That is more of an expected behaviour since you choose "Edit Original" which in itself means that it is going to take the original PSD in Photoshop and would not retain the Lightroom adjustments done to it.
If you want the Lightroom adjustments to be retained, you should choose "Edit with Lightroom Adjustments".
Thank you - you're right of course.
I guess my question was more about how this behaviour seems to have changed since I updated the programs.
Just so I understand, am I correct in my understanding that Lightroom takes an image file (whether a RAW or PSD file) and "stores" the changes that have been made to it in lightroom as a kind of "metadata", without changing the underlying file itself? If so, then when externally editing a PSD, I would have thought I was actually modifying the underlying file, without in any way modifying or discarding the changes made to the image in LR. Thus, returning the changed PSD to Lightroom should result in the same "metadata" changes that had applied to the PSD to be applied equally to the newly modified PSD file.
This has been my experience with LR/PS to date - it's only in the last few months since I updated LR that I've noticed the change in this behaviour, and was wondering whether there was a setting that I could change to restore the old behaviour, or whether this is a hard wired change that I can't undo.
Many thanks for your time,
That has never changed. If you select to Edit Original, with a TIF/PSD, it send the Original TIF/PSD File (Not the Real Original file the TIF or PSD was created from) to PS without the current LR edits you had done.
Yes that is correct. It does it for RAW files, JPGs, TIF and PSD files. LR Never changes the Actual file. It only Displays the edits to the files while you are viewing that file in LR. That same file, no matter what format it is in, viewed outside of LR will not included any edits you did in LR. The exception to that is if you open RAW or JPG files edited in LR in Adobe Camera RAW. ACR can read the LR edits as they are basically the same system.
Thanks - what you've said matches my understanding. That's why I'm confused - let me make my puzzlement clearer. Here's how things seem to be working currently:
1) I have a PSD file in Lightroom.
2) I make some changes to the PSD file in lightroom. These changes are saved in the LR catalog. The underlying PSD file is unchanged by any edits made in Lightroom.
3) I edit the PSD file in PS, which causes the underlying file to change, but shouldn't affect the LR catalog, and the LR changes to the file which I made earlier.
4) The same PSD, having now been changed in PS is re-opened in LR, where apparently LR has "forgotten" what changes had been made to this very file, and shows it to me the way it looked in PS.
This is definitely not how it used to be - I used to be able to take a PSD file out to PS, edit it, and bring it back to LR, where LR would have retained information pertaining to the changes I'd made INSIDE lightroom,
It doesn't make sense to me that editing a PSD outside lightroom should cause lightroom to "forget" the lightroom edits associated with that file.
Sorry am I just being slow here?
Thank you all for taking the time to help out.
Wow this is an actual bug. The behavior changed in the last version. Lightroom SHOULD reapply the edits to the changed original after you edit the original in Photoshop but it stopped doing that and somehow resets the edits. That is really really bad and will lead to real dataloss. You can get your edits back by in Develop going to the history section and setting it to the entry before the edit in Photoshop. This will reapply all the previous edits and retain the Photoshop edits. Strange bug! Lightroom has never behaved like this and has always worked correctly in this case using "edit original". It should not show you the Lightroom edits in Photoshop, but it should apply the edits again in Lightroom after you save. Please go to feedback.photoshop.com and report this as a bug.
Thanks Jao vdL,
I'll do that. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed the change in behaviour.
I just tried opening an LR Edited PSD through Finder, altering it in PS and then viewing it in LR, and found that this time while the PSD had changed to reflect the changes I'd just made to it in PS, the LR edits were also retained - so there must be some sort of bug that causes any lightroom edits to the PSD to be abandoned as soon as the original PSD is opened in photoshop.
I had not noticed it yet. I tested after I read your post. I use this workflow quite often with scanned images from film. I might notice some dust or damage after I have already done lots of edits in Lightroom and then do an edit original to remove the problem dust on the original file and then return to Lightroom. Now suddenly it resets all the develop settings. Clearly a major bug.
Editing outside of LR is not what you said in your original post. Or not how I read it or what I thought you were talking about.
This is something I never do so I have no idea what would happen. As Jao pointed out is seems to be a BUG or Adobe is screwing with us again. Maybe Adobe feels if you leave LR and edit an image directly in PS, instead of Sending that image to PS from inside LR, you don't want to retain the edits you did to it in LR so they are canceled out.
When I open the PSD through finder, edit in PS, save and close, LR shows me the modified PSD with all LR edits to the PSD still retained.
When I open the PSD in Photoshop through LR (i.e. cmd+E > "Edit Original"), when I save and close, LR "forgets" the LR edits I'd made to the PSD before sending it to Photoshop.
This latter behaviour is what appears to have changed with the latest update.
Hope that clarifies?
I say again that is not a BUG. You are asking LR to Send the Original file to PS Excluding any LR edits you did since the PSD was imported into LR.
If you select Edit With LR Adjustments (Edits) then the current edits you did would be preserved.
All is as it should be, as far as I can tell.
See this problem report in the official Adobe feedback forum: Edit Original loses ALL LR adjustments on return to LightRoom from PS (both CC) | Photoshop Family Customer Community. (Vineet's report is at the end.) In the 9 months since the original bug report, no one from Adobe has confirmed that they view it as a bug.
I agree - I'm asking LR to send the original file to PS, and the original file should not have any LR edits on it when it appears in PS - as these LR edits exist only in the LR catalog.
But why should the LR catalog "forget" these edits when the same PSD is viewed in LR again after the PSD is edited in PS? I didn't require, or authorise any changes to the LR catalog, I simply opened the underlying file in PS and made some changes, in PS, before saving the file, with the same name, in the same location. LR should apply the same LR edits to the new file.
What happens now is exactly the same as if I were to hit "Reset" in the develop module before cmd+E to take the PSD to Photoshop. Except this seems to happen automatically, without my asking for it.
And anyway, while what "should" happen is debatable, and you may well have a point when you say that the current situation is as it should be, this isn't at issue here so much as what used to happen, and what's been happening since the update - the behaviour has definitely changed. The question is whether this is a bug, an optional behaviour, or a hard-coded change in the way PS behaves...
Thanks for your time
Thank you for merging the two discussion threads. I looked for similar problems but didn't find any so posted my own.
Even if it isn't a "bug" it'd be nice if someone from Adobe could at least acknowledge that this behaviour has changed, and perhaps consider restoring the behaviour or making it optional...
Hope for something from Adobe before long.
If the before behavior was to included recent LR edits to a PSD file when selecting Edit Original when sending a PSD/TIF file to PS from LR then that was a BUG.
Anytime you select the option to Edit the Original file No LR edits should be included.
If you are talking about edits you did to a RAW or JPG file then sending that file to PS for further edits the resulting file is a PSD or TIF and the original LR edits are Burned In to that TIF/PSD. PS creates a New file with the LR edits applied and those previous edits don't show up in LR anymore.
Shootist. This is absolutely a bug that was introduced with 2015.4. Lightroom NEVER behaved that way and it never was intended to behave this way. What is supposed to happen when you do edit original is that the original file is opened in Photoshop (without any edits visible). Then when you save the file, Lightroom reads it in and applies the settings it had already done to it. This is what it means to edit the original. The Lightroom edits should (and always have) be retained and the result should be identical to finding the original in the finder/explorer and manually opening it in Photoshop. Right now, Lightroom resets the develop settings after you save in Photoshop. That is not right and is a loss of functionality. It never has done this and it was always clearly stated that it would retain the develop settings but that you wouldn't see them in Photoshop. I don't think this was intentionally changed as many tutorials show this use case and how it works. It is also the only way to retain the layers in the photoshop file and to retain the Lightroom edits.
Edit: saw I had a Lightroom where it should say Photoshop.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
I just opened LR 5, went to an older image from 2011 that I had originally edited in LR then sent to PS CS4 or 5 (don't remember which version of PS I was using in 2011) and did edits on then save that file with a TIF extension, as per my setting in the External Editor section of LR Preferences.
In LR 5 I Re-Edited that TIF by changing the White balance from As Shot to Auto, went to the Detail tab and boosted the sharpening, Upped the Radius and Detail sliders slightly and applied some Masking.
I then Right Clicked and selected Edit In and then PS CC 2015. When the Dialog box popped up I selected to Edit Original. Once the image was opened in PS I applied a Curves layer then when to File>Save to save the PS edit to the Original file name.
Closed down PS and looked at the image back in LR. All the the edits I had just done in LR 5 were gone. Image was back to As Shot in the WB section of the basic panel, the Sharpening was back to Zero and all other parts of the Detail panel were grayed out. Which is what you get when the Amount slider is at Zero.
All of this is as I would expect it to be. You are asking LR to open the ORIGINAL file in PS so how on earth can it retain the LR edits you just did.
So if LR CC/6, before the 6.4 update, was Re-Applying recent LR edits to a PSD or TIF file that got sent to PS As the Original image that was a BUG.
Once returned to LR it should NOT Re-Apply those recent LR edits. Because you specifically asked LR Not To by selecting Edit Original.
I will do another test in LR 5 and 6 on a DNG file first editing in LR, sending that DNG to PS CC 2015, saving it as a PSD (changing my setting in LR), then Re-editing in LR and back to PS with Edit Original for a minor edit and then using Ctrl + s to save to the original file name and back to LR. But I will bet my bottom dollar the second round of LR edits are Wiped Out. Which in my option is the way it is supposed to work. Unless you Bake In the LR edits by selecting Edit a copy with LR adjustment those recent edits should be gone for all time.
Just did another edit in LR5.
Edit DNG, Send to PS, Edit In>PS CC 2015 (No dialog pop up), Edit in PS and Ctrl + s to save as a PSD (changed my setting in LR).
Back in LR I Re-Edited that PSD file to Auto WB and other minor edits.
Right click Edit In>PS CC 2015 and selected Edit Original from the dialog window. Once in PS I applied a curves layer and Ctrl + s. Closed PS and back to LR. All the the previous, recent/last, edits I had done in LR were gone but they were still listed in the history panel of the LR develop module. Once I clicked on the top most history entry, the last one I did before sending that PSD back to PS, all of them now showed up and were applied.
So if LR CC/6, prior to the .4 update, was Re-applying those LR edits all by itself then that was the BUG. It shouldn't be because you specifically ask LR to Edit the Original file, not one with the most recent LR edits included, and when it got back to LR unless you specifically ask LR to Re-Apply the most recent LR edits by clicking on the top history entry LR is doing exactly what you ask it to do. If it did anything else that was the BUG and Adobe fixed it with the .4 update.
I've been using LR since 1.0 and the Edit in Photoshop behavior in LR 5.7.1 is as Jao vdL describes. Please see my comments here:
I also tested LR 5.7.1 and it also preserves the prior LR edits after 'Edit Original' on my Windows 7 system. The issue appears to be with Mac OS X platforms and LR 2015.4. I suggest you try resetting your LR 5 Preferences file.
shootist, I strongly disagree. I just tested in LR 5.7 and it behaves correctly. The LR edits are retained after returning to Lightroom when doing a "edit original". I don't understand why you see different behavior as it has always worked like this for me. In fact part of my workflow for certain kinds of files relies on this. This is exactly as it should work. Lightroom should NOT discard the Lightroom edits when you "edit original". They shouldn't be visible in Photoshop as that flattens the psd/tiff file but it should not forget the edits. This is the only way that you can work with layered photoshop files AND apply Lightroom edits to the end result and still be able to go back and edit in the layers. That this behavior changed is clearly a bug.
To illustrate: this is what happens in LR 5:
Original image in Lightroom:
Edit in Photoshop with some simple curves adjustment layer. I messed with the color on purpose so you could see what happens.
Back in Lightroom I mess with the light balance and apply a crop and I go for edit in Photoshop and select "edit original". Note that it says Lightroom edits will not be visible. Not that they will be lost. The same message is used in LR CC 2015.4.
In photoshop you get the same file as previously opened (of course!) without the crop and white balance adjustment but the adjustment layer is intact and editable. So I mess some more with the curves to make it more contrasty:
Then back in Lightroom after saving in Photoshop:
The crop is retained and the white balance change is retained while you did not see it in Photoshop. This is exactly what I expect and want to happen as this is the only way your adjustment layers in Photoshop get preserved and stay editable and your Lightroom edits remain. In the latest Lightroom CC, the last step - returning to Lightroom - resets the development settings except if you quit out of Lightroom before saving the file from Photoshop.
I can understand why you might have philosophical differences and would believe "edit original" should throw away all the Lightroom edits but the fact is that Lightroom has always done it this way and the change is not welcome (and likely unintended) as it breaks several different workflows. One is working with scanned images and doing some more cleanup of the scans after you've already done edits in Lightroom but don't want to create another giant tiff file as the removal of that little scratch is not worth that much AND you want to retain the non-destructive edits you did in Lightroom. 2 is working with layered files back and forth between Lightroom and Photoshop. One place I do this a lot is focus stacked images. I often do the stacking in Photoshop and then return to Lightroom to do tonal and other edits. Sometimes I discover that Photoshop made a bad decision in the focus stacking (it's far from perfect unfortunately) and I return to Photoshop using edit original and paint the layer masks to make the correct image the top image showing up. I do not want the develop settings getting reset in Lightroom after this but I don't need to see the Lightroom edits while in Photoshop! For the time being I can simply step the development settings one step back to get them back or remember to quit out of Lightroom when I do this but it is still a workflow interruption and a potential for loss of work.
Then to all I Agree to Disagree. In my opinion any edits you do to a PSD/TIF file in LR then send that image to PS with the Edit Original option should not have those last LR edits applied automatically when it returns to LR.
And by the way they are still in the history section of LR so if you want to Re-apply them all you have to do is select, click, the top most history entry.
I never flattened the image. I left the Curves adjustment as a separate layer. Maybe if you flatten the images before the last save in PS LR will Auto Apply those last edits. Not realizing you had Re-edited the image in PS.
Thanks to all for the rousing discussion.
OK, I'll play the devil's advocate. How do you "round-trip" a TIFF inside LR to make changes in PS without applying or losing your current LR adjustments? Sounds like something that would be useful don't you think?
Seriously, if your 'Edit Original' is coming back with LR 5 edits removed you are either renaming the file in PS or your LR 5 Preferences file is corrupted. Also, if you're on a Mac we already know this is a bug in LR CC 2015.4. How to reset your LR 5 Preferences file:
Just did another test in LR 5.7.1
Edit a DNG in LR. Send that DNG to PS, LR edits included no dialog box. In PS sharpen and save which makes a PSD file. That file is stacked with the original in LR. Re-edit in LR, wild edit, WB way off so it shows along with some other stuff. Then right click and Edit in PS. Dialog popup edit original. In PS I apply a curve layer, wild curve, Ctrl + s to save. Flatten image to include the curve layer into the file and another Ctrl + s to save. Back in LR the second edit of WB and other stuff is removed (My opinion is that is the way it should be) but all those recent LR edits are in the history area. Select the top most, last, LR adjustment and they all come back (Again that is the way I think it should work).
If you want the second round of LR edits saved to a PSD or TIF file you send to PS then you should select Edit a Copy with LR Adjustment.
And I don't think your second round of LR edits should be Auto Applied after you have sent that PSD/TIF back to PS with the Edit Original ticked.
Just the way I see it.
If you want to include those second round of LR edits with that Edit Original ticked all you have to do is click the history to restore.
How do you round trip a TIFF inside LR to make changes in PS without applying or losing your current adjustments?
You select Edit original. When back in LR you click the history to Re-Apply. But in the end if you don't then Export that image all the applied/Re-applied edits aren't really in the image. They are stored in the catalog file and only displayed when Viewing the image in LR. Open that image directly in PS and you won't see that second or third round of LR edits.
On Win 10, LR 6.4 works for me exactly the way Jao and Todd say it should. This is also how it has always worked.
Here's what Victoria Bampton (The Lightroom Queen) says in her Missing FAQ Book:
Not a bug. Not even a debatable design decision. It works just the way it ought to, to make round trips to PS work nicely.
Well it doesn't work like that on my system with either LR 5.7.1 or 2015.4.
Don't remember if I have LR 3 or 4 installed on my old headless computer but I'll fire it up and check. Well that computer is dead.
Well it doesn't work like that on my system with either LR 5.7.1 or 2015.4.
If you're on a Mac this is a known issue with LR 2015.4. LR 5.7.1 does not have the issue! I suggest one-more-time that you try resetting your LR 5.7.1 Preferences file. You can rename the current file by adding a .OLD extension to the file name. That way you can easily restore the current Preferences file with nothing else to worry about!
Full details here:
Thanks but no need. Vary rarely use LR 5 if at all. Just doing test with it for this thread. Not sure why I leave it on my systems.
If you're on a Mac you can safely ignore the issue since it is a bug with LR CC 2015.4.
If you're on a Windows system and LR CC 2015.4 exhibits the behavior you describe (returned Edit in PS file loses LR edits) I suggest you apply a LR Preferences reset to that installation!
Shootist. Did you do the "edit original" from Library or Develop? Often when you were in Develop in 5.7.1, it is very sluggish in noticing you saved the file in Photoshop and it will stay in its original state until you go to Library or you would need to wait for a long time. I am pretty sure you are a convinced Windows user from comments you've made in other threads about how terrible Apple is, so your 2015.4 installation should behave normally (i.e. edit original does not delete the Lightroom edits). If it isn't there is a problem with your installation as Todd explains. I might be misremembering and you might be a Mac user.
I've used both types of systems. I'm not that concerned with all of this as this is something I wouldn't normally do. I just found this thread interesting and tested to see how my systems reacted.
Thanks for your concern but I don't see a problem in the way it works on my systems.
And you are right I will never buy another Apple product.
Could someone with the issue try resetting their LR CC 2015.4 Preferences file and see if that restores the 'Edit In Photoshop' > 'Edit Original' proper operation (i.e LR edits retained)? Just rename the current file with a .OLD extension, which will allow restoring it if the issue persists. You need to do this with LR closed:
It's the first step to ruling out installation issues as the cause.
just tested and resetting the preferences does not restore the correct behavior. It still loses the Lightroom edits. I also found a person on windows that has the issue: LR CC2015.4 V6.1 - Lightroom edits not being retained after editing PSD or TIFF in Photoshop | Photoshop Family Customer…
Wonder why some windows users get the correct behavior (Lightroom edits retained after returning to Lightroom) but not others.
Thanks Jao. Not sure what's happening other than LR thinks the existing Edit In Photoshop file is a "new file" when it is round-tripped. Try resetting your PS Preferences file:
Adobe Photoshop CC 2015 Prefs.psp
Users/[user name]/Library/Preferences/Adobe Photoshop CC 2015 Settings
Adobe Photoshop CC 2015 Prefs.psp
Users/[user name]/AppData/Roaming/Adobe/Adobe Photoshop CC 2015/Adobe Photoshop CC 2015 Settings
I did. It makes no difference.
I think I know what's different with my LR setup and what's causing the problem. I don't have 'Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, PNG, and PSD files' checked in my Catalog Settings? Do you?
I just tested this with 'Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, PNG, and PSD files' checked. Using "manual" 'Save Metadata to file' ('Automatically write changes into XMP' not checked) I lose my LR edits when round-tripping if I haven't updated the metadata with the latest Develop edits. LR looks at the returned PS 'Edit Original' file and reads the XMP edits instead of the Catalog edits. Even when using 'Automatically write changes into XMP' there mat be a delay in LR updating the file metadata with the latest LR edits.
If I make new edits in LR to the 'Edit in PS' TIFF and then try to do another Edit in PS> Edit Original I get the following below message. If I choose 'Overwrite Settings' the TIFF opens in PS without any LR settings as expected. When the file is saved in PS and returned to LR the LR edits are applied!
If you're not seeing the below message check ' Reset all warning dialogs' in LR Preferences > General tab. It should be grayed-out as below when all warnings are enabled.
Holy wow! That worked! I unchecked "Include Develop Settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, PNG, and PSD files", and this solved the issue - it led to LR develop settings executed on PSD files being preserved as I sent a psd into photoshop and brought it back again.
So it's not a bug, it's a setting controlled behaviour - that's exactly the answer I was after - thank you trshaner!
Many thanks all!
you're a genius. That fixes it. Of course that setting is the default and Lightroom really shouldn't be reading the develop settings from file when you have that setting checked and you do a "edit original". I also must have gotten sick of the metadata changed message as it comes up all the time even if nothing changes to the file and dismissed it once and for all.
Awesome - that's a great find! You should work for Adobe! Just curious, what led you to that specific checkbox in the Catalog Settings?
I think there's still a basic issue with 'Edit Original.'
If you have 'Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, PNG, and PSD files' checked and 'Save' (CTRL + S) the metadata the TIFF's XMP-crs Camera Raw Namespace metadata contains the LR Develop settings. If you choose 'Edit Original' the TIFF opens in PS without the XMP-crs fields, which is why the returned TIFF "loses" the LR edits.
The easiest solution for now is to NOT check the Catalog Settings> Metadata panel option for 'Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, PNG, and PSD files.' Alternatively, you can create a Virtual Copy of the TIFF with LR settings and then Sync the Virtual Copy with the original TIFF to restore the LR Develop settings. This will allow you to use 'Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, PNG, and PSD files.'
It could be argued that 'Edit Original' means without the LR settings in XMP metadata, but the original file could have just as easily been created using ACR and contain its camera raw data in the XMP-crs fields. At the very least it begs an option in LR to retain the XMP-crs metadata when using 'Edit in Photoshop' > 'Edit Original.'