16 Replies Latest reply on Feb 22, 2017 6:29 PM by joshcali

    Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder

    SpeedGrade Color Wheels

      I could select picture in their folders using the pick flag. The use attribute to select picks only and move the group of picks into a collection. From there I would further refine what pictures I wanted again using pick to flag my selections. Now when I pick or unpick a picture in either the folder or the collection file, the corresponding picture change in the folder or collection. I may be using one collection to decide on pictures to upload to the web and use a second collection with the same pictures to select for pictures I will use in a book. But instead, selection a pick in any one folder or collection changes that picture to a pick in any folder or collection it is located. Was LR changed and is there a setting I can use to turn off the synchronization. It makes no sense a picture and selection are all tied together.

        • 1. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
          Wolf Eilers Level 4

          Earlier releases of Lightroom allowed picks to be specific to a collection but, apparently, there was so much user confusion about this feature that Adobe abandoned it and only allows picks to be global. I liked picks to be collection specific but now do not miss this feature.

          • 2. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
            robgendreau Level 3

            Yeah, I found it sometimes useful, sometimes not.

             

            But I now view the pick flag as a more temporary designation. Once I use picks to get a group and collect them, I erase the flag. If I want something more permanent I use other metadata, like ratings (for overall), labels (for type of export I wanna use), etc. Or separate collections.

             

            In your scheme, eg, a star could be for a pick, three for web, five for a book. Then you can filter and collect in whatever combo you wish. Or labels, which might work better because you can have different label sets. Or a combo of flags labels: that's why they are configured to work quickly with 1-9 on your keyboard.

            • 3. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
              SpeedGrade Color Wheels Level 1

              I believe if its not broke don't fix it. I've been using LR since the first release and its not just the change going forward but the bigger problem is I've got 2tb of pics coded using the pick flag.

               

              Going forward I really appreciate your recommendations. After I figure out what to do with all the picks in my 150k picture library. This seems a lot like the fix they made to the import process. Hope  this Adobe fix was worth what they broke. Thanks.

              • 4. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
                Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                Why not use some other method for the picking of images in the first collection you created with the Flag pick. Like using a color for selecting images in that collect to be placed in another collection or uploaded to a website.

                A collection is just a Grouping of images. It does not copy or move images into a/the Collections folder.

                 

                IMHO it is the way it should be. If I Flag an image in a collection then that image should be Flagged in the folder it actually is stored in and because it is Flagged in the original folder and it would be Flagged in every collection it is in.

                This seem completely normal to me as you only have One Copy of every image file stored on your system. If you edited an image then it got a new name or extension when exporting it. Or in the case of Virtual copies those should be treated separately from the original. Flagging or setting a color of a VC does not Flag or set a color on the original.

                • 5. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
                  Geoff the kiwi Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  SpeedGrade Color Wheels wrote:

                   

                  I believe if its not broke don't fix it. I've been using LR since the first release and its not just the change going forward but the bigger problem is I've got 2tb of pics coded using the pick flag.

                   

                  Going forward I really appreciate your recommendations. After I figure out what to do with all the picks in my 150k picture library. This seems a lot like the fix they made to the import process. Hope  this Adobe fix was worth what they broke. Thanks.

                  This was changed some time ago... you can see how much activity there is complaining.... not much at all!!

                  You must not have upgraded for many versions.... I suggest you open your olde catalogs in the old version you have been using and apply a new method to the flagged files... then upgraded the catalogs.

                  • 6. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
                    robgendreau Level 3

                    I eventually came to the same conclusion as Shootistbond007. We need the global ones.

                     

                    A flag is relative; it means "this but not that." Or "this photo but none other in Lr." If flags were context sensitive, they'd have to change every time you moved to another context, whether it be folder, collection, etc. I can see the utility of such context sensitivity, but I think we'd need a different flag for that. And one must conside the other flag, the "x." If a context sensitive flag system were to exist, it would mean "delete from collection" as opposed to a global delete.

                     

                    So while context sensitive flags would be nice, they perhaps should be so different they don't get confused with global flags, which are necessary and simple to use. A feature like "collection banners" could be a nice tool, a set of markers that are only visible in the colllection in which they are created. Or collection specific labels, different from the global labels. So you could have a label system for your B&W collection that might designate a photo as being excellent, while that same photo in the Color collection might have the so-so label. You can't do that with labels now since a photo can only have one label.

                     

                    The solution at the present time would be to use virtual copies, since you can attach different criteria to them than the main photo. You flag photos in a folder, then select them, and then when using the contextual menu to make a collection, use the option to make virtual copies. Once in the collection, unflag the VCs and then re-flag as needed.

                    • 7. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
                      SpeedGrade Color Wheels Level 1

                      I’ve had several responses and suggestions which I appreciate. I’ve been using LR since it was introduced and still have the book I used to learn the functionality and structural tips. One of the tips I’ve followed all these years is keep it simple and the suggestion was in reference to the many ways you could rate pictures. The approach used by the author and one I adopted was using flags. Adobe at that was recommending multiple levels of what was good or not good which approached almost meaningless rankings. So for the last seven/eight years using flags has satisfied my needs.

                       

                      The primary way I use flags is I will load the pictures from a shoot. Then review and pull those I know I provide a good image. I copy these into a collection with nothing selected and I then let the client select the shots they want by simply flagging their picks. At that point I take their picks and finish editing. I keep the folder and the collection as they were selected making it easier to go back and quickly pull pictures when needed. I appreciate there are other processes to accomplish this but I question was it necessary. The issue I have  nowis going forward there is a “new” method but what about the 150k pictures that are coded this way in my library which is over 2TB.

                       

                      For someone new to LR I agree this new way flag function is normal but for those of us who have been doing it this way for close to a decade and have hundreds of files setup this way, it’s a big change and I couldn’t find anything showing this change was made. The reality is Adobe like every other software company is looking to increase sales and they see the casual mobile user as a rich target. Unfortunately it is also a collection of people who don’t know a folder from a manhole cove and can only identify that they have a picture. So the function is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Good for the casual low-end consumer but not necessary a good thing for those using the product in a professional environment or a business.

                       

                      In my view this is like the overhaul Adobe did to the import process. It was another effort in fixing something that wasn’t broke but instead was a hurdle for the casual user used to Apple Pictures  or Dropbox who only wants simplicity. Something the blogs demonstrated wasn’t appreciated by those of us who have been with the product for a long time.

                       

                      thanks for your response.

                      • 8. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
                        SpeedGrade Color Wheels Level 1

                        No, I know the change was made awhile ago but was hoping Adobe would provide a legacy approach like they did after screwing up the Import process. After just working with a batch of old pictures I finally decided to post the question hoping an option was there and I was just not finding it. I have hundreds of folders and corresponding collections. The process I learned in the first release and in reading how to keep things simple was Pick the pictures I know will produce a good image. I then copy these Picks into a collection and let the client select their Picks which I then edit for delivery. Basically the client creates a subset out of the best shots but often other pictures are identified and moved into the collection. On occasion we have to go back and having the folders and collections stored as they were selected makes this very easy. Maintaining and switching back and forth between versions is overhead and time I cannot afford.

                         

                        These changes to function that was close to a decade a part of LR came as Adobe moved their focus to mobile apps. The reality is Adobe like every other software company is looking to increase sales and they see the casual mobile user as a rich target. Unfortunately it is also a collection of people who don’t know a folder from a manhole cover and can only identify that they have a picture. So the function is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Good for the casual low-end consumer but not necessary good for those using the product in a professional environment or a business.

                         

                        In my view this is like the overhaul Adobe did to the import process. It was another effort in fixing something that wasn’t broke but instead was a hurdle for the casual user who is used to Apple Pictures or Dropbox and requires a very simple interface. Something the blogs demonstrated wasn’t appreciated by those of us who have been with the product for many years. Difference here in my view is there were so many options for grading and ranking pictures that there was no defined way you had to do things and why you don’t have the same level of feedback.

                        • 9. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
                          Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                          I completely disagree with you about the Flag option and the import dialog window change. The Flag system now is what it should be. Not sure how it was before but If I Flag a photo I want that flag displayed no matter how I am viewing the image. In a collection, by keyword or in a folder. It would be totally confusing to flag a photo in a folder and not have that flag show up if I placed that image in a collection or moved it to another folder.

                           

                          The change to the import dialog was just STUPID thinking. The way the flagging of images works is totally logical.

                           

                          If this bother you so much once the images are in a collection and maybe you have created and move those Flagged images into it own folder Remove the original Flags. They aren't needed anymore because they are in a collection and it their own folder.

                           

                          You do know that placing an image in a collection doesn't actually move or copy that image into some other folder. Just checking.

                          • 10. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
                            SpeedGrade Color Wheels Level 1

                            So you are saying it didn’t work for all those years and after close to a decade of people using the product Adobe just figured out there was a problem and fixed it. All of us users for all these years can now see the Light(room).

                             

                            Well, let me ask you. You do know you can copy pictures into a collection from more than one folder. Just checking. And by copy because it seems we need to be literal here, I don’t mean copy the physical file but instead the process of setting up a reference pointer to the physical file stored inside a folder into a virtual area labeled a Collection and stored inside a folder referred to as the catalog. Meaning a Collection is just as the name defines — an independent collection of references to physical files creating a New Grouping of images. A “Collection" that a user was able to sort and work with independently from the folder where the physical file is actually located and independent of other Collection(s) where the same physical file was referenced. Being able to work with a Unique Group or Collection independently provided great flexibility and something someone might consider “Logical”. And again with the need to be literal, when I say "work with" I do not mean take into the Develop module and edit.

                             

                            I'll attempt to clarify with a very basic example. I select pictures using Pick from an event and copy them into a Collection that will be used for various production purposes. I also have key pictures from all events throughout the year that I copy into a separate Collection. I use this separate Collection at the end of the year to pick what I consider the best shots of the year. In the past at the end of the year I could simply take this Collection of key pictures and Pick the top pictures within it to use for making a calendar or card or a video. There may be several hundred pictures from dozens of folders in this separate Collection and Lightroom would let me Pick independently without disturbing any of the Pick designations in any other Collection or folder. So now with this great change or functionally logical fix, this capability is gone - now a Pick used for one application cannot be independent but must be “Global”. Defining this as logical is truly a stretch.

                             

                            These changes to functions that were a part of LR since product launch came as Adobe moves their focus to mobile apps. The reality is Adobe is looking to increase sales and they see the mobile user as a rich target. Unfortunately it also includes people who don’t know a folder from a manhole cover and can only identify that they have a picture. So the function is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator so it can be distributed through outlets like the App Store. Necessary for the casual unsophisticated consumer but not good for those using the product in a professional environment. Adobe is trying to serve two markets with one product and the result is there are sacrifices or changes with unintended consequences.

                             

                            I don’t think this change was driven by demand from the traditional LR user or it would have been addressed in previous releases going back to LR2. I believe the change was in fact the result of “Stupid Thinking” and is now in search of a way to define it as logical.

                             

                            Lets just “Completely Agree” to “Completely Disagree” and I’ll chalk it up to fixing something else that wasn’t broken.

                            • 11. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
                              john beardsworth Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              For a lot of people, it was broken - it was inconsistent and confusing. For others, it allowed useful flexibility.

                               

                              Around the same time, they added stacking in collections. Try using that instead.

                              • 13. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
                                Geoff the kiwi Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                When posting I think using the term "copy to a collection" is very misleading and confusing. Perhaps try the term "add to" as that is what is actually done... there is never a "copy" of a file in a collection unless it is a "virtual copy".

                                As has been mentioned consistency was one of the major reasons/logic for the change as Lightroom moves forward in the every increasing fluid mobile world. Syncing data, catalogs across devices to provide an everything available anywhere situation demands consistency and hence the change to flags.

                                 

                                Sent from my iPhone

                                • 14. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
                                  robgendreau Level 3

                                  SpeedGrade, I don't disagree with some of what you say, but we need to know if you want help changing and adapting or just discussing Adobe's practices.

                                   

                                  I don't quite understand what you have NOW with your legacy of picks in collections. If you have 1234.jpg, does it presently have a different pick status in different collections? IOW, is 1234.jpg flagged in Collection A but not Collection B?

                                   

                                  A flag is just a bit of info added to a photo, and so is a collection. You see 1234.jpg in Collection B&W with a pick, and 4321.jpg in that same collection without one. One is your best BW, the other not. There are other ways to add that same info in Lr. As I noted you could use VC's, or keywords, or labels, or maybe even ratings, or combos thereof. Or perhaps other metadata. It depends on what you already have, how you like to interface with those, and so on.

                                   

                                  From what you've already described I would think VCs are the solution. People use those all the time to present different crops, processing, etc for client review. As you noted, a photo "in" a collection is nothing but another representation of the original, labeled "Collection A." That's not much different in concept from a VC. But with VC's you could have the different versions together, which allows comparison where placing in collections does not (like B&W vs color). But they'd work as well in say a collection of images for the client to pick; he or she could rate and flag without disturbing or changing your picks of the same original in your "best of year" or whatever collection.

                                  • 15. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
                                    john beardsworth Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Stacking in collections is the like-for-like replacement for local flags. Lightroom's stacking is also primarily designed for the client review process, though of course it is very often used as a grouping mechanism.

                                    • 16. Re: Only want to flag picture as pick in collection not folder
                                      joshcali

                                      YES. SO MUCH THIS

                                       

                                      it's been a constant source of frustration for me that there's no longer a collection specific picking like flags used to be.

                                       

                                      I wish this was an option for collections. that would be SO freaking helpful.