18 Replies Latest reply on Oct 28, 2015 7:46 AM by cppasm

    Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop

    1ndivisible Level 1

      I am fully aware I can open a Lightroom DNG in Photoshop or Open a Lightroom DNG as a Smart Object In Photoshop, however in both cases the link between the original DNG and the Photoshop file is broken. In the former case, Photoshop renders the DNG (losing its RAW editability) and in the latter it embeds the RAW data within the Photoshop file and allows it to be edited as and when using ACR, but this data is now baked into the PSD.

       

      However, what I really want is a way to place a Lightroom DNG in a Photoshop document in the same way I could place (for example) an Illustrator file. So that what is rendered in Photoshop is a live version of the DNG, meaning any edits I make to the DNG in Lightroom are echoed in Photoshop. I have no interest or need in using ACR or editing the DNG from within Photoshop. All I need is for changes made in Lightroom to be reflected in Photoshop. I can do this with a variety of other file formats, but seemingly not using a Lightroom DNG.

        • 1. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
          Marianne-Deiters Adobe Community Professional

          Since Photoshop CC 2014 we have the ability to use "linked smart objects". You can access it from the FILE Menu in Photoshop.

          • 2. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
            deepakg1988 Adobe Employee

            Hi,

             

            DNG files contain raw image data. Photoshop is not capable of editing raw image data nor saving a file with raw image data. By the time the DNG file is open in Photoshop is no longer raw data. Camera Raw converts it to a RGB image file, and that is what is opened in Photoshop. When the Photoshop editing is completed that file has to be saved in a different file format such as PSD, TIFF.


            Thanks

            • 3. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
              1ndivisible Level 1

              Hi,

               

              > Since Photoshop CC 2014 we have the ability to use "linked smart objects". You can access it from the FILE Menu in Photoshop

               

              It seems that any changes made in Lightroom are forgotten when using 'Place Linked …'

               

              This is what I did:

               

                  1. Create PSD

                  2. Choose 'Place inked …'

                  3. Select a DNG file that I have edited in Lightroom from my Lightroom Catalogue

               

              In the ACR import dialogue, all the changes I have made in Lightroom are gone.

              • 4. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                1ndivisible Level 1

                Hi,

                 

                > DNG files contain raw image data. Photoshop is not capable of editing raw image data nor saving a file with raw image data. By the time the DNG file is open in Photoshop is no longer raw data. Camera Raw converts it to a RGB image file, and that is what is opened in Photoshop. When the Photoshop editing is completed that file has to be saved in a different file format such as PSD, TIFF.


                This is not an answer to my question. I don't want to edit the DNG in Photoshop or save the DNG, only to place the DNG within the PSD.


                • 5. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                  deepakg1988 Adobe Employee

                  yes the file itself will be saved back as a .psd file not a .dng file

                  • 6. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                    1ndivisible Level 1

                    I don't think you understood my question. I know that if I save a PSD it will be saved as a PSD. I'm asking about Linking a DNG file into a PSD in the same way I can Link an Illustrator document into a PSD, edit it in Illustrator and see it update in the PSD. I don't want to edit the DNG in Photoshop. I don't want to Save the Photoshop document as a DNG.

                    • 7. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                      Marianne-Deiters Adobe Community Professional

                      Right steps!

                       

                      I just tried it out again with a DNG (I usually work with NEF files) and it works fine for me. All the changes are visible when openeing the linked smart objekt in Photoshop. I use PS CC 2015

                      ____________________________

                       

                      This is what I did:

                       

                          1. Create PSD

                          2. Choose 'Place inked …'

                          3. Select a DNG file that I have edited in Lightroom from my Lightroom Catalogue

                       

                      In the ACR import dialogue, all the changes I have made in Lightroom are gone.

                      • 8. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                        1ndivisible Level 1

                        I hadn't set up Lightroom to write the Metadata to the DNG. Now I've done that, the changes are visible on import.

                        • 9. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                          cppasm Level 3

                          Could you please describe in more details your workflow?

                          I've been thinking  of using embedded DNG or RAW as a Smart Object but came to the conclusion that it's almost everytime useless...

                          Because if you edit DNG, than create PSD and embed DNG in it (or use linked Smart Object), perform some retouching on it, then change DNG edits - yes, it will be updated automatically inside of PSD, but you will have to redo all retouching from scratch.

                          So I'm curious what's the practical point for doing this.

                          The only usage I can imagine is to create collages or something like that...

                          • 10. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                            1ndivisible Level 1

                            Sure:

                             

                            It is possible, but you need to make sure you either have Lightroom set to save Metadata to your DNGs:


                            Lightroom > Catalogue Settings > Metadata > Automatically write changes to XMP

                             

                            Or save the metadata to the DNG manually.

                             

                            1. Select the DNG in Lightroom and choose Edit in Photoshop. This will open the image in a PSD set to its dimensions

                             

                            2. Delete the image (We just used it to get the PSD to the right dimensions).

                             

                            3. From your PSD choose File > Place Linked and select the DNG from your Lightroom catalogue. The thumbnail won't show the changes, but ACR will open and you will see the changes applied.

                             

                            4. Don't change any settings in ACR and click Open

                             

                            5. The DNG will be rendered as a Linked Object which you place in the document

                             

                            You can now make changes in Lightroom and see the PSD update to reflect them.

                             

                            I'm completely at a loss as to why this process isn't thought through by Adobe, but given recent events I'm not surprised. They just don't care about Lightroom enough to do it right.

                            • 11. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                              john beardsworth Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              1ndivisible wrote:

                               

                              I'm completely at a loss as to why this process isn't thought through by Adobe, but given recent events I'm not surprised. They just don't care about Lightroom enough to do it right.

                              Because it's rrelatively new and way over the heads of the vast majority of users, even those with good skill levels. Nothing to do with "recent events" or not caring.

                              • 12. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                                1ndivisible Level 1

                                I don't agree. The interoperability with Photoshop is just another half-finished feature (like HDR) that seem to have been added and instantly forgotten about. With Creative Cloud they don't even really have to bother. It's not like anyone can stick with an older version if a new version doesn't have much in the way of features. We are now all trapped. If we stop paying we have nothing. In this situation all Adobe cares about is getting more fish on the line. They already have most of the professional market, so what next? The consumer market. Dumb Lightroom down and make it easy to use for amateurs.  We (professional) users are no longer the target market for Lightroom. Why do you think they just added facial recognition?

                                • 13. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                                  john beardsworth Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Because it was consistently one of the most requested features, including from people who earn their living from photography. I'd certainly like an Edit As Linked Smart Object context menu. I'd use it, you too no doubt. But have you ever seen "professionals'" eyes glaze over when you explain smart objects to them? You can emote about other grievances and fears all you want, but linked smart objects are understood by a tiny fraction of the professional market.

                                  • 14. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                                    1ndivisible Level 1

                                    Your argument makes some sense, but when you view Lightroom as part of a 'suite' of apps designed to work together, the absence of this basic feature feels pretty lazy to me, especially when Lightroom has been rebranded Photoshop Lightroom.

                                     

                                    And I'm not emoting, just saying what I see and echoing the thoughts of many others judging by people I've spoken to and things I've read in the last year or so.

                                    • 15. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                                      john beardsworth Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      I'm not sure I'd describe this as a basic feature - more like bleeding edge! - but I'm totally with your desire to have this feature, and want other similar ideas. Lr should see into a TIF containing a traditional raw smart object and alter its raw settings. Sending files directly to CC Libraries is another related possibility.

                                       

                                      I do understand why folk are bleating about "dumbing down". The trouble is, they always ignore features like Dehaze as a global/local adjustment that aren't for "newbies", and don't try to see how the LrMobile and LrWeb workflows isn't just for the "selfie generation".

                                       

                                      What I suggest is that you record Place as a feature request at http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/products/photoshop_family_photoshop_lightro om

                                       

                                      John

                                      • 16. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                                        cppasm Level 3

                                        You just misunderstood me.

                                        I understand how to link DNG to PSD document.

                                        I am just asking for practical purpose for doing this.

                                        Because if you change DNG edits - yes, they will be reflected in PSD, but you will have to redo all work you did in Photoshop.

                                        Lets say you you change the exposure of DNG, then all the retouching you did will not fit the new image and will be noticeable.

                                        You just will have to redo everything you did in PS.

                                        So what's the point?

                                        • 17. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                                          1ndivisible Level 1

                                          Not every use of Photoshop involves directly retouching an asset. I often use a PSD for simple comping or adding text or graphics to an image. Or for using the image as a raw material for a design. In all these cases, the image might be both an independent asset and something used in a comp. I want to maintain this independence wherever possible.

                                           

                                          Certainly if you are doing heavy retouching then this isn't of use, but there are many cases when it is.

                                          • 18. Re: Place Lightroom DNG In Photoshop
                                            cppasm Level 3

                                            Ok, I completely agree.

                                            Thanks for your clarification.