33 Replies Latest reply on Sep 10, 2016 3:17 PM by TRAK

    The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan

    JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

      I have been trying to understand why so many users are afraid or skeptical of the Creative Cloud Photography Plan. My plan for Photoshop and Lightroom, the latest versions, is $9.99/month. Photoshop and Lightroom are both installed locally on my computer hard drive. The programs run locally, and all work is saved locally to hard drives that are connected to my computer. My monthly fee is automatically paid via credit card. The only time the creative cloud becomes involved is a monthly check to make sure I have paid, and to deliver updates in a timely manner. It runs very smoothly.

       

       

      There are those who argue that they want to "own" their software. It's apparent that they have never read the license agreement when they installed Lightroom. Adobe owns the software. All the user owns is a license to use it, indefinitely, with no additional charge. So that means they are locked into the features of that version with no hope of getting any new features without paying for an upgrade. And in the past, users have waited impatiently when rumors of a new upgrade will soon be available. As far as ownership of software goes, if the user purchases the software in a box with a disk, the user owns the box and the disk. And the disk will become outdated as soon as there is an update.

       

       

      Consider the economics of the photography plan. Yes, it costs $120/year. Let's assume for the sake of argument that the next version of standalone Lightroom will be released two years from when Lightroom 6 was released. And let's assume that the user who purchases the standalone version is going to want to keep current. The upgrade price has historically been $79 US. That means over the two years the standalone user will pay $158 to keep Lightroom up to date. So the math looks something like this:

       

       

      Lightroom/Photoshop creative cloud two-year cost                $240

      Lightroom standalone two-year cost                                       $158

      Difference                                                                               $ 82 ($41/year)

       

       

      So the Lightroom standalone purchaser saves $41/year, must wait for new features for up to two years, and doesn't have access to the latest Photoshop. Photoshop used to cost about $700 to purchase, and the upgrades weren't necessarily cheap. Now users can have the latest Lightroom with all its features, PLUS Photoshop (latest version with all of its features) for $41/year extra. Where do standalone buyers find the REAL value in their purchase of a Lightroom standalone license?

        • 1. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
          dj_paige Level 9

          I don't use Photoshop, I haven't yet felt the need for DeHaze, and I have $41 extra dollars per year.

          • 2. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
            JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Yes, I can see your point. It's easy to discount the value other features such as the dehaze slider when you haven't had it available. I find that I turn to it frequently since I have  it. I used Photoshop CS6 for a long time arguing that I didn't need the shake reduction filter or the Camera Raw filter. I will admit that I don't turn to Photoshop all that often. But when I do it's nice to know that I have those features available because I use them. I guess the value really is in the eyes of the user. To me, it's worth $41/year to have Photoshop.

            • 3. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
              effeegee Level 2

              Can't say I follow your financials - if upgrades are every two years a perpetual user pays $79 once every two years - yes change to  LR 6 and then LR 7 and I accept your numbers but not applicable (in my case)

              Well given the debacle over LR6.x  I'm glad that I don't feel a comlusive need to upgrade from LR5.7.1. I cannot take advantage of some of the (minor) upgrades ike GPU acceleration because my PC is 4 years old. The more likely scenario is to go straight to LR7. I admit I'd like to try other features (mobile(n/a perpetual) / panorama / HDR / deHaze (not available on any LR6 version) but will not do so until I have compelling reasons, have the processing power and they are available on a perpetual basis. Other hardware investment workflow changes and more critically catalogue compatibility and obligatory engagement with DNG file formats are other considerations. 

               

              Many features of 5.x are not ones I need or use and 6.x / CC just reinforce it. As for Photoshop well I'm happy in the dark ages …    

              • 4. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Okay, I will accept your argument as well. But many users have complained on the forum that they think it's unfair that they don't get all the new features because they purchased Lightroom and feel they are entitled to everything Lightroom has to offer in the future. If you're satisfied being stuck at 5.7.1, then you win. You don't need the new features because you have never used them. I have the new features, and am happy that I have them.

                • 5. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                  Keith_Reeder Level 4

                  You're a brave man to try and rationalise the irrational, Jim - there's no good reason that I've seen for the anti-CC bias (as you say, the "I don't own the software" line is entirely bogus) so the only half-sensible argument I can think of is that the standalone versions continue to work once the flow of money to Adobe stops: but of course, that ignores the fact that for many, sooner or later a new camera (and the need for support for that camera) will mean shelling out for a new version of Lr anyway.

                   

                  For me, availability of the ongoing improvements/enhancements that come with CC membership (I really like DeHaze, for example) is a big selling point, and I find the yammering from people who want the new stuff now but who aren't prepared to do the easy, obvious thing to get it, deeply tiresome.

                   

                  I'm not awash with disposable income, but $41 a year isn't a deal-breaker for me - I truly feel I'm getting a lot for that money, especially when PhotoShop is thrown into the equation.

                   

                  I do use PhotoShop - a lot - and while I've thoroughly investigated most, and actually own many, of the "alternatives" available to Windows, from PaintShop Pro to Photoline and many in between (and I'll try Affinity Photo if/when it ever gets ported to Windows), the simple fact is that nothing else comes close in terms of features and effectiveness, because even where PhotoShop and an alternative share a feature - "highlight recovery", for example - they don't do it nearly as well as PhotoShop.

                   

                  So I'm with you, Jim: there's no real logical reason to hate CC as much as some people do: but mindless, irrational (and frequently uninformed) prejudice is an unfortunate part of the Human Condition in some quarters...

                  • 6. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                    bob frost Level 3

                    I don't use Photoshop, I haven't yet felt the need for DeHaze, and I have $41 extra dollars per year.

                    .......................................................................................... ............

                     

                    Well, I used Photoshop before LR was invented, and still use it to do those things that LR can't do. So it is much cheaper for me to have the Photography Plan than to keep LR and Photoshop up-to-date.

                     

                    You obviously don't know what you are missing.

                     

                    Bob Frost

                    • 7. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                      dj_paige Level 9

                      bob frost wrote:

                       

                      I don't use Photoshop, I haven't yet felt the need for DeHaze, and I have $41 extra dollars per year.

                      .......................................................................................... ............

                       

                      Well, I used Photoshop before LR was invented, and still use it to do those things that LR can't do. So it is much cheaper for me to have the Photography Plan than to keep LR and Photoshop up-to-date.

                       

                      You obviously don't know what you are missing.

                       

                      Bob Frost

                      No, I understand the power of Photoshop, but I also get what I need from Lightroom and my Photoshop Elements.

                       

                      You may think I need Photoshop, but that is not your decision to make. Nor is it your decision to make on how I spend my $41/year.

                      • 8. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                        bob frost Level 3

                        Ah, but you didn't say you had bought Photoshop Elements as well as Lightroom. That has many of the tricks that are in Photoshop CC, so you may have spent as much as the Cc Photography package.

                         

                        Bob Frost

                        • 9. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                          ProDesignTools MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                          JimHess wrote:

                           

                          So the Lightroom standalone purchaser saves $41/year, must wait for new features for up to two years, and doesn't have access to the latest Photoshop. Photoshop used to cost about $700 to purchase, and the upgrades weren't necessarily cheap. Now users can have the latest Lightroom with all its features, PLUS Photoshop (latest version with all of its features) for $41/year extra. Where do standalone buyers find the REAL value in their purchase of a Lightroom standalone license?

                           

                          Actually Photoshop Extended (what you get with the CC Photography Plan) used to cost $999 upfront (plus $349 for a single-version upgrade) before the advent of Creative Cloud.

                           

                          Based on dollar value, getting Photoshop is the big dog for most customers – with Lightroom as the bonus.

                           

                          Adding it up, the breakeven is ~10 years compared to the old model, and that's not even counting any upgrades.

                          • 10. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                            Bob Somrak Level 6

                            The several people I know that are on the Photography CC plan use it mostly for Lightroom with Photoshop being the bonus.  For me I can do most of my edits in LR and only use Photoshop for 2% of my photos.

                            • 11. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                              habanr

                              The problem is that in Europe the Creative plan doesn't cost 10$ but 12Euro which is about 13.4$. As an amateur I don't need Photoshop at all therefore such month fee is too much for my hobby - it's better to spare money and buy some decent lens later. For me is better to pay upgrade once in two years.

                              • 12. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                ProDesignTools MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                Hi habanr,

                                 

                                It's a common oversight to not take the local taxes into account – but when you compare apples-to-apples (including the taxes), the prices are much closer.

                                 

                                    US: Before taxes $9.99, add sales taxes of 5-9% depending on the state... US prices are quoted before taxes.

                                 

                                    Europe: Before taxes €9.99, add VAT up of 19-27% depending on the country.... European prices are quoted after taxes.

                                 

                                So the net to Adobe is not so different as it appears at first glance, because of the different conventions in how prices are quoted

                                • 13. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                  whsprague Adobe Community Professional

                                  My irrational excuse is that it is fun to learn something so complex as Photoshop.  It is like going to a brain gym.  My DW agrees that my old brain needs the exercise.  She is kind enough to not send me to the muscle gym.  The Adobe brain gym is cheaper than the local body builder gym too!

                                  • 16. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                    John Waller Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    I take it that's across all plans?

                                     

                                    Some paying $50/mo, some $20/mo and some $10/mo.

                                    • 17. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                      Paul E Level 1

                                      I choose perpetual. And I advise my college students that unless they need Photoshop (which as straight photographers who learn LR well don't need) then they should buy the perpetual license. I'm sure I'll be flamed for that. But, the truth is, we have choice. And until Adobe takes that away (which they've promised they won't) this whole conversation is moot.

                                       

                                      I don't need Photoshop. and "throwing it in" is not an enticement for me. Perhaps if there was a $4.99/month Lightroom only CC, I would bite. But, I don't upgrade every version. And I've been here since B 0.5. And I'm a huge advocate of LR.

                                       

                                      Adobe gave me V1. I bought upgrades to V3, V4 and V6. If I stopped at V6.x right now, and only used the DNG converter to use new bodies with LR going forward, I'd be happy.

                                       

                                      As some have said on this post, they don't understand the irrational decision to stay with perpetual, well... I don't understand all the non-Adobe employees feeling the need to try and shame us who go that route. To each their own. This is truly a boring, tired argument.

                                       

                                      Move along everyone and use what you need and feel comfortable with.

                                      • 18. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                        whsprague Adobe Community Professional

                                        Paul E wrote:

                                         

                                        .. I advise my college students that unless they need Photoshop (which as straight photographers who learn LR well don't need) then they should buy the perpetual license. .....

                                        I'm not sure what a "straight photographer" is and I don't want to flame you.  But, if I was one of your students and my goal in college was the quest for knowledge, I would feel cheated without an exposure to Photoshop. 

                                         

                                        I do agree it is a boring argument.  Based on what film once cost, the price of fuel, my cell phone bill and going out to lunch, a discussion about how to get Adobe stuff the cheapest way possible in not nearly as fun as figuring out layers, masks, composites and high dynamic range processing.

                                        • 19. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                          Paul E Level 1

                                          Well, being college, I am not their only instructor. Other instructors feel differently. The students have access to school computers with both installed, They learn both in their education here. I simply advice them to hold off on making a decision until they realize their own, individual ongoing need.

                                           

                                          Straight photography is: Photography. Photography without "Extra". Extra being defined as pixel based manipulations, image stacking/layering, composites, object removal/additions, warping etc. Think of the difference between what a journalsi does and what a commercial photographer who retouches/combines images does.

                                           

                                          Straight photography isn't just journalism, by the way. It is any photography that is simply the single image without heavy manipulation. And today, with modern cameras and modern LR and good technique with both, there is no need for pixel based editors unless you want to take your photography from "real" to the imaginary. Or "More Than" real. (Unless I am seriously mistaken, this is why Adobe built LR. And why LR keeps gaining Photography-centric features that used to belong to the realm of Photoshop)

                                           

                                          This is what I tell my students. I want them to know that photography does NOT need Photoshop (or other similar programs) any longer. Especially if you are just learning photography and imaging today, without a history of using Photoshop before LR was available and mature.

                                           

                                          ...and last but not least... my students who desire a career in journalism, I tell them, emphatically, that even half of what I teach them with Lightroom's Develop module isn't allowed in their field, let alone Photoshopping...

                                          • 20. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                            ProDesignTools MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                            John Waller wrote:

                                             

                                            I take it that's across all plans?

                                             

                                            Some paying $50/mo, some $20/mo and some $10/mo.

                                             

                                            Yes. In terms of product mix, Adobe stated recently that the percentage of customers of taking the complete Creative Cloud (all apps) is higher than it was with the old CS offering with suites vs. individual tools.

                                            • 21. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                              whsprague Adobe Community Professional

                                              Paul E wrote:

                                               

                                              Well, being college, I am not their only instructor. Other instructors feel differently. The students have access to school computers with both installed, They learn both in their education here. I simply advice them to hold off on making a decision until they realize their own, individual ongoing need.

                                               

                                              Straight photography is: Photography. Photography without "Extra". Extra being defined as pixel based manipulations, image stacking/layering, composites, object removal/additions, warping etc. Think of the difference between what a journalsi does and what a commercial photographer who retouches/combines images does.

                                               

                                              Straight photography isn't just journalism, by the way. It is any photography that is simply the single image without heavy manipulation. And today, with modern cameras and modern LR and good technique with both, there is no need for pixel based editors unless you want to take your photography from "real" to the imaginary. Or "More Than" real. (Unless I am seriously mistaken, this is why Adobe built LR. And why LR keeps gaining Photography-centric features that used to belong to the realm of Photoshop)

                                               

                                              This is what I tell my students. I want them to know that photography does NOT need Photoshop (or other similar programs) any longer. Especially if you are just learning photography and imaging today, without a history of using Photoshop before LR was available and mature.

                                               

                                              ...and last but not least... my students who desire a career in journalism, I tell them, emphatically, that even half of what I teach them with Lightroom's Develop module isn't allowed in their field, let alone Photoshopping...

                                              Wow!

                                              • 22. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                                dustinr2137357

                                                While I have the subscription to the Creative Cloud (student/teacher edition), I'm frustrated that the DEHAZE slider and a few other features are only available on my home computer. Even though Adobe allows two installs, the second version doesn't have DEHAZE. And yes, I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling several times. This features is missing every time.

                                                 

                                                Has anyone found a work around for this?

                                                 

                                                Thanks

                                                Dustin

                                                • 23. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                                  john beardsworth Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  No-one's found a workaround because it's not generally a problem.

                                                   

                                                  It may relate to the student/teacher edition, but start your own thread and post the first few lines copied from the second computer's Help > System Info.

                                                  • 24. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                                    Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                                                    dustinr2137357 wrote:

                                                     

                                                    While I have the subscription to the Creative Cloud (student/teacher edition), I'm frustrated that the DEHAZE slider and a few other features are only available on my home computer. Even though Adobe allows two installs, the second version doesn't have DEHAZE. And yes, I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling several times. This features is missing every time.

                                                     

                                                    Has anyone found a work around for this?

                                                     

                                                    Thanks

                                                    Dustin

                                                    I have LR CC 2015.5.1 install on 2 computers, main desktop and a notebook, and the Dehaze feature is on/in both.

                                                    For the Dehaze feature to be active and show up at all you must be using the 2012 (Current) Process. Using any early Process omits the Dehaze feature.

                                                     

                                                    There is no difference between any of the current LR versions as to how they are installed, the files installed on a computer, OS dependent, and how the program works.

                                                     

                                                    So just because you have a Student/Teacher version (Actually a Subscription. The program is the same) doesn't stop the Dehaze feature from appearing in both installs. It is the Process you have selected for certain images.

                                                    • 25. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                                      99jon Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                      Hi Dustin

                                                       

                                                      Are you sure the latest version is launching and not an earlier version. The splash screen should show 2015.5.1 Release. If the splash screen is disabled, you can find out by going to the top menu:

                                                      Help >> About Adobe Photoshop Lightroom CC

                                                      If you have an earlier version installed, you can update using the direct download link below:

                                                      https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/lightroom-downloads.html

                                                      • 26. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                                        dustinr2137357 Level 1

                                                        Thank you. I'm certain an earlier version is opening on my laptop. Tried going to Help menu as you suggested. It said 2015 Release - Camera Raw 9.0 (I'm guessing that's the older version). Strangely, when I log in to my Creative Cloud account and uninstall/reinstall Lightroom, it keeps giving me the older version on my laptop. I

                                                         

                                                        I must be doing something wrong, but I can't figure it out.

                                                         

                                                        I see there's a helpline to call. I'll call them when they open this week. Thank you for your help.

                                                         

                                                        Cheers,

                                                        Dustin

                                                        • 27. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                                          dustinr2137357 Level 1

                                                          I did check -- using the 2012 Process. Still, no dehaze. It's definitely the old version of lightroom. Can't figure out why this version keeps opening.

                                                           

                                                          Thanks anyway,

                                                          Dustin

                                                          • 28. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                                            Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                                                            Use this link to update your LR install to the newest version.

                                                             

                                                            Keeping Lightroom Up-to-Date

                                                             

                                                            You should be running LR CC/6 2015.5.1/6.5.1

                                                             

                                                            You can also use the Creative Cloud desktop app to do the update but sometimes that app gets stuck and doesn't show the updates.

                                                            1 person found this helpful
                                                            • 30. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                                              99jon Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                              If you are re-installing start with LR6.0/LRCC 2015.0 available from this link:

                                                              https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/lightroom-downloads.html

                                                               

                                                              After successful installation go straight to the download for 6.5.1/2015.5.1

                                                              • 31. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                                                dustinr2137357 Level 1

                                                                Tried again. It said I'm using Adobe Lightroom CC, but it's not the same version as the one on my desktop. No dehaze slider.

                                                                 

                                                                Arg.

                                                                 

                                                                Thanks anyway.

                                                                 

                                                                Dustin

                                                                • 32. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                                                  Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                                                                  dustinr2137357 wrote:

                                                                   

                                                                  Tried again. It said I'm using Adobe Lightroom CC, but it's not the same version as the one on my desktop. No dehaze slider.

                                                                   

                                                                  Arg.

                                                                   

                                                                  Thanks anyway.

                                                                   

                                                                  Dustin

                                                                  Tried what again?

                                                                  Download the 6.5.1/2015.5.1 update from the link provided and install it.

                                                                  What operating system are you running.

                                                                  Go to Help About LR and post the exact version shown.

                                                                  • 33. Re: The real value of Lightroom 6 vs the Creative Cloud Photography Plan
                                                                    TRAK Level 1

                                                                    The cheapest I can find Lightroom 6 standalone is $143 so the CC is even more attractive.