10 Replies Latest reply on Dec 6, 2006 8:54 AM by vishnuke

    Fireworks and software

    Bill_Wood-j68LmB
      I have this thing about Software. I'm supportive of Macromedia and now Adobe. I've done dtp with Freehand - then progressed to the web and found Fireworks, Flash and Dreamweaver. I have allegiance to the Macromedia line, and as well to Corel. (I'm Canadian)

      I find unfortunately and sadly, that the products I've learned for years are starting to fade. Freehand is almost, if not gone. Fireworks is looking at a new version. Flash will be around for a while; and Dreamweaver will replace Go Live. (personal opinion).

      My dilema - everywhere I go it's - Photoshop, Photoshop this, Photoshop that, Photoshop / imageready, "get a job and you have to use Photoshop and Adobe" - if you're going to web - must have Imageready for rollover effects.

      I'm 52 years of age, and don't want to spend another $2ooo for a creative suite that does print and web. I have daughters in University with Macs, using Open Office. I know you've all heard my drum beating before - but does anyone feel like me ??

      Software was always a freedom of choice; as Apple vrs MS is. I'm reaching some of my most creative years, and many "salt and pepper hairs" are too. Corel supports PDF - MS does not. Word 2007 will not. Wordperfect does. We still have freedom of choice in word processors, and spreadsheets, but slowly I'm backing up into a corner with graphics ??

      Does anyone feel the same way ? And if you do tell me what you're doing. If I must learn (insert Adobe product here) then I will. But where are the graphic choices ??

      Bill
      Expresiv Designs
        • 1. Re: Fireworks and software
          Level 7
          Bill Wood wrote:
          > I have this thing about Software. I'm supportive of Macromedia and
          > now Adobe. I've done dtp with Freehand -

          FreeHand is not and never was a DTP app. It's an illustration/drawing
          app with a very unique multiple pages implementation that is geared and
          suited to drawing work (like creating multiple versions of a client
          logo, a letterhead template and/or envelope templates all in the same
          document). It still has a pasteboard/canvas size that is similar to
          Illustrator's (it,s a little bigger but not that much). FreeHand's multi
          page implementation is alike to scattering sheets of paper around on a
          desk or on the floor. Eventually you'll run out of room. What is unique
          is that you can create different pages of any sizes and orientation. By
          comparison, DTP apps like QuarkXPrress or InDesign (and even word
          processors like MS Word or OOo Writer) treat pages like an infinite
          stack. You need one more page then you just add it. You'll never run out
          of "space" because good DTP and word processing app will "stream" the
          pages into memory as you need them. It's a very different kind of
          workflow. Furthermore, FreeHand will slow to a crawl if you link/flow
          too many text boxes together (it doesn't take many) while DTP apps are
          optimized for this and will not slow down because of this.


          > then progressed to the web and found Fireworks, Flash and
          > Dreamweaver. I have allegiance to the Macromedia line, and as well
          > to Corel. (I'm Canadian)

          Ah Corel... ;-) I'm Canadian as well but I have no love for Corel apps.
          Their interfaces don't agree with me at all and I cannot get anything
          done with them.

          > I find unfortunately and sadly, that the products I've learned for
          > years are starting to fade. Freehand is almost, if not gone.

          The thing is, FreeHand will keep working on your Windows machine for a
          long time to come so even if it's not updated anymore it won't suddenly
          stop working. It has some annoying issues but it still works well for me.

          > My dilema - everywhere I go it's - Photoshop, Photoshop this,
          > Photoshop that, Photoshop / imageready, "get a job and you have to
          > use Photoshop and Adobe" - if you're going to web - must have
          > Imageready for rollover effects.

          Those people could learn a thing or too and get a clue by reading the
          following ;-)

          http://www.adobe.com/devnet/fireworks/articles/why_fireworks.html

          > I'm 52 years of age, and don't want to spend another $2ooo for a
          > creative suite that does print and web. I have daughters in
          > University with Macs, using Open Office. I know you've all heard my
          > drum beating before - but does anyone feel like me ??

          You don't have to buy the whole suite. No one can force you to stop
          using Fireworks and move to a less efficient 3 apps juggling workflow
          (see above article). For DTP work on the other hand, InDesign is the
          best application by far and would serve you much better than FreeHand
          for that kind of work. Illustrator is worth learning because, like it or
          not, it is the industry standard and it does do a lot of things better
          than FreeHand. Both apps could "learn" a lot from each other. I started
          with Illustrator but I really love FreeHand too. Bottom line is, if you
          need to do print work then you may just need to buy Illustrator and
          InDesign. But as great as Fireworks is, Photoshop is still the best at
          raw bitmap image editing and Fireworks does not do print at all (no
          CMYK, etc). Getting the suite at that point would make sense. It's
          pricey but it's quality software.

          > Software was always a freedom of choice; as Apple vrs MS is. I'm
          > reaching some of my most creative years, and many "salt and pepper
          > hairs" are too. Corel supports PDF - MS does not. Word 2007 will not.
          > Wordperfect does. We still have freedom of choice in word
          > processors, and spreadsheets, but slowly I'm backing up into a corner
          > with graphics ??

          I wouldn't qualify FreeHand's (unconfirmed) disappearance as being
          backed up in a corner. There are alternatives (Illustrator, Canvas,
          DrawPlus, etc). As for office apps, I use OpenOffice more than MS
          Office, especially Writer. OpenOffice is high quality software and well
          worth taking the time to learn it... and it does PDF natively too.

          > Does anyone feel the same way ? And if you do tell me what you're
          > doing. If I must learn (insert Adobe product here) then I will. But
          > where are the graphic choices ??

          I use both Macromedia Studio 8 and Adobe Creative Suite 2. I could not
          do all that I do without both. Fireworks was the first Macromedia app I
          bought... got it standalone long before the suites/studio packages). The
          first graphics app I dabbled with was Photoshop (3.05 if memory serves)
          but I much preferred vector apps and Illustrator is the first graphics
          app I learned in depth. It and Fireworks are the two I still use the
          most. Fireworks for all my Web graphics layout design work and
          Illustrator for my work at a screen printing company. FreeHand MX is
          used for all kinds of things from specific drawing tasks where its
          toolset is stronger than Illustrator's and also for short multipage docs
          like Web site documentation (wireframes, flow charts and site diagrams).
          InDesign is a new addition to my workflow but I use it to create
          specifications documents for the screen printing company I work at and
          to create business collateral (letterhead, envelopes invoices) for my
          one man Web design shop. I think choices are wider than ever but costs
          are certainly going up... You can save on your next MS Office license by
          switching to OpenOffice though... ;-)

          Cheers and hang in there!

          --
          Stéphane Bergeron
          reach:connect:communicate
          www.webfocusdesign.com
          blog:tutorials:articles:gallery
          www.pixelyzed.com
          • 2. Re: Fireworks and software
            Level 7
            > Fireworks is looking at a new version.

            As will all of the MM products. It happens about every 18 months.

            > Dreamweaver will replace Go
            > Live. (personal opinion).

            I think this is misinformed, if you mean that GL will then go away.


            > if you're going to web - must have Imageready for rollover effects.

            You don't want to work for any morons that say this. It's utter nonsense.

            > Does anyone feel the same way ? And if you do tell me what you're doing.
            > If
            > I must learn (insert Adobe product here) then I will. But where are the
            > graphic choices ??

            Frankly, I don't worry about it. What I have works exceptionally well for
            me, and I use it every day. Get pragmatic. Stop worrying. Be happy.

            --
            Murray --- ICQ 71997575
            Adobe Community Expert
            (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
            ==================
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            "Bill Wood" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
            news:ejgbhr$288$1@forums.macromedia.com...
            >I have this thing about Software. I'm supportive of Macromedia and now
            >Adobe.
            > I've done dtp with Freehand - then progressed to the web and found
            > Fireworks,
            > Flash and Dreamweaver. I have allegiance to the Macromedia line, and as
            > well
            > to Corel. (I'm Canadian)
            >
            > I find unfortunately and sadly, that the products I've learned for years
            > are
            > starting to fade. Freehand is almost, if not gone. Fireworks is looking
            > at a
            > new version. Flash will be around for a while; and Dreamweaver will
            > replace Go
            > Live. (personal opinion).
            >
            > My dilema - everywhere I go it's - Photoshop, Photoshop this, Photoshop
            > that,
            > Photoshop / imageready, "get a job and you have to use Photoshop and
            > Adobe" -
            > if you're going to web - must have Imageready for rollover effects.
            >
            > I'm 52 years of age, and don't want to spend another $2ooo for a creative
            > suite that does print and web. I have daughters in University with Macs,
            > using
            > Open Office. I know you've all heard my drum beating before - but does
            > anyone
            > feel like me ??
            >
            > Software was always a freedom of choice; as Apple vrs MS is. I'm
            > reaching
            > some of my most creative years, and many "salt and pepper hairs" are too.
            > Corel supports PDF - MS does not. Word 2007 will not. Wordperfect does.
            > We
            > still have freedom of choice in word processors, and spreadsheets, but
            > slowly
            > I'm backing up into a corner with graphics ??
            >
            > Does anyone feel the same way ? And if you do tell me what you're doing.
            > If
            > I must learn (insert Adobe product here) then I will. But where are the
            > graphic choices ??
            >
            > Bill
            > Expresiv Designs
            >


            • 3. Re: Fireworks and software
              Level 7
              Well, I'm 57, all my kids are out of college and I'll be paying off those
              school loans for the next 20 years. Now my daughter's getting married next
              month and I feel like there is a 5 inch drain pipe attached to my wallet
              through which money is freely flowing...

              However, at 52 or 57, if web and graphics is your business, then you need to
              keep up with the upgrades and the latest software. It's part of your tool
              set and if you don't keep up, learn new things, new techniques and the
              latest technology, some 25 year old will snatch your job out from under you.

              If you are going to be doing a lot of print graphics and imaging, you'll
              need to use Illustrator, Photoshop and In Design. If you are concentrating
              mostly on web design only then DW, and Fireworks are what you need.

              I can't afford it either, but I have had to find a way to pay for and use
              both the Macromedia and Adobe design suites, pro versions. If it's your
              business, they're tax deductible. I also use a very old version of Corel
              for a few little functions that it does better (or easier) than Adobe or
              Macromedia.

              But think like a 25 year old and move up or move over.


              "Bill Wood" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
              news:ejgbhr$288$1@forums.macromedia.com...
              >I have this thing about Software. I'm supportive of Macromedia and now
              >Adobe.
              > I've done dtp with Freehand - then progressed to the web and found
              > Fireworks,
              > Flash and Dreamweaver. I have allegiance to the Macromedia line, and as
              > well
              > to Corel. (I'm Canadian)
              >
              > I find unfortunately and sadly, that the products I've learned for years
              > are
              > starting to fade. Freehand is almost, if not gone. Fireworks is looking
              > at a
              > new version. Flash will be around for a while; and Dreamweaver will
              > replace Go
              > Live. (personal opinion).
              >
              > My dilema - everywhere I go it's - Photoshop, Photoshop this, Photoshop
              > that,
              > Photoshop / imageready, "get a job and you have to use Photoshop and
              > Adobe" -
              > if you're going to web - must have Imageready for rollover effects.
              >
              > I'm 52 years of age, and don't want to spend another $2ooo for a creative
              > suite that does print and web. I have daughters in University with Macs,
              > using
              > Open Office. I know you've all heard my drum beating before - but does
              > anyone
              > feel like me ??
              >
              > Software was always a freedom of choice; as Apple vrs MS is. I'm
              > reaching
              > some of my most creative years, and many "salt and pepper hairs" are too.
              > Corel supports PDF - MS does not. Word 2007 will not. Wordperfect does.
              > We
              > still have freedom of choice in word processors, and spreadsheets, but
              > slowly
              > I'm backing up into a corner with graphics ??
              >
              > Does anyone feel the same way ? And if you do tell me what you're doing.
              > If
              > I must learn (insert Adobe product here) then I will. But where are the
              > graphic choices ??
              >
              > Bill
              > Expresiv Designs
              >


              • 4. Re: Fireworks and software
                ageofem
                for freehand, theres probably something on the works early next year, due to its popular demand, i dont know if this is true ( read it here or from some fw forum ) but i just hope they bring it back , maybe some1 in the adobe team can confirm it/

                for me personally, i use fw in doing most of my stuff, even if my client wants a psd or a illustrator file, i just like the whole workflow, its really different when u use fireworks , i try do most stuff in fireworks , export it as a psd file, and make some slight changes..
                • 5. Re: Fireworks and software
                  dietrich_design(s)
                  Bill (and Adobe),

                  I hear what you're saying. I've been learning every last @#$% program that has come out since Mac Draw and am equally fed up with the upgrade scenarios. Adobe has given us new features and has answered many a plea for a Quark replacement (I recently switched to InDesign and am pleased.) But they can stop repackaging CS and forcing the industry to upgrade - at least for a few years now, ok.

                  My latest wish is that Adobe will take Fireworks to a new level. This is the cross-over program that could sweep the industry if given Illustrator precision and Photoshop speed - things currently lacking in Macromedia's product. The new CS upgrade includes Dreamweaver 8 but not Fireworks 8. What gives? Strip out the bad image editing and give us Photoshop capabilities (within reason I know) and then allow for hearty vector control and maybe even a Flash timeline interface and you would have a great upgrade. Maybe even a convert type to outlines feature so I could pass my layered art to PC programmers that don't have font libraries.

                  Adobe - please don't forsake the strong Macromedia Fireworks base that is out here. Call it Image Ready, I don't care, but give us vector- and pixel-based controls that scream and we'll keep buying your upgrades... !

                  Oh, and sorry Bill, Freehand and Corel just don't cut the mustard.

                  Chris Dietrich

                  dietrich design(s)
                  Media, PA USA
                  http://www.dietrichdesigns.com
                  • 6. Re: Fireworks and software
                    Level 7
                    Are you any relation to Dietrich Surveys, in the same general area?

                    --
                    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                    Adobe Community Expert
                    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                    ==================
                    http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
                    http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
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                    ==================


                    "dietrich design(s)" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                    news:ekfjbc$5v7$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                    > Bill (and Adobe),
                    >
                    > I hear what you're saying. I've been learning every last @#$% program that
                    > has
                    > come out since Mac Draw and am equally fed up with the upgrade scenarios.
                    > Adobe
                    > has given us new features and has answered many a plea for a Quark
                    > replacement
                    > (I recently switched to InDesign and am pleased.) But they can stop
                    > repackaging
                    > CS and forcing the industry to upgrade - at least for a few years now, ok.
                    >
                    > My latest wish is that Adobe will take Fireworks to a new level. This is
                    > the
                    > cross-over program that could sweep the industry if given Illustrator
                    > precision
                    > and Photoshop speed - things currently lacking in Macromedia's product.
                    > The new
                    > CS upgrade includes Dreamweaver 8 but not Fireworks 8. What gives? Strip
                    > out
                    > the bad image editing and give us Photoshop capabilities (within reason I
                    > know)
                    > and then allow for hearty vector control and maybe even a Flash timeline
                    > interface and you would have a great upgrade. Maybe even a convert type to
                    > outlines feature so I could pass my layered art to PC programmers that
                    > don't
                    > have font libraries.
                    >
                    > Adobe - please don't forsake the strong Macromedia Fireworks base that is
                    > out
                    > here. Call it Image Ready, I don't care, but give us vector- and
                    > pixel-based
                    > controls that scream and we'll keep buying your upgrades... !
                    >
                    > Oh, and sorry Bill, Freehand and Corel just don't cut the mustard.
                    >
                    > Chris Dietrich
                    >
                    > dietrich design(s)
                    > Media, PA USA
                    > http://www.dietrichdesigns.com
                    >


                    • 7. Re: Fireworks and software
                      dietrich_design(s) Level 1
                      Bill,

                      No, I am not related to any survey company, but do occasionally create surveys myself. Would love to learn more about the company you are talking about. I'll look them up. Which area of the country? Philly/NJ?

                      Any word on a Fireworks upgrade? Any glimmer of hope is appreciated.

                      Chris
                      • 8. Re: Fireworks and software
                        Level 7
                        Bill's not here, but I am! 8)

                        http://www.dietrichsurveys.com (site *definitely* not built by me!)

                        --
                        Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                        Adobe Community Expert
                        (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                        ==================
                        http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
                        http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                        http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                        http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
                        ==================


                        "dietrich design(s)" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                        news:el1cdm$93c$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                        > Bill,
                        >
                        > No, I am not related to any survey company, but do occasionally create
                        > surveys
                        > myself. Would love to learn more about the company you are talking about.
                        > I'll
                        > look them up. Which area of the country? Philly/NJ?
                        >
                        > Any word on a Fireworks upgrade? Any glimmer of hope is appreciated.
                        >
                        > Chris
                        >


                        • 9. Re: Fireworks and software
                          Level 7
                          dietrich design(s) wrote:
                          > Bill,
                          >
                          > No, I am not related to any survey company, but do occasionally create surveys
                          > myself. Would love to learn more about the company you are talking about. I'll
                          > look them up. Which area of the country? Philly/NJ?
                          >
                          > Any word on a Fireworks upgrade? Any glimmer of hope is appreciated.

                          The announcement that a new Fireworks version was under way was made
                          months ago. Recently a call for beta testers was sent. See the last item
                          on the following page:

                          http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/fireworks/

                          --
                          Stéphane Bergeron
                          reach : connect : communicate
                          http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                          blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                          http://www.pixelyzed.com
                          • 10. Re: Fireworks and software
                            vishnuke Level 1
                            A new version of Fireworks seriously makes me happy.

                            In my opinion, Adobe shouldn't drastically change Fireworks for whatever reason. Yeah, it doesn't have the speed or precision of PS/Illustrator, but it's amazing at what it does do. Well, they SHOULD add the CMYK though, for print.

                            I worked on a series of icons a few months back and found that with 16x16 vector work, Fireworks reigned supreme on those. If they start changing around Fireworks to their own desire, I think they could seriously gimp a damn mean program.