18 Replies Latest reply on Jan 15, 2016 5:27 PM by Bill Gehrke

    m.2 or ssd

    mohammad_01

      Hi guys,

       

      Does After Effects and Premiere support m.2 cuz i confuse between m.2 ssd and (2x ssd).

        • 1. Re: m.2 or ssd
          cc_merchant Level 4

          "Does After Effects and Premiere support m.2 cuz i confuse between m.2 ssd and (2x ssd)."

           

          Is similar to:

           

          Does After Effects and Premiere support keyboard cuz i confuse between usb and ps2.

           

          What do you mean?

          • 2. Re: m.2 or ssd
            mohammad_01 Level 1

            Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

             

            Cuz in requirement of these application required raid0 not m.2

            • 3. Re: m.2 or ssd
              Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              m.2 is an SSD with just a different interface. Either you need a m.2 connector on your motherboard or and a PCIe x4 adapter card, hopefully you have a PCIe 3.0 bus.  Since the M.2 SSD's can be 10 times or more faster than your hard disk drives and 4x faster than your fastest SATA interface SSD.  Here is the CrystalDiskMark great results on my X99 PCIe motherboard

              950-PRO-X99-PCIe3.0-Win-8.1.png

              Notice that this benchmark has a potential sequential 1530 MB/s, with our PPBM benchmark I can actually write to this device at 1500 MB/second.

               

              Now if you have an older motherboard that is only PCIe 2.0 then you will only get this type of performance.  On older systems you will have to install the Samsung driver if you have an NVME device.

              950-PRO-X58-PCIe2.0-Win-7.png

              X58 motherboard (PCIe 2.0) Win 7

               

              With this superfast 500 GB device you can put all your project files on it and do not need to go with lots of different disk drives, just use those old antique hard disk drives for archiving and backups.  I am using the Samsung 950 Pro, SM951 (non-NVMe)..

               

              I guess Adobe should update their requirements

              • 4. Re: m.2 or ssd
                mikeklar Level 1

                Bill

                I seem to be less fortunate as my X99-e mother board doesn't give me the full speed the specifications allude to.

                See below:

                Any suggestions on how to improve on this?

                Cheers

                • 5. Re: m.2 or ssd
                  mikeklar Level 1

                  Update

                  All I did is set the TPU switch to "Enable (CPU BCLK and Ratio Boost)" ... but still needs more tweaking...

                  Cheers

                  • 6. Re: m.2 or ssd
                    Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Great--more later

                    • 7. Re: m.2 or ssd
                      Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I just checked my TPU switch and as I thought it is disabled, but in the manual BIOS adjustments I am running my BCLK at 125 MHz with a multiplier of 36. Years ago that would have been insane.  I cannot recall immediately how I accomplished that with out enabling that TPU switch but I would guess that when you enabled your TPU setting your BCLK x Multiplier jumped up considerable, running your CPU faster.  We may have establish rule #1 in optimizing the 950 Pro.  Results are apparently CPU speed dependent.  When I get more time, I will try a few more tests to see if that might be the reason your results improved.significantly.

                      • 8. Re: m.2 or ssd
                        mikeklar Level 1

                        Frankly, I didn't think it would make any difference, but reading the manual it was something I had planned to set to, due to previous attempts at setting the BCLK to 125MHz the system would crash.  So, it was a pleasant surprise.

                        First thing this morning I ran the test again and the numbers are still close to yesterday's.

                        Have to retry setting the BCLK frequency.  Maybe tomorrow.

                        Cheers

                        • 9. Re: m.2 or ssd
                          mikeklar Level 1

                          Today, after several attempts to increase the CPU speed and not very successfully, I noticed the Samsung 950 Pro had slowed back to what it was a few days ago.  Nothing I did changed that.

                          Checking ASUS' web site they have an updated BIOS dated 9 Nov 2015, bios version 0602, one of the issues this version is noted to resolve is random stability with PCIe SSDs.

                          Manually updating to this version from 0501 resolved the issue as can be seen below.  This also resolved my long standing problem with improving performance, i.e. the CPU clock now runs at 4375 MHz and the BCLK frequency is now at 125 MHz.

                          Cheers

                          • 10. Re: m.2 or ssd
                            RjL190365 Level 4

                            Bill Gehrke wrote:

                             

                            m.2 is an SSD with just a different interface. Either you need a m.2 connector on your motherboard or and a PCIe x4 adapter card, hopefully you have a PCIe 3.0 bus.  Since the M.2 SSD's can be 10 times or more faster than your hard disk drives and 4x faster than your fastest SATA interface SSD.  Here is the CrystalDiskMark great results on my X99 PCIe motherboard

                            950-PRO-X99-PCIe3.0-Win-8.1.png

                            Notice that this benchmark has a potential sequential 1530 MB/s, with our PPBM benchmark I can actually write to this device at 1500 MB/second.

                             

                            Now if you have an older motherboard that is only PCIe 2.0 then you will only get this type of performance.  On older systems you will have to install the Samsung driver if you have an NVME device.

                            950-PRO-X58-PCIe2.0-Win-7.png

                            X58 motherboard (PCIe 2.0) Win 7

                             

                            With this superfast 500 GB device you can put all your project files on it and do not need to go with lots of different disk drives, just use those old antique hard disk drives for archiving and backups.  I am using the Samsung 950 Pro, SM951 (non-NVMe)..

                             

                            I guess Adobe should update their requirements

                            Those of you who have a Haswell LGA 1150 system (such as myself) need not apply: Such a platform simply does not have a sufficient number of PCIe 3.0 lanes. Thus, most Z97 motherboards run the m.2 socket off of the PCH's PCIe 2.0 lanes. In the case of my system's Asus Z97-AR motherboard, the m.2 slot runs at only PCIe 2.0 x2 bandwidth - and then, the two PCIe x1 slots will become disabled if the m.2 socket is enabled. At PCIe 2.0 x2 bandwidth, that Samsung 950 PRO will have a write speed of only about 700-ish MB/second. That result is not sufficiently faster than a SATA SSD to justify the 950 PRO's current price premium for this particular system. One will need an LGA 1151 (Skylake) or LGA 2011 v3 (Haswell-E) platform in order to fully utilize the throughput of this m.2 SSD.

                            • 11. Re: m.2 or ssd
                              Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Thanks for the additional limits and capabilities. 

                              • 12. Re: m.2 or ssd
                                RjL190365 Level 4

                                Bill,

                                 

                                In addition to what I had stated, the Z97 PCH itself is the limiting factor: It has a total combined throughput of only about 1600 MB/second (or 1.6 GB/second). And that's read speed. Write speed combined is only about 1.3 GB/second. And just three SATA SSDs in RAID 0 would hit the throughput limit of the Z97 PCH. And if one uses that PCIe 2.0 x2 m.2 slot on most Z97 motherboards, then no more than about 1.0 GB/second would then become available for other PCIe 2.0 devices. Thus, on such a limited platform the only way to get those high speeds from the 950 PRO would be to install the SSD on a PCIe 3.0 x4 adapter card, then install it in the secondary PCIe 3.0 x16 slot (which would then drop the main GPU bandwidth to PCIe 3.0 x8).

                                 

                                And these speeds apply only to the 512GB version of the 950 PRO. The 256GB version of the 950 PRO is substantially slower, especially in writes.

                                • 13. Re: m.2 or ssd
                                  Confused4ever

                                  I just want to say Bill Gehrke, RJL 90365 and mikeklar;

                                  this Post has been Very Educational For me. I am in the phase of building my PC workstation which I am hoping to utilize for Adobe Premiere and After Effects usage, and was trying to decide how my hard drive setup should be based on a x99 motherboard.

                                  (I haven't purchased the motherboard yet but was looking into Asus x99 Deluxe, Asus SABERTOOTH (which I read real nice things about and x99 deluxe had a lot of issues from people have been posting on youtube) and as alternative: MSI X99A SLI Krait ATX

                                   

                                  I try to organize the hard drive setup into;

                                  -OS/Programs

                                  -Source Drive (Media Drive any footage I bring in / capture)

                                  -Render Drive (Final Rendered Footage or Masters from AE?)

                                  in some setups there is also "Cache / Storage" drive I know that people perhaps use for different drive configs some people get raid for media and render? I would love to hear your opinions on this but I am quite a newbie so I may ask you foolish questions?

                                  This research is going to matter in the end of what hard drives ssds or perhaps m.2 I will purchase for my from scratch build...

                                   

                                  Thanks again!

                                  • 14. Re: m.2 or ssd
                                    Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Very simple with your new X99 motherboard

                                    1. OS/Applications Samsung 850 Pro 256 GB SSD (with the default Premiere Media Cache and Media Cache File)
                                    2. All project files: Media, Project, Previews, and Exports on the Samsung 950 Pro 512 GB M.2 SSD.   When you are finished with current project move to the archiving
                                    3. All the Hard drives you want for backup and archiving.

                                    Do not complicate your system this works perfectly for me.  Get hard drives out of editing workflow they are obsolete for today's workstations

                                    • 15. Re: m.2 or ssd
                                      Confused4ever Level 1

                                      Thanks Bill

                                      I have a question, no 3 on your post 'All the hard drives' is that basically another drive, would you have raid 10 on any of the setups, past year when I started reading in the forums lots of video/after effects work stations, they like to have Raid 10? Believe me I am trying to stay more basic, but I also want to take advantage of the potential I may have, as my budged is going to be around $4000

                                      a little less a little more, it will be the most expensive thing I have ever built I am quite nervous...

                                      • 16. Re: m.2 or ssd
                                        Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Stay away from software RAID, it is not necessary and there are better ways to make sure your files are safe.  If you want to know more about RAID see this article on our Tweakers Page

                                        • 17. Re: m.2 or ssd
                                          Confused4ever Level 1

                                          Thank you Bill, I remember reading it, I will read again, software raid meaning on Board?

                                          You dont think Raid 10 (or raid 1+0) wouldn't run on board well enough?...

                                          • 18. Re: m.2 or ssd
                                            Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            The motherboards generally only have software RAID--yes.  Why complicate things when there no advantages.  RAID 10 requires four drives minimum.