29 Replies Latest reply on Jan 31, 2016 8:00 AM by trshaner

    Correct buildings and tilted images

    HoneyBadger78

      _DSC5199-HDR.jpg

       

       

      Hi,

       

      I am hoping someone can help me or at least let me know what I am doing wrong when trying to correct tilted images.

       

      Attached is the bane of my life at the moment, and I have done everything possible within the Lens Corrections panel in Lightroom 6 and I simply cannot correct the slanting floor tiles.

       

      Equipment used: Nikon D7100, Sigma 10-20mm 5.6 and tripod with cable release and ensuring all level.

        • 1. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
          Per Berntsen Adobe Community Professional

          I saved the image and imported it to LR, and it corrected reasonably well when I clicked Vertical under Lens Corrections.

          But Lightroom's automated perspective correction doesn't always work.

          I frequently have to use Photoshop's perspective crop tool in these situations. I finish all editing in LR, and then as the last step, correct the perspective in PS.


          Vertical.jpg

          • 2. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
            trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Please post the image with NO Transform corrections applied. If the camera wasn't level it will cause what you are seeing.

            • 3. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
              wobertc Adobe Community Professional

              That is distortion from the Wide angle lens- (Inherent in all extreme wide lenses)

              Have you tried Lens Corrections > Profile > Enable lens corrections.? (Not just the manual changes)

              If your Sigma lens is listed then it may do a correction.

              • 4. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                Per Berntsen Adobe Community Professional

                I missed the part about the slanting floor tiles, but they will be slanting, because they are photographed at an angle.

                It was the doorframe on the right not being vertical that caught my attention.

                Also, shooting an image like this on a tripod at ISO 1000 is a waste of quality - use 100 instead

                And, since this is a 5.6 lens, I would stop down to at least f/8, or maybe f/11.

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Per Berntsen wrote:

                   

                  I missed the part about the slanting floor tiles, but they will be slanting, because they are photographed at an angle.

                  Exactly! That's why professional interior photographers use expensive Shift lenses. You can get good results using a conventional wide angle lens by making sure that both the Verticals and horizontals are level. Here's an example of a similar interior shot with coverging verticals (Top Left) corrected in LR (Top Right). A 2nd shot was taken from the same exact location (Bottom) with Verticals and Horizontals both leveled. The camera was substantially lowered and the live view grid display turned on for visual alignment of verticals and horizontals. The 1st shot (Top) requires Vertical +68 and Rotate +1.9). The 2nd shot (Bottom) requires almost no transform correction (Vertical +1, Rotate -0.9).

                   

                  Shot with16mm focal length on a full frame Canon 5D MKII body, which is equivalent to the OP's 10mm focal length on the DX crop factor D7100 body. BTW this was shot handheld with flash at ISO 800.

                  Perspective Distortion Correction Example_IMG_5160.jpg

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    This series of proposed changes only works if you have a LR + PS subscription, not LR alone, and starts with the image you've posted, which may not be the original, so things could be somewhat different:

                     

                    First make the door vertical using Auto Upright - Vertical (something LR has as well although here I used the Camera Raw layer filter in Photoshop).  I also changed the Aspect to make the globe more circular and scaled down a bit so the entire original image was in bounds which gives more leeway for the next step:

                     

                    The main issue is the elongated floor tiles at the lower right because the room wasn't shot with the camera perpendicular to the far wall with the door.  In Photoshop I used Free Transform (Ctrl-T) in Warp mode to scrunch up the lower corners only, which returns some of the barrel distortion to the image but only the lower half and only in a way that keeps the lines of the tiles still relatively straight:

                     

                    The remaining step is to crop off the slanted and rounded edges:

                     

                    So the final image looks like this, which still has some non-vertical lines at the right and slightly curved tile grout, but the tiles aren't nearly as stretched as the original:

                     

                    With more time in the free-transform-warp step things might look slightly better than the above, but unless you shoot perpendicular to the far wall there will be an uneven downward slant to the floor at the corners.  The furniture hides this at the left so having something on the floor to the right might have helped.

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                      HoneyBadger78 Level 1

                      _DSC5199-HDR-3.jpg

                      Here's the original without any adjustments (expect HDR merging of 5 photographs). I alway have live view grid display turned on.

                      • 8. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                        HoneyBadger78 Level 1

                        I recently purchased Photoshop Elements 14 and I have a feeling this is not going to cut it. With other images, after all the corrections in LR6, the Image/Transform/Distort has worked fine; however, with this image it makes things worse. I will need to explore Elements further, alternatively upgrade to CC.

                        • 9. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                          HoneyBadger78 Level 1

                          I always select "Enable Profile Corrections" and "Constrain Crop".

                          • 10. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                            HoneyBadger78 Level 1

                            I've been contemplating getting a Nikkor 24mm Tilt-Shift Lens as well as a full frame body, the D810. If such an upgrade would prevent all the work required in post production then perhaps I should act on the contemplation. First, I will shoot less at an angle.

                            • 11. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Make sure the verticals are all parallel. If the Horizontal level is off by 1 or 2 degrees that's OK and can be corrected in LR with only a slight loss of cropped area. But "fixing" converging Verticals simply causes more elongation (i.e. slanted floor). See my example in reply #5.

                               

                              Try using the live view mode on your D7100 with 'Framing Guide' turned on. You also have a built-in level called Virtual Horizon. Read the D7100 user manual for more details on how to set and use these tools.

                              http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-customize-the-live-view-display-on-the-niko.h tml

                               

                              HoneyBadger78 wrote:

                              I've been contemplating getting a Nikkor 24mm Tilt-Shift Lens as well as a full frame body, the D810.

                              Shift lenses are useful when you can't physically reposition the camera to compose the shot with the verticals leveled (i.e. parallel). Think tall-buildings. if you could walk across the street to another building, climb to a floor half-way up and have parallel verticals...then no shift lens needed. This is where Shift lenses shine!. Unfortunately I think you'll find 24mm not nearly wide enough for many interior shots. You could use LR Merge to Panorama to get the desired view....but then you're making more work for yourself.

                               

                              You should be able to get very good results with your Sigma 10-20mm properly aligned. To minimize "elongation effects" use higher focal lengths such as 15mm when you can back up to compose the shot.

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                Per Berntsen Adobe Community Professional

                                Using a tilt-shift lens will make architectural work a lot easier, but you will still need to make minor corrections sometimes.

                                It's difficult to get the camera completely level on both axis, even if you use the camera's built-in level.The virtual horizon on my D800E is not accurate enough.

                                These minor corrections can usually be fixed in LR, but sometimes it gets confused by something in the image, and can't get it right.

                                Whether Elements will be sufficient for final corrections in these cases I can't say - never used it.

                                 

                                I have the Nikon PC-E 24 mm, it's not the sharpest lens that Nikon made, but it gets the job done. It needs to be stopped down to f/11 - 16 to get (reasonably) sharp corners. Whenever I can, I use a Nikon 17-35 zoom. This is quite an old lens, but it's very sharp, and the best performer of all Nikon's zooms in that range.

                                I also have an old PC-Nikkor 35 mm, but it it's practically useless with digital cameras.

                                But with a 36 MP camera, you can crop an image shot with a 24 mm to 35 mm view, and still have a decent pixel count.

                                 

                                Some general advice - use the lowest ISO setting possible, a high ISO (like 1000) means noise and a generally lower quality image.

                                Also get a cable release, tripping the shutter by hand is not recommended, and it's awkward to use the self timer.

                                Test your lenses at various f/stops to find the sweet spot, (sharpest f/stop), and use this f/stop unless you need to stop down more for depth of field.

                                The sharpest f/stop is usually 2-3 stops down from fully open.

                                You might also find this site for lens testing useful - Welcome to Photozone!

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                  HoneyBadger78 Level 1

                                  I’ve retaken the shot from a different perspective, head on, using the arch as a frame, with my Nikkor 24-70mm lens (at 24mm). The issue with this angle is that it cuts off the room at the left windows.

                                   

                                  I attach the original as well as the one after making the lens adjustments in LR: “Enable Profile Corrections”, “Constrain Crop” and “Vertical”.

                                   

                                  _DSC5280-HDR.jpg

                                   

                                  At least with the below adjusted image, second time round, there isn’t much work required bar the horizontal lines both at the top and bottom.

                                   

                                  _DSC5280-HDR-2.jpg

                                  I always use the built in level, but it just never appears level in LR.

                                   

                                  Greatly appreciate your detailed responses, thank you.

                                  • 14. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Put your camera through the door and take a 3-shot panorama, and try the same thing from where you were, before, except the center shot being perpendicular to the wall with the door.

                                     

                                    If you have a panorama you can use other software, not Photoshop, to redefine the direction-of-view to make things perpendicular to the wall.  Photoshop doesn't have this capability.  I use AutoPanoGiga from www.kolor.com

                                     

                                    Watch the demo video and just before the end, you'll see how the viewpoint can be moved.  They're moving around in a Virtual-Reality 360-degree spherical panorama, but you can do something similar by changing the viewpoint.  If you want to shoot the three shots I've mentioned, above, and include them in a reply I can try working with them to show what I'm talking about:

                                    Kolor | Autopano - panorama software

                                    1 person found this helpful
                                    • 15. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                      trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      HoneyBadger78 wrote:

                                       

                                      I’ve retaken the shot from a different perspective, head on, using the arch as a frame, with my Nikkor 24-70mm lens (at 24mm). The issue with this angle is that it cuts off the room at the left windows.

                                      Try using the Sigma 10-20mm at the same location as in your original posted screenshot. You can do this hand-held, but it's easier using a tripod.

                                       

                                      Lower the camera to make the sides of the window frame (left) and door frame (right) both parallel to the camera's grid lines or LCD screen frame. You may need to get down on your knees to get the right camera height. If the right and left verticals are aligned then the horizontal will be aligned as well. You may need to rotate the camera to initially use a wall corner, window frame, or door frame for the alignment. Then carefully rotate the camera to compose the image being careful not to change the camera tilt. A tripod with a two levels built-in to the camera platform will help or you can buy one of the hot shoe levels, which is what I use.

                                       

                                      Two-Axis

                                      B&H Photo Video

                                       

                                      Three-Axis (works with camera rotated in landscape or portrait mode)

                                      B&H Photo Video

                                      1 person found this helpful
                                      • 16. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                        ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Starting with this new original, Photoshop also has something called Adaptive Wide Angle where you draw rectangles on the image and it warps it to make those as squared up as possible:

                                         

                                        What's left is to straighten:

                                        Warp:

                                         

                                        Correct some of the remaining distortion in the Camera Raw layer filter:

                                        Crop off the wobbly edges:

                                         

                                        Yielding this, which is probably not quite the right aspect ratio but the floor looks better:

                                        _DSC5199-HDR-3_Fix.jpg

                                        1 person found this helpful
                                        • 17. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                          Benjamin Root MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                          If you'd like to save a little money, you could look into Rokinon 24 mm Tilt-Shift. Do realize its drawbacks, though: Fstoppers Reviews The Rokinon 24mm f/3.5 Tilt-Shift Lens | Fstoppers

                                           

                                          That, with the Nikkor 16-35 mm f/4G and you'd have a pretty good start. Also, if you're happy with 24 MP and would like to save a bit more, the D750 works quite well for interior photography. It does have the anti-ailasing filter, so it isn't quite as sharp as the D810, but definitely don't underestimate its sharpness. Also, the D750's tilt screen is very helpful when you need to shoot at low or high angles. The built-in WiFi can be used with Snapbridge on a smart phone to fire the camera and review images - perfect if you need to use an off-camera flash to light certain areas.

                                           

                                          Of course there is much speculation that the D810's predecessor will have all these features and more.

                                          • 18. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                            HoneyBadger78 Level 1

                                            Thank you for passing on your experience with the 24mm. I’ve been doing the research and find it rather mixed. But I did think it woudl solve my issues… Perhaps not.

                                             

                                            I appreciate the sound of the 17-35mm and will look in to it further.

                                             

                                            I’m shocked at how inaccurate the D7100 built-in level is; it may as well not even be there.

                                             

                                            I always use a cable release with a tripod, and thank you all your other tips – the ISO I should have known… A lot more practise is required on my side, clearly.

                                            • 19. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                              Per Berntsen Adobe Community Professional

                                              The Nikon PC-E 24 isn't that bad, and you could also consider the Samyang/Rokinon lens suggested by Benjamin.

                                              From what I've seen, it's about the same optical quality as the Nikon. And a tilt-shift lens will "solve your issues" to a great extent, but there are situations when 24 mm isn't wide enough. (there might be a 19 mm tilt-shift lens coming at some time in the future - Nikon has filed a patent for it)

                                              The 17-35 is not made any longer, but you can get it on eBay for around 900 - 1200 dollars, there are even some unused ones, it seems.

                                              Another option is the Tamron 15-30, which seems to be an excellent lens.

                                              The Nikon 14-24 is also a great lens, but will set you back 1900 dollars.

                                              1 person found this helpful
                                              • 20. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                HoneyBadger78 wrote:

                                                 

                                                Thank you for passing on your experience with the 24mm. I’ve been doing the research and find it rather mixed. But I did think it woudl solve my issues… Perhaps not.

                                                Give my suggestion in reply #15 a try. If happy with the "leveled" image results using your Sigma 10-20mm you need look no further.

                                                 

                                                A 24mm shift lens is simply a lens with a larger coverage circle and ability to move the lens Up/Down Right/Left. If you have the ability to physically move the camera Up/Down and Left/Right a shift lens buys you nothing. In fact most shift lenses exhibit a drop-off in edge definition when shifted, so you may actually lose some detail.

                                                 

                                                HoneyBadger78 wrote:

                                                I’m shocked at how inaccurate the D7100 built-in level is; it may as well not even be there.

                                                I wondered about that myself. The hot shoe level I linked to is within <1° on my Canon 5D KII and more than accurate enough.

                                                1 person found this helpful
                                                • 21. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                                  HoneyBadger78 Level 1

                                                  I've finally gotten around to taking the 3 shots as you suggested above. I haven't done any lens corrections. Now, when I merge them together in LR the result is diabolical.

                                                   

                                                  _DSC5354-HDR.jpg

                                                  _DSC5358-HDR.jpg

                                                  _DSC5363-HDR.jpg

                                                  • 22. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                                    HoneyBadger78 Level 1

                                                    My friend has given me his D600 and I've tried it with the 24-70mm lens and found that I hardly needed to do any lens correction in LR, as below. But then that could have something to do with taking on all the tips from this forum, such as: lowering the angle, shooting straight etc.

                                                     

                                                    600_0105-HDR.jpg

                                                    I added the three images for stitching in my reply to "ssprengel" from a lowered angle, as recommended by yourself.

                                                    • 23. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                                      HoneyBadger78 Level 1

                                                      I have looked in to the Rokinon (thank you), and again the reviews are mixed. I’m now considering hiring both lens for a day and comparing which is best.

                                                       

                                                      My heart is set on the D810; however, as mentioned in my reply to “trshaner” a friend gave me his D600 today, which I will happily experiment with until I attain the D810. I’ve already seen that it works better with the 24-70mm lens than the D7100 does with the 24-70mm.

                                                      • 24. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                                        Benjamin Root MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                        Yes. renting lenses is a great way to find out if it will work for you. I'd recommend using them for at least a couple days in different situations so you can get a better idea. Also, the Tamron 15-30 f/2.8, recommended by Per, is a great quality lens.

                                                         

                                                        When you did the panos in LR, what perspective settings did you use?

                                                        • 25. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          HoneyBadger78 wrote:

                                                           

                                                          My friend has given me his D600 and I've tried it with the 24-70mm lens and found that I hardly needed to do any lens correction in LR, as below. But then that could have something to do with taking on all the tips from this forum, such as: lowering the angle, shooting straight etc.

                                                          Please let me clear up Focal length and Crop Factor. Your current Nikon D7100 is a 1.5 Crop Factor (DX) body. The D600 and D810 are 1.0 Crop Factor (FX) (full-frame) bodies .

                                                           

                                                          What is Crop Factor?

                                                           

                                                          So what does that mean?

                                                           

                                                          Sigma 10-20mm on Nikon D7100 = 15-30mm full-frame focal length equivalent

                                                          Nikon 24-70mm on D600 = 24-70mm


                                                          Your current Sigma 10-20mm when set to 16mm provides the exact same field of view as the Nikon 24-70mm on the D600 body when it is set to 24mm. They both will take the same exact picture!

                                                           

                                                          HoneyBadger78 wrote:

                                                           

                                                          I added the three images for stitching in my reply to "ssprengel" from a lowered angle, as recommended by yourself.

                                                          When shooting this panorama the camera needs to be level in both the vertical and horizontal planes. The camera location should also not be moved (i.e. fixed on a tripod). There is one more issue we don't need to worry about just yet, but you should be aware of it: Entrance Pupil Database - PanoTools.org Wiki The three images you shot have diverging verticals (camera pointed down slightly).

                                                           

                                                          A BETTER SOLUTION

                                                          I suggest (one-more-time) trying again with your Sigma 10-20mm set to 10mm (16mm effective full-frame) on the D7100 body. Place it on the tripod with legs lowered substantially. You'll need to position the center of the camera about three to four feet above the floor. Place a spirit level on top of the tripod before mounting the camera. If you don't have one I suggest buying one...any type. Check both the Right-Left and Front-Back level. Place the camera on the leveled tripod and move only the center column and base rotation to compose the picture. If you have any issues please post a screenshot. A think you'll be very pleased with the results.

                                                          1 person found this helpful
                                                          • 26. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                                            HoneyBadger78 Level 1

                                                            Here’s the final image here. What I’ve realised now is that LR 6 (which I have) doesn’t have the Boundary Warp slider setting as in CC, which would help; however, I not sure what to do about the extreme distortion on the left, first set of windows.

                                                             

                                                            For some reason it's not uploading my image, and I've just seen the response from trshaner, and shall attempt the shoot again using his recommendations.

                                                            • 27. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                                              Benjamin Root MVP & Adobe Community Professional
                                                              For some reason it's not uploading my image, and I've just seen the response from trshaner, and shall attempt the shoot again using his recommendations.

                                                              Be sure to use the camera icon in the forums to upload the image (some try by email, which doesn't work)

                                                              If you are, try refreshing the page and or restarting your browser. Also, the file size should be under 8.8 MB

                                                              • 28. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                                                HoneyBadger78 Level 1

                                                                I attempted retaking the photographs as per your suggestion, and still without success. My Manfrotto MT055CXPRO4 was level before I placed the Manfrotto 405 geared head on to the tripod and ensured the 2 main gauges were level before placing the camera on to the head, and after having to adjust it slightly I took the shots, checking that all were level. Even the camera’s live view level line was green and I didn't have to adjust it at all. 

                                                                 

                                                                _DSC5390.jpg

                                                                _DSC5391.jpg

                                                                _DSC5392.jpg

                                                                Perhaps I need someone to physically help me as I do not know what I am doing wrong. I can shoot the exterior as a panorama without a problem, so it seems as though the angles of a small room are the issue for me.

                                                                 

                                                                Thank you for all your greatly appreciated help; I’ve definitely learned a lot.

                                                                • 29. Re: Correct buildings and tilted images
                                                                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  The first shot parallel to the far wall and door entrance looks good except for the elongation effects in the objects close to the camera. If you want to do a three shot panorama set the lens to 16mm and rotate the camera to portrait mode. If you can't back up any further change your shooting location as shown below (and suggested by

                                                                   

                                                                  1 person found this helpful