    new build.JPG

                    Again, don't worry about the prices and what not, I just added those to a shopping cart to make viewing easier. All prices are in CAN dollars.

                     

                    So in summary, I'm thinking X99 chipset with an i7 5930k six core processor (seems to be the go to for video work), 32gigs of RAM leaving 4 slots free to double it down the road, the motherboard supports NVME drives of which I'm now considering buying a 256gb Samsung 950pro for applications and OS, and a second 512mb one for working files, I will have two-three spare 100gig SSD drives, and the 4tb black series for in-tower storage of recent projects etc. The power supply was admittedly a shot in the dark. I have lowered my costs on the video card to a 960 with 4gb on board.

                     

                    Now my main question is, what would the improvements be to move to a higher clock speed video card with more RAM on board. For example, for 3x the price, would a titan with 12gb be MUCH faster for my purposes using the CC apps? It is highly unlikely that I do any gaming whatsoever, but I can't currently decide if a 960 with 4gb is 'enough' card.

                     

                    I'm not shy about the idea of running the components, for say, a year until I upgrade, as I imagine in a year a much faster card with say 8-12gb on board would be much more reasonable in price.

                     

                    Thoughts?

                    • 7. Re: New System Build Advice Needed
                      cc_merchant Level 4

                      IDEAL may not be ideal for everybody, because of the price tags. Only SSD is considered here.

                       

                      Let's start with the number of distinct volumes for superb performance.

                      1. OS & programs, 256 GB is enough.
                      2. Media cache and previews. Usually 512 GB is enough.
                      3. Media. May require several TB.
                      4. Projects. Usually 512 GB is enough.
                      5. Exports. Usually 512 GB is enough.

                       

                      Now let's move on to the connections used and the maximum transfer rates on each.

                      • SATA 6G: 550 R, 520 W
                      • SAS3: 1100 R, 1000 W
                      • m.2: 2000 R, 1500 W
                      • PCIe 4x: 2800 R, 2000+ W
                      • Areca 1883 raid controller: 4000+ R, 4000+ W

                       

                      Caveat: Adobe software allows custom settings for media cache, projects, auto-saves and previews but does not allow customization of temp files anywhere else than in the user profile! A serious shortcoming that has not been rectified, despite Adobe's public admission of this flaw at IBC 2012. You would expect that 3 years is time enough to rectify this, but Adobe works in mysterious ways... Or better said, does not work.

                       

                      Normally, the OS volume does not need to be super fast because it does not impact the editing experience. But with the user profile located on the boot disk by Windows and the limitation of Adobe software described above, the speed of the OS disk does impact editing performance. For that reason the best connection for the boot disk is m.2

                       

                      Obviously, the media cache & preview volume determines to a very large extent how 'snappy' the editing experience will be. Thus it must be a m.2 or PCIe 4x connected drive. However, the price tag of a good PCIe drive like the Intel DC P3700 or OCZ Z drive is rather prohibitive.

                       

                      Anyway, it is a pity there is only 1 motherboard that gives two m.2 slots, the ASRock X99 Extreme11. All other motherboards currently are limited to a single m.2 slot.

                       

                      Now the volume for media. Because of the required storage space that can run over 2 TB, it makes a lot of sense to get an Areca ARC-1883ix-16 raid controller with 8 GB of cache. Admitted, they are costly around € 1200, but in the end it may well turn out to be the best and more affordable option.

                       

                      So, what does the ideal storage setup look like? Like this:

                      • C: OS & programs, pagefile, temp and user profile : Samsung 950 Pro m.2 - 256 GB
                      • D: Media cache & previews : Samsung 950 Pro m.2 - 512 GB
                      • E: Media : 8 x Samsung 850 Pro - 512 GB in raid3 on Areca ARC-1883ix (3.5 TB storage)
                      • F: Projects & Exports : 5+ x Samsung 850 Pro - 256 GB in raid3 on Areca ARC-1883ix (1 TB storage)

                       

                      An alternative for the D: second m.2 drive could be 4 x Samsung 850 Pro - 256 GB in raid0 on Areca ARC-1883ix ( 1 TB).

                       

                      Total cost of this disk setup would be around €  4500, less than a single Intel DC P3700 - 2 TB and much faster with much more storage capacity. (5.5 TB versus 2 TB). You can shave off more than € 800 if you do not need all the storage space on your media volume, by using 256 GB disks.

                      • 8. Re: New System Build Advice Needed
                        cc_merchant Level 4

                        If you plan to over clock this system to around 4.4 GHz, then the 970 is the better choice over the 960. If you use a lot of 4K or even higher resolution material, then the 980 may be the better choice, because of the memory architecture. If your disk setup starts to look like I described in the previous post and you double the memory, the video card of choice may be the 980Ti. The Titan is not worth the money.

                        • 9. Re: New System Build Advice Needed
                          KyleAndrew Level 1

                          Thank you so much for your reply. I was basically looking for the IDEAL setup listed like this, so that I could work backwards from it into my budget. So given that, how would this be as a setup:

                           

                          C: Samsung 950 pro m.2 -256gb

                          D: Media Cache and previews - Samsung 950 pro m.2 512gb

                          E: Media: 1x current high speed SSD 512gb-1tb, thinking Samsung 850 still

                          F: Projects and Exports: 4tb Western Digital Black 7200rpm

                           

                          Or:

                           

                          F: Projects: 4tb Western Digital Black 7200rpm

                          G: Exports: one of my current SSD drives on hand

                           

                          If you could comment on the above, which would all be within my budget for this build, it would be appreciated.

                           

                          I will likely be editing no higher than 4k Sony SLOG2 or 3 footage for the time being, and i hear your point about moving up to a 980ti. Do you believe it is truly worth it if cost is a concern? I'm not planning to build a heap system, but $500 or so difference is a factor. If you say it will in fact make the editing experience significantly better, then I'm in. Is the jump from 4gb to 8gb video memory that signiificant in the user experience?

                          cc_merchant wrote:

                           

                          IDEAL may not be ideal for everybody, because of the price tags. Only SSD is considered here.

                           

                           

                          So, what does the ideal storage setup look like? Like this:

                          • C: OS & programs, pagefile, temp and user profile : Samsung 950 Pro m.2 - 256 GB
                          • D: Media cache & previews : Samsung 950 Pro m.2 - 512 GB
                          • E: Media : 8 x Samsung 850 Pro - 512 GB in raid3 on Areca ARC-1883ix (3.5 TB storage)
                          • F: Projects & Exports : 5+ x Samsung 850 Pro - 256 GB in raid3 on Areca ARC-1883ix (1 TB storage)

                           

                          An alternative for the D: second m.2 drive could be 4 x Samsung 850 Pro - 256 GB in raid0 on Areca ARC-1883ix ( 1 TB).

                           

                          Total cost of this disk setup would be around €  4500, less than a single Intel DC P3700 - 2 TB and much faster with much more storage capacity. (5.5 TB versus 2 TB). You can shave off more than € 800 if you do not need all the storage space on your media volume, by using 256 GB disks.

                          • 10. Re: New System Build Advice Needed
                            cc_merchant Level 4

                            C: good.

                            D: good (€ 325), but it limits you to the ASRock X99 Extreme11 mobo. (€ 680)

                            Alternative: Asus X99-E WS mobo (€ 485),3 x Samsung 850 Pro - 256 GB ( 3 x € 130) in raid0 on SATA 6G ports on the mobo. It gives you even extra space, is equally fast as a m.2 drive and is slightly less expensive.

                            E: good (1 TB € 440). Consider putting both your media and projects on this drive.

                            F: OK for exports and backups of mainly your E: drive.

                             

                            Exports can also be done to a Samsung T1 USB3 external 1 TB drive (€ 385) or 500 GB (€ 210), which is pretty fast, very convenient and not too expensive.

                            • 11. Re: New System Build Advice Needed
                              RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                              i believe eric from adk said premiere doesn't really use more than 3.5gb vram. so if that's the case, the extra memory in the 6gb or 12gb cards wouldn't offer any benefit to premiere. that leaves just the processing power of the cards to factor, which once past the 970 they become expensive. it would depend on how many gpu effects (premiere, lumetri, or third party), you plan on using to help decide how powerful you want to go. if you plan on doing red footage at some point, or working with color apps like speedgrade or davinci resolve the 980 ti would be minimum.

                               

                              4-5+ disk setups are a carry over from hdd's that were 150-200mb transfer speeds. with sata ssd's and especially now with pcie ssd's (over 10x faster,) the number of drives needed to produce the same speed is greatly reduced. its possible to use a single pcie ssd such as the samsung 950 pro, for os/apps/db/cache/previews and media, as long as they all fit. as this technology develops there will be larger m.2, u.2, and pcie ssd's to support more size requirements for larger projects. if multiple m.2's are needed its possible to use a m.2 to pcie adapter instead of finding a motherboard with two x4/ultra m.2 slots, or just go with a pcie ssd like the intel 750. if m.2/pcie ssd's are to expensive for one's budget or not large enough capacity, raid sata ssd can offer great speeds and larger capacity at a reduced price.

                               

                              C: Samsung 950 pro m.2 -256gb

                              D: Media Cache and previews - Samsung 950 pro m.2 512gb

                              E: Media: 1x current high speed SSD 512gb-1tb, thinking Samsung 850 still

                              F: Projects and Exports: 4tb Western Digital Black 7200rpm

                               

                              c: os/apps doesn't need more than sata ssd

                              d: cache doesn't need more than sata ssd, previews shouldn't get more speed than media which you plan on placing on sata ssd.

                              e: media is most important, sata ssd in raid-0 would offer 2x speed at no additional cost, or consider using m.2/pcie ssd here.

                              f: projects can be placed with cache or media drive.

                               

                              new optimal config might look like this:

                              c: samsung 950 pro - everything

                              d: 4tb wd hdd - os drive clone and project backups

                               

                              or

                              c: samsung 850 pro - os/apps

                              d: samsung 950 pro - cache/projects/previews/media

                              e: 4tb wd hdd - os drive clone and project backups

                               

                              or for more media space

                              c: samsung 850 pro - os/apps

                              d: samsung 850 pro 2+ in raid (motherboard or raid card) - cache/projects/previews/media

                              e: 4tb wd hdd - os drive clone and project backups

                              • 12. Re: New System Build Advice Needed
                                KyleAndrew Level 1

                                To both cc_merchant and RoninEdits I thank you very much as you've both given me more than enough information to make confident decisions when I'm ready to tackle this build. Very much appreciated.

                                • 13. Re: New System Build Advice Needed
                                  albalapse

                                  Likewise, thanks to cc_merchant and RoninEdits, I'm in a very similar situation, and your comments and suggestions have been very insightful.