10 Replies Latest reply on Feb 10, 2016 1:29 PM by Kevin Karr

    how use Heads {attachTo="head"} properly ?

    Kevin Karr Level 1

      I have a character of which I am trying to set up the rigging structure so that in the future I can add more head perspectives..


      When I use just the Regular "Head" Puppet and have all artwork below it, the Head functions properly and I can move head back and forth, etc.


      When I use the Heads {AttachTo="Head"}


      In illustrator layers I have the following Structure:




      Heads {AttachTo="Head"}


          (all artwork for eybrows etc below this}


      My problem is that the head is now not movable.


      I also have a fixed Chest object in place and I have tried using the "Warp independently" option.


      Also tried adding a Face Behaviour to  "+Front", "Heads" Layer with no effect.


      I must point out that Eyes, mouth and eye brows move properly but the head does not move or tilt or scale.


      What am I missing here ?



        • 1. Re: how use Heads {AttackTo="head"} properly ?
          CoSA_DaveS Adobe Employee

          A screenshot of your Illustrator layers panel showing the hierarchy would help. BTW, we're working on making the attachment system easier to use.


          Note that "attachTo" for a layer can only refer to handles in the parent of that layer. But where the handles are created varies based on layers being groups or not. If you select a layer in the puppet panel, you'll see all the handles that are defined at that layer.


          You can also use the Attach To popup in the layer's properties panel. It will list all the valid handles to attach to.


          The handle called "Head" is the one that the Face behavior will move around.

          • 2. Re: how use Heads {AttackTo="head"} properly ?
            Kevin Karr Level 1

            Okay so since I wrote this, I changed my structure back to regular Head structure to do more testing for the performance issue I was working on as well as more animating.


            I took a snapshot of my template character structure I created (no artwork in it) to show you what I was trying to set up.

            Layers Panel.jpg


            I've had quite a time understanding the structure properly and its effect from beginning, so this multiple heads thing is new to me and threw me off when I first tried it.


            It might be nice if you could write out or post a pic of what a proper structure for a multiple direction head that can move tilt, etc.. ?


            I'm probably missing something either in the rigging or structure. I did end up getting a second Face Modifier when I added a  behaviour but Character animator was so screwed up do it not performing well it didn't move even when armed...


            Also I would be looking on how to do this for multiple parts of the body, like legs, chest. Also Changing different clothing ?


            Perhaps once I get my system working better I can attempt this and be 100% certain things are working properly.


            Until then, Appreciate any thoughts on structure and rigging ?

            • 3. Re: how use Heads {AttackTo="head"} properly ?
              CoSA_DaveS Adobe Employee

              Note that the "A" in AttachTo should be lower case.


              Also, when using attachTo, you'll also want to enable that group to be Warp Independently, so add a "+" to the front of the name, like this: +Heads {attachTo="Head"}


              This text syntax is just a short-term solution. You'll find experimenting with this much easier in the puppet & properties panel. There's a checkbox for Warp Independently for the selected layer, and a popup for which handle it should attach to.


              The only thing you _need_ to do in PS / AI (if you want the origin of a group to be somewhere other than its center) is specify the Origin points in a group. That will be editable in the puppet panel in Preview 4 when it comes out.


              For Head Turner to work on your puppet (a behavior you can apply to automatically turn the puppet's head when you turn yours), you'll want to use these names for the different views:



                   +Right Quarter

                   +Left Quarter

                   +Right Profile

                   +Left Profile

              • 4. Re: how use Heads {AttackTo="head"} properly ?
                Kevin Karr Level 1

                Good to know about naming, okay so a few questions then. Am I not able to attach a neck object that moves with the head when I use this method then ?


                All my other characters I've not used the +warp independently for head  because I've wanted the neck to move with the head ? Is this possible ?


                Also, do I have to add individual behaviours for Face to each Head object ? IE Face behaviour ?


                Also, once we get the performance issues worked out for the other thread, I will give this a try.

                • 5. Re: how use Heads {AttackTo="head"} properly ?
                  CoSA_DaveS Adobe Employee

                  You don't _have to_ use the "+" -- if you don't, that group will just warp with its parent group. But that also means "attachTo" will be ignored. Sounds like that's what you want (no "+", no attach to).


                  In Preview 3, you do have to apply Face & Lip Sync to each head object (assuming you want facial animation & lip sync on each). Though at least one Face behavior needs to be at or above the Head handle level, to get the head to move.


                  In the yet to be released Preview 4, a single Face & Lip Sync at the root will take care of all views' faces & mouths. For anyone wanting access to this version now, message me directly with your Adobe ID email address.

                  • 6. Re: how use Heads {AttackTo="head"} properly ?
                    Kevin Karr Level 1

                    What I want is for the head to move with the neck and rest of the body but still be able to change heads (that also move with neck) so that the character appears seamless when changing perspectives.


                    From what your telling me, this can't be done with the attachTo function which means, it won't work for what I had in mind. Perhaps another Request feature, the ability to have changing artwork and rigging to match perspective. attachTo that is special for Faces or Body parts so that perspective changes can be aligned and customized.

                    • 7. Re: how use Heads {AttackTo="head"} properly ?
                      CoSA_DaveS Adobe Employee

                      I'm not following exactly, but it sounds like what you want is possible. Does "Wendigo" (snow creature) in the Start Here! project operate the way you want?

                      • 8. Re: how use Heads {AttackTo="head"} properly ?
                        Kevin Karr Level 1

                        Wendigo is the creature I first looked at for multiple heads however he doesn't have a neck that moves with the head like a normal person does when they move their head. That character has a floating head. The head turning perspective yes, I want that but I also want it so that you can attach the rest of the body so that the body moves or distorts a little to give the illusion the whole person is moving. a bones, structure with replaceable different heads (triggered by a key on the keyboard) is really what I am talking about.


                        From what you said, the head has to be warped independently... if you do that, the neck doesn't move with the head, the head kind of floats there not really attached to the body. This is more true in characters that do not have a complete facial structure too ! For example an animal without total facial expression, has a head but when you choose move independently, the head moves but the neck doesn't attach even if the head is on top of the neck layer. Sometimes its necessary to not have the neck layer a sublayer of the head object as well.


                        In a real 3D character for example you can warp the head independently but the body can also warp with the head but by varying amounts. For example, if you move your head physically how much does your neck actually move in relation ? Answer depends on how far you move your head, but generally its a different tolerance then say, your chest or legs when you move your head which may not even move at all.


                        Normally this isn't a problem with a character in character animator when you don't choose move independently for the face/head, however as you said, the AttachTo doesn't work with multiple perspective shots or multiple heads.


                        What I want is to combine or have the ability to have the best of both worlds, multiple perspective heads (some other method then attachTo ?), localized tolerances of other body parts moving with the head like the neck, but necessarily the feet, legs etc.. and still be able to move the head around and have it warp independently. I don't know if Sticks can operate this way or a Bones structure is needed to differentiate ?


                        Let me know if this makes sense to you now or I can try to explain further.

                        • 9. Re: how use Heads {AttackTo="head"} properly ?
                          alphawolf78 Level 1

                          Hey Kevin,


                          I understand what you are saying, and I have a potential solution you could try. You could actually build the neck into your head views, from both front, quarter, and side so each time you switch your neck would change with the head. So place the neck behind the face/head, and then create different neck "poses" for each of your head turns. I just tested it and it works great.


                          Let me know if that works for you.



                          Dave Wolf

                          • 10. Re: how use Heads {AttackTo="head"} properly ?
                            Kevin Karr Level 1

                            Does the neck then go along with any body movements as well though ? My fear is that the neck and head then end up moving quite weird in certain circumstances..like they are both floating or not really attached to the main body either...I had this problem on my one animal characters. He had a chain around the neck which had to be moving independently. If I were to have the neck attached to the Head, I wouldn't have been able to warp the chain independently but still move with the body in directions for example. Also for things like if you have the Chest and the Breathing behaviour on. I've noticed some abnormalities when using that as well.


                            I will however try this on the next character or animal I create that do not have anything on top of their neck ! Perhaps this is a case for using the attachTo method... ?