7 Replies Latest reply on Dec 22, 2015 4:28 AM by Laubender

    Indesign CC2015 does not save crops as black only just as CMYK

    enricaa69954555

      saving indesign CC2015 file to pdf with crops. File contains CMYK and 100% black only pages. Still crops on black pages save as CMYK. Why is this happening again. I thought it was solved in back issues of indesign?

        • 1. Re: Indesign CC2015 does not save crops as black only just as CMYK
          Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

          If you export PDFs in CMYK, even one single color is only used all 4 process colors will be used for the registration color.

          • 2. Re: Indesign CC2015 does not save crops as black only just as CMYK
            Bo LeBeau Level 4

            There is nothing to solve, Crop marks and other printing marks are called Registration marks and that is why they use the color "Registration"

            They are composed of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black and they print on their respective plates to visually confirm that the color plates are printing in registration (directly on top of each other).

            When plates are out of registration the colors shift and they need to be adjusted until they line up and print on top of each other and are again in registration. The colors should then print correctly.

             

            If you only had crop marks/registration marks that only printed on the Black plate, how could you easily adjust the Cya, Magenta or Yellow plates?

             

            Exaggerated example of a mismatch of CMYK Registration:

            Missmatch_Registration.svg.png



            An example of registration misalignment, note the cyan and magenta plates are not in the exact place. Also halftones are visible on the top area.

            Registration_Misalignment.jpg

            • 3. Re: Indesign CC2015 does not save crops as black only just as CMYK
              Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

              Normally you will not use any registration marks for print anymore. If you export a PDF according one of the print standards, like PDF/X or VT you incloud the PDF boxes invisible (BleedBox, CropBox and others), where any modern printer can get page and cutting information.

              • 4. Re: Indesign CC2015 does not save crops as black only just as CMYK
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                I think the OP is looking for ID to print K-only marks on pages that have nothing but black ink. Of course you want full color marks to check registration on full-color work when you are working on a press, but you don't need them in monochrome work when there is noting to register, and they become a bit superfluous on a composite digital printer where you cannot adjust the registration.

                 

                In digital printing this is particularly important as the cost to print a color page (even if the only color is the marks) is far higher than for a K-only page. This is something I've been requesting for years, and I actually had the opportunity to have a conversation with the InDesign development team a short time ago, and I brought it up again and explained why it is becoming a more important feature to add as more and more printing goes digital.

                • 5. Re: Indesign CC2015 does not save crops as black only just as CMYK
                  Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  In digital printing this is particularly important as the cost to print a color page (even if the only color is the marks) is far higher than for a K-only page. This is something I've been requesting for years, and I actually had the opportunity to have a conversation with the InDesign development team a short time ago, and I brought it up again and explained why it is becoming a more important feature to add as more and more printing goes digital.

                   

                  Hi Peter,

                  yes, converting or printing a page as K-only is a great feature request.

                  One can get around this in two ways:

                   

                  1. Print to a PostScript file doing color separation for Black only, distill to PDF and print the PDF.

                  2. Convert an exported PDF to the GrayScale color space during export.

                   

                  Or on a further step you can use Acrobat Pro or a 3rd party tool like PitStop Pro or pdfToolbox by Callas Software etc.pp. where you have more fine-grained controls for the conversion process from color to GrayScale. Using the export feature of InDesign often leads to bad results for 100 K objects like text where you end up with around 4% GrayScale (equals 96% K) instead of 0% GrayScale (equals 100% K).

                   

                  Also, it would be cool to use DeviceLink technology* for color transformation by exporting to PDF in InDesign (another feature request !! ) where the special device link profile exactly dictates the conversion process. It would be a great boon, if Adobe would implement this and would provide some decent profiles for ISO Coated, ISO Uncoated and some other purposes.

                   

                  * To see what device link technology is capable of, see the following example on impressed.de

                  Impressed - Produktnews: ColorLogic DeviceLink-Profile

                  There you can download an example where several color ramps of rgb colors are converted to e.g. pure Magenta or pure Cyan values:

                  http://www.impressed.de/DOWNLOADS/DeviceLink-Profile/RGB-CMYK_DeviceLinktest.zip

                   

                  Uwe

                  • 6. Re: Indesign CC2015 does not save crops as black only just as CMYK
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    It's important for mixed color and gray documents, too, so that the composite printer sees color pages as color and black pages as black. I don't know anything about PitStop or pdfToolbox, but of course that requires an oprator who actually HAS PitStop or pdfToolbox, and distilling seps won't cut it. My current workaround is to add marks manually in the slug area on the master page and include in the export, but I think the engineers actually "get it" now and have some hope this will be added. I suspect it isn't much different from detecting the use of spot colors to add them to Registration.

                    • 7. Re: Indesign CC2015 does not save crops as black only just as CMYK
                      Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Yes, the trick would be sending color information for colored pages and grayscale for black and white pages when printing a mixed document where some pages are meant to be grayscale and some meant to be in color.

                       

                      But I guess, it's not that easy for converting RGB, lab, MixedInk, spot colors and CMYK elements to GrayScale.

                      Thus my feature request for implementing device link technology.

                       

                      A first step would be, that InDesign is able to detect GrayScale and Device Black content only pages and output to Black color only in this case.

                      A control the user can switch on and off. Or a feature where the user is aloud to set page ranges for the required output, be it color or GrayScale.

                       

                      Btw. currently in scripting InDesign CC-2015.1 and above we have a colorTransform() method that supports:


                      ColorSpace.RGB

                      ColorSpace.CMYK

                      ColorSpace.LAB

                      ColorSpace.MIXEDINK

                       

                      No support for ColorSpace.GRAYSCALE

                      I think, it would be necessary to implement this.

                       

                      Uwe