28 Replies Latest reply on Nov 29, 2015 6:11 PM by MaBt

    Colour issues

    MaBt

      I'm using InDesign CC 2015.06, saved my files in the cloud and I'm facing a problem with colours. Every time I export the file, the colours in the second page come differently then the first one. I'm using the same PMS colour (PMS 2717 U). On the second page I'm using the PMS colour in different shades including a gradient. Has anyone faced this type of problem before? How do I resolve it?

        • 1. Re: Colour issues
          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Exporting to what format? PDF, PDF interactive, JPEG, PNG, etc.? Is the PMS color set as process or spot in Ink Manager? Is there any transparent object on the second page?

          • 2. Re: Colour issues
            MaBt Level 1

            I'm exporting PDF (high quality print), the PMS colour is set as spot and I do have an object with transparency on the second page, the logo (it is a .ai file). However, I've got the same object on the first page as well.

            • 3. Re: Colour issues
              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Can you share the problem PDF?

              • 4. Re: Colour issues
                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                the PMS colour is set as spot

                Is the logo on both pages showing on the spot plate in AcrobatPro's Output Preview?

                • 5. Re: Colour issues
                  MaBt Level 1

                  yes.

                  Is the logo on both pages showing on the spot plate in AcrobatPro's Output Preview?

                  I haven't checked that. Actually, I've never used it. How can I check it?

                   

                  Screen Shot 2015-11-27 at 15.20.53.png

                  • 6. Re: Colour issues
                    MaBt Level 1

                    and this is the other one

                     

                    Screen Shot 2015-11-27 at 15.26.03.png

                    • 7. Re: Colour issues
                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Open the PDF in AcrobatPro and choose Tools>Print Production>Output Preview. It looks like the color on your 2nd page is a process CMYK conversion of the spot color.

                       

                      Screen Shot 2015-11-27 at 3.32.10 PM.png

                       

                       

                      Turning off the process plates shows me that the fill on the left is a spot, while the one on the right is process.

                       

                      Screen Shot 2015-11-27 at 3.32.25 PM.png

                      • 8. Re: Colour issues
                        Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional

                        To test, mark any object that contains opacity <100% or blend mode other than normal as non printing or simply delete/cut the object and then export to PDF (don't forget to undo the cut or delete). If this fixes the issue then you know that the problem is spot colour and transparency related. It could be that the PDF export settings are flattenig spots to process. Is this job required to separate as only 2 colours?

                        • 9. Re: Colour issues
                          MaBt Level 1

                          Thanks Rob. I will test it. Im sorry I took a while to respond.

                          • 10. Re: Colour issues
                            MaBt Level 1

                            yes, this job requires only 2 colours.

                            I'll do what you have suggested to see if I can save this issue.
                            Thanks heaps.
                            I'm sorry that I took a while to respond.

                            • 11. Re: Colour issues
                              MaBt Level 1

                              I've finally figured out the problem! it was with the logo. It was carrying wrong colours and transparency and affecting the rest of the page somehow.

                               

                              Thanks heaps Rob and Stephen for your help!

                              • 12. Re: Colour issues
                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                It was carrying wrong colours and transparency

                                 

                                Just to be clear, you can use transparency with spot colors and maintain the correct separation on export. I asked about transparency in my first post before I new if you were using spots—transparency can cause color shifts when you use Lab or RGB process colors that are out of the CMYK gamut.

                                 

                                So here I have 2717 blending at 64% over Black an InDesign's Separations Preview shows it separating correctly—so you should be able to use ID's Sep Preview to check that no CMY colors are being used. If I flatten this page on export via PDF/X-1a with a CMYK Transparency Blend Space the plates in Acrobat are the same. If I export to PDF/X-4 the Blend Space can be RGB or CMYK.

                                 

                                Screen Shot 2015-11-29 at 12.16.56 PM.png

                                 

                                Screen Shot 2015-11-29 at 12.17.05 PM.png

                                Screen Shot 2015-11-29 at 12.17.11 PM.png

                                • 13. Re: Colour issues
                                  MaBt Level 1

                                  I see! Actually, I thought I had solved the problem, but it was not the logo. It was exactly what you mentioned: the transparency blend. I'm using CMYK blend and exporting PDF/x-1a:2003. It is working now!!
                                  Thanks heaps!!!!

                                   

                                  Screen Shot 2015-11-29 at 13.14.15.png
                                  Screen Shot 2015-11-29 at 13.15.12.png

                                  • 14. Re: Colour issues
                                    MaBt Level 1

                                    I've just realised that I created another problem

                                     

                                    The objects that have transparency are disappearing from the outside the "black box"
                                    Please see the 2 images. 1st is the .indd file and 2nd is the exported pdf

                                     

                                     

                                    Screen Shot 2015-11-29 at 14.54.36.pngScreen Shot 2015-11-29 at 14.54.54.png

                                    • 15. Re: Colour issues
                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      Can you share the files via Dropbox? It's hard to tell from your capture what's going on.

                                      • 16. Re: Colour issues
                                        MaBt Level 1

                                        Sure! Thank you very much for that!!!

                                        Dropbox - Public

                                        • 17. Re: Colour issues
                                          Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional

                                          MaBt, is there any chance of saving those INDD files as IDML (I am still on CS6). Or perhaps saving a PDF…

                                           

                                          What tint % is the background colour of the spot colour?

                                           

                                          What tint % are the “bits” that hang outside of the frame? Illustrator has these as 20% and 45% for the face logo, however there was no link for the large “frame” graphic.

                                           

                                          What blending mode and or opacity are you using for the frame graphic?

                                          • 18. Re: Colour issues
                                            MaBt Level 1

                                            yes. thank you very much for your help! here it is: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76779701/KJD-MD_Businesscard_BW_29Nov15.idml


                                            What tint % is the background colour of the spot colour?

                                            the element is 45% of the spot colour and I'm using multiply as blending mode.

                                            • 20. Re: Colour issues
                                              Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional

                                              Ah, it is “simple" maths then!

                                               

                                              45% of Pantone 2717 multiplied over 100% of 2717 = 100% 2717.

                                               

                                              Take a look at View/Overprint Preview to confirm (that “regular” view lies, always work in output preview)…

                                               

                                              You would need to add a tint of black into those shapes to make them darker, as you can’t get darker than 100% of the spot colour. There are a few ways to do this…

                                               

                                              Keep in mind that blend modes were originally found in Photoshop and most of them work best with RGB colours, once one uses CMYK or Spots blend modes/opacity may not always work “as expected”.

                                              • 21. Re: Colour issues
                                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                With Overprint Off you are viewing the page as it would print if it were converted to CMYK (Ink Manager set to Spots to Process). As Stephen suggests you have to turn Overprint or Sep Preview on to see the 2-color version preview. You could set the background color to something less than 100% to get the multiply effect.

                                                • 22. Re: Colour issues
                                                  MaBt Level 1

                                                  Thank you very much! Stephen & Rob!

                                                  My apologies for my ignorance, but how do I add a tint of black into those shapes? Do I duplicate them and add the black? ...

                                                  The main problem is that I can only use this 2 colours and the client is very particular with the background colour! It has to be the 2717 U 100%!

                                                  • 23. Re: Colour issues
                                                    MaBt Level 1

                                                    My apologies for my ignorance, but how do I add a tint of black into those shapes? Do I duplicate them and add the black? ...

                                                    • 24. Re: Colour issues
                                                      Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional

                                                      No need to apologise…

                                                       

                                                      There are two ways:

                                                       

                                                      One is to dupe and fill the object with say 5%K and ensure that the duped object is set to OVERPRINT or perhaps to darken or multiply blend modes (I am old school and personally prefer to avoid blend modes if not needed). If the shape has a gradation from light to dark then you would need to make the black gradated as well.

                                                       

                                                      Another way is to setup a mixed ink group (screenshot below). The values in the screen shot are just random for illustration purposes, you may need to double check the final values in the separations preview of either InDesign or Acrobat Pro, as you are tinting a tint.

                                                       

                                                      mixed-ink.png

                                                       

                                                      As Rob points out, the alternative is to make the background a tint, which is not without it’s own set of issues!

                                                      • 25. Re: Colour issues
                                                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        One thing you have to watch out for with mixed inks and spot tints is there no real color management for spot tints and mixes, so you can't depend on the screen soft proof. If the client is fussy about color you have to worry about how to proof.

                                                        • 26. Re: Colour issues
                                                          MaBt Level 1

                                                          Thank you guys!
                                                          For all the help and tips! I've learnt a lot!

                                                           

                                                          I will definitely pay great attention to the proof.

                                                          • 27. Re: Colour issues
                                                            Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional

                                                            Agreed Rob, the hardcopy proofing situation is changing with the release of the new ISO Standard 17972 which uses spectral reflectance modelling, however that is a different discussion! :]

                                                             

                                                            It is a case of judging things by the numbers, what final % tint of black is overprinting the spot colour? We will be presuming that the printer is laying down the spot colour first with black second and that they are using output screen angles offset at 30° for both the black and the spot plate (not both at say 45°). Personally I would make a guess at around 3-5% black over the 100% spot colour for a subtle darker effect.

                                                             

                                                            Good luck!

                                                            • 28. Re: Colour issues
                                                              MaBt Level 1

                                                              Once again: thank you heaps!