21 Replies Latest reply on Nov 15, 2015 1:05 PM by trshaner

    does lightroom cc fly for you?

    getho Level 1

      is anyone out there happy with lightrooms speed? I'm curious if there is *any* os/hardware/raw type combination that lets people work quickly and fluidly. I remember a time when my workflow meant never waiting on the computer.

       

      I'm especially wondering about pros who use it all the time - is anyone's Lightroom keeping up with them? The only way I can get Lightroom anywhere near my speed is to resize the window to postcard size.


      if so what hardware and os?

        • 1. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
          Keith_Reeder Level 4

          Yep, flies here.

           

          Win 8 64 bit, 16 gb RAM, GPU Support enabled (AMD R7 200 card, 2gb), fairly standard (1920 x 1080) monitor, and it's completely responsive - no lags anywhere (note, I only use Library and Develop) - and entirely reliable.

          • 2. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
            getho Level 1

            thanks Keith. What CPU and motherboard? And what raw files?

            • 3. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
              Keith_Reeder Level 4

              Asus M5A97 LE board, AMD FX 4300 Quad Core proccy, 3.8 GHz.

               

              7D Mk II files, for the most part.

               

              Oh - and it's Win 8.1, to be precise.

              • 4. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                whsprague Level 4

                Not a pro, but I have no issues with speed.  I use a $2000 ASUS "Gamer" laptop that I bought "off the shelf" at B&H 3 years ago.  It has an  i7,  lots of memory and the software is on the SSD with the images on the HDD.   Last week I transitions to Win 10 without issue.  Two weeks ago I transitioned to the latest LR (that has the different import dialog) without issue.

                • 5. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  I'm using Windows 7 with a five year old MSI MS-7613 MB, Intel 2.8GHz i7-860 quad-core, 12GB memory, 256GB SSD (3Gb/s) primary drive and 2.0TB HDD for image files. Processing Canon 5D MKII and 600D raw files using a 2560x1440 monitor and Quadro 600 GPU disabled in LR Preferences with no issues.

                   

                  LR 6.2/6.2.1 has many issues so it's suggested you use 6.1.1.

                  • 6. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                    tunney moriarty Level 2

                    It flies for me too. I am on an 27 inch iMac which Apple custom made for me in 2012. I am on El Capitan with 16 gig of Ram. I have a subscription for LightRoom and Photoshop. I have no problem whatsoever.

                     

                    Tunney

                    • 7. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                      JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      HP i5 processor, 3.1 GHz

                      8 GB RAM

                      Intel integrated graphics (no special graphics card)

                      2 internal hard drives

                      2  external hard drives

                      No SSD drives

                       

                      I have no issues with Lightroom performance.

                      • 8. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                        Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        My main machine is a retina Mac Book Pro with El Capitan and 16 Gig of RAM. Catalog and last few months' images on internal SSD. Other images on very fast RAID system. In 2015.2.1 it is unusable and glacially slow. Absolutely horrid. In 2015.1.1 it is very nice and speedy. I do have to keep GPU acceleration turned off as otherwise it becomes very slow in Develop after a few brush strokes.

                        • 9. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                          D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          I suspect the original question should be qualified - and quantified - a bit. One person's "working fine" is another person's "glacially slow", and snappy adjustment sliders could well be paired with slow and laggy photo switching. So what your priorities are affect the answer. And how fast is "fast"?

                           

                          I'm in that category with fast adjustments, but slow moving from one shot to the next. There's no way to avoid a two-second lag before the next shot snaps into focus. Reading and rendering previews/ACR cache is clearly a problem.

                           

                          So depending on what I do, Lightroom is lightning fast or glacially slow. One image at a time, no problems. Going through a 300-frame shoot to identify the picks, no good at all.

                           

                          I've just signed up for a twelve-month subscription to Capture One (yeah, they do that too, at 12 euro a month). I don't really want to switch - I just need to find out what the basic situation is with this. And I need more than 30 days to compare the behavior of these two applications in some depth.

                           

                          (Hardware: i7-3820 / 32GB / SSD system / SSD Lightroom catalog/previews/ACR cache. Nikon D800 7360x4912. Eizo CG246 1920x1200 single screen).

                          • 10. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                            Keith_Reeder Level 4

                            So what's your OS, D? That's likely to be a significant detail, too.

                            D Fosse wrote:

                             

                            I suspect the original question should be qualified - and quantified - a bit. One person's "working fine" is another person's "glacially slow", and snappy adjustment sliders could well be paired with slow and laggy photo switching. So what your priorities are affect the answer. And how fast is "fast"?

                             

                            Yep. It was precisely to cover that point off that I said:

                             

                            and it's completely responsive - no lags anywhere

                             

                            Any action I take in Lr is effectively instantaneous - including moving from image to image: too quick to time. I'm not a pro, but as a wildlife/sport photographer I routinely come home with high three figure, and sometimes four figure counts of images: admittedly I do my culling outside of Lightroom, but what's left often numbers in the hundreds, and it's no problem. - Lr isn't "tolerably quick", it's fast.

                             

                            I use Capture One too: that's very snappy on my machine, and Lr's just as snappy.But be aware that Capture One comes with its own issues: many of us have major issues with its colour rendition/profiles (endless, ongoing discussion about it on the Capture One forums), and you might find that any inherent speed advantage you get from Cap One is lost because ot the time it takes - both in and out of Cap One - to fix the day-glo mess that the software inflicts on images. Recent Canon profles are particularly bad. I hope you like orange.


                            There's also some evidence that El Capitan causes tethering problems for Capture One too: Phase One and Leaf-Mamiya Official User to User Forum • View topic - Problem Tethering with El Capitan and Nikon D810 (specifically, the post from "Clark" which appears to rule out hardware as the issue in his case).

                             

                            Anyway, just for a laugh, if you want to see what "slow" really looks like - try DxO Optics Pro. It's desperately slow. DxO's refusal to address this in favour of adding pointless bells and whistles, and dumbing down the software to appeal to a mythical hoard of newbies who are put off purchasing because of the software's supposed complexities (sound familiar?) is one of the reasons I quit as a beta tester.

                             

                            And if you want as fast as it gets, I recommend Photo Ninja - it's brilliantly fast. But even here, Lr actually exports full-sized 16 bit tiffs more quickly, and of course all you get is a converter.

                            • 11. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                              D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Keith_Reeder wrote:

                               

                              So what's your OS, D? That's likely to be a significant detail, too.

                              Yes, could be. I'm still on Win7 - 8 was never an option, but 10 looks good and I'll go for that on next major overhaul of the system.

                               

                              The funny thing, since you mention C1 day-glo colors, is that C1 has a fan club almost as fanatic as the most die-hard Apple fanboys. They keep talking about the C1 "magic" and "secret sauce", without ever being any more specific. Of course, I don't buy that for a second.

                               

                              Another weird thing is that C1 boasts of their camera-specific processing - but then makes a point of saying that this of course doesn't apply to DNGs, only native formats. Here's from their site (supported formats): "Adobe: CinemaDNG, Linear DNG, DNG 1.4 (raw DNG support only). The DNG support is not optimized for specific cameras".

                               

                              What's that? It's not as if they can't tell which camera the file comes from, is it? And are they trying to tell us that the sensor data are somewhat different if it's a DNG? This is just ridiculous and head-in-the-sand policies like these are what stops wider DNG adaptation.

                               

                              Oh, and one more thing: the C1 interface is non-intuitive and visually hard to decipher. It's a typical "design" product with little focus on useability. Even though it's fully customizable I still prefer Lr - which says a lot about how good the Lr UI design really is. The only thing I miss in both is the option for a light UI same as "classic" Photoshop - that is much more realistic for soft-proofing prints.

                              • 12. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                                Keith_Reeder Level 4

                                I used to be as big a fan of "The Capture One Look" (which was a warm, slightly biased-to orange look) as any - but something has unquestionably changed in their profiling methodology, and for the worse, with an excessive bias towards an unpleasant orangy-brown in more recent profiles, from around the introduction of the 7D onwards.

                                 

                                A lot of of us have given up on Capture One's default profiles in favour of rolling our own; or renaming old profiles to be recognised as the default for our newer cameras (I used to use the Canon 1D Mk III profile like that for my 7D Mk II until I set up my own default).

                                 

                                We've had some pretty robust discussions on the Cap One forum about its wrong-headed DNG support too - Phase One has quite intentionally applied a non-standard (and, I think, broken) approach to converting DNGs. As you suggest, there's no logical reason why Cap One couldn't apply the same profile to an "Adobe converted" DNG from a given camera as it would to the original Raw, but no, there's a "Generic DNG" profile which gets called in all cases, and it's not much good...

                                 

                                As to the interface - I happen to like it. I've adapted it to suit me (something I appreciate as an available option - selected tools on the right, Lr-style (hint - set up the "Quick" panel with the tools you use the most), thumbnails on the left), and I'd suggest it's just a case of getting familiar.

                                 

                                Oh - and piddly little things like the ability to add a text signature, are much better-implemented in Lr too: in Cap One, the sig changes size depending on both crop and image orientation, which is utterly illogical.

                                 

                                (Adobe - and Getho - sorry for wandering off topic here!)

                                • 13. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                                  D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Well, off topic as such, but I think it's at least a relevant tangent: If people are unhappy with Lightroom (and the OP seems to be), it's nice to have an idea of what the competition can offer, and Capture One is after all the major competition to Lightroom.

                                   

                                  As for the lack of proper DNG support, Phase One is making a big mistake here. If they stopped to think for a second, instead of this knee-jerk "invented by the competition"-angst, they might get a load of new business. What they forget is that people invest in platforms, and switching isn't something you do unless it's real easy. They're just putting up barbed-wire fences.

                                  • 14. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                                    Keith_Reeder Level 4

                                    D Fosse wrote:

                                     

                                    If they stopped to think for a second, instead of this knee-jerk "invented by the competition"-angst, they might get a load of new business.

                                    Yep, FWIW, I think that's exactly what's going on in Phase One's mind.

                                     

                                    Another broadly similar example: Capture One doesn't support Leica cameras for tethering. Leica provides an SDK (which is why Lr can support its cameras for tethering) so it would be easy enough for Phase One to support Leica, and it really does look like this being another decision by Phase One to make life harder than it needs to be for owners of "rival" cameras...

                                    • 15. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                                      D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      Keith_Reeder wrote:

                                       

                                      Another broadly similar example: Capture One doesn't support Leica cameras for tethering. Leica provides an SDK (which is why Lr can support its cameras for tethering) so it would be easy enough for Phase One to support Leica, and it really does look like this being another decision by Phase One to make life harder than it needs to be for owners of "rival" cameras...

                                      Yes, that's beginning to look like a pattern. Won't do them any good in the long run and frankly it's amazing they don't see that.

                                      • 16. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Keith_Reeder wrote:

                                         

                                        So what's your OS, D? That's likely to be a significant detail, too.

                                        D Fosse wrote:

                                         

                                        I suspect the original question should be qualified - and quantified - a bit. One person's "working fine" is another person's "glacially slow", and snappy adjustment sliders could well be paired with slow and laggy photo switching. So what your priorities are affect the answer. And how fast is "fast"?

                                         

                                        Any action I take in Lr is effectively instantaneous - including moving from image to image: too quick to time. I'm not a pro, but as a wildlife/sport photographer I routinely come home with high three figure, and sometimes four figure counts of images: admittedly I do my culling outside of Lightroom, but what's left often numbers in the hundreds, and it's no problem. - Lr isn't "tolerably quick", it's fast.

                                        I suspect D Fosse is talking about reviewing images in the Develop module and Keith_Reeder in the Library module. I build Standard Previews on Import and review & select images for processing in the Library module, which is as Keith_Reeder says is instantaneous. As D Fosse states I also see about a "two-second lag" in the Develop module before the 'Loading' popup goes away. But I can start adjusting the Develop module controls in ~1.0 sec., which doesn't impede my workflow. IMHO the Develop module is the wrong place to do image review. It uses a simpler interpolation (Bilinear?) to create the Fit and other <1:1 Zoom views. This produces an image that appears sharper than "reality." The Library module uses preview files containing an image pyramid (1:16, 1:8,1:4.....1:1), which is rendered using high-quality Bicubic interpolation. Bicubic is the same interpolation used by all of LR's output modules, including the Export, Slideshow, Print, and Web modules. WYSIWYG - What you see is what you get in the Library module.

                                         

                                        After an image set has been worked on in the Develop module I switch to the Library module, select all of the images and build 1:1 Previews. The images can then be reviewed and scrolled through instantaneously in the Library module at ANY Zoom view size. Full Screen mode in the Library module slows down the review process to about 1.0 sec. per image, so I rarely use it. What works better is Full Screen and Hide Panels mode (CTRL +SHIFT+F), which is almost as fast as normal screen mode on my system. Give it a try.

                                         

                                        I'm on Windows 7 and using a 2560 x 1440 monitor, which is ~1.8x the pixels of a 1920 x 1080 monitor. The higher the monitor's resolution the longer it will take to build the Library screen preview and likewise the Develop preview. The current GPU implementation only works in the Develop module, but on my system (Nvidia Quadro 600) actually slows down some operations. It always a good idea to try it both ways.

                                        • 17. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                                          Keith_Reeder Level 4

                                          Nope, I do nothing in the Library, Todd - everything "meaningful" happens in Develop for me once I've imported.

                                          • 18. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                                            D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            And I see the same delay in Library, exactly the same. That's what confuses me, because I thought the whole idea was that Library was the place for fast reviewing and culling.

                                             

                                            I must admit, though, that I rarely have the patience to build full 1:1 previews before I start working. That's a full half hour right there on a large shoot, and I don't have time for that.

                                            • 19. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              D Fosse wrote:

                                               

                                              And I see the same delay in Library, exactly the same. That's what confuses me, because I thought the whole idea was that Library was the place for fast reviewing and culling.

                                              With your system specs this shouldn't be happening! I'm also on Windows 7 using a much lower performance system with good performance as described. If you're using LR 6.2/6.2.1 or CC 2015.2/2015.2.1 then that's the problem. I suggest roll-back to 6.1.1 or CC 2015.1.1:

                                               

                                              Roll back to a prior update version

                                               

                                              D Fosse wrote:

                                              I must admit, though, that I rarely have the patience to build full 1:1 previews before I start working. That's a full half hour right there on a large shoot, and I don't have time for that.

                                              No need to build 1:1 previews on Import. You only need to build Standard previews when Importing new image files.

                                              Make sure your Catalog Settings show the 'Auto' Standard Preview SIze, which in your case is 1920px. Medium Preview Quality is fine and helps reduce disk space. If still slow in the Library module try selecting a group of images and go to menu Library> Previews> 'Build Standard-Sized Previews.' After the preview building completes try reviewing those image files again in the Library module. You need to rebuild the 'Standard-Sized Previews' after every editing session of a group of images. Select them all and use the same menu item above. LR will build new previews for those files that require them (i.e. only those files with new edits). You only need to build 1:1 Previews if you want the ability to "quickly" review a large number of edited (or unedited) image files in the Library module at 1:1 Zoom view. Standard-Sized Previews shouldn't take long to build on your system and you can continue doing work such as adding keywords, rating, picks. Depending on your system performance you can even go back into the Develop module and start editing a different batch of image files while the preview building continues in the background. Then go back and review the first batch of images while you build 'Standard-Sized Previews' for the 2nd batch you just edited in the Develop module. My lesser performance system allows doing this with only a slight loss of performance in the Develop module.

                                              • 20. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                                                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                OK, thanks, Todd, I'll try what you suggest. I probably haven't hit on the optimal procedure for this - usually deadlines are so incredibly tight that all I can focus on is getting the darned thing done. No time to experiment, which is also why I need good time to evaluate and compare Capture One.

                                                 

                                                I could do this more leisurely at home, but there I have a more modest i5 system and I expect (and am comfortable with) slower performance there.

                                                • 21. Re: does lightroom cc fly for you?
                                                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  D Fosse wrote:

                                                  I could do this more leisurely at home, but there I have a more modest i5 system and I expect (and am comfortable with) slower performance there.

                                                  I think you'll find more than acceptable performance on an i5 system with 'Standard-Sized Previews' built and kept up to date after edits. The Library module doesn't place nearly as much demand on the processor as the Develop module. If using a 1920 x1080 or lower resolution monitor with the i5 system you shouldn't have any issues in the Library module at Fit view. If you want to browse images at 1:1 Zoom view in the Library module you'll need to build 1:1 Previews or it will be slower than the Develop module.