23 Replies Latest reply on Feb 14, 2016 10:59 AM by jesterdev4444

    1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?

    jesterdev4444 Level 1

      This does not seem right to me, and it's causing me all sorts of issues when I upload my book for proofing. Below I have the

      bleed set to .125" (1/8") - But that is a .25" white boarder around my image. I know because I put it there in Photoshop just

      to test this out.


      So every time I upload my book for proofing I get bleed errors. The image has to bleed .125" over the trim line, but it's actually

      extending .25" (White boarder). So what am I doing wrong?

       

      Been at this for weeks now. I could really use the help.

       

       

       

       

       

      bleed.jpg

        • 1. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
          SJRiegel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          If your image needs to bleed off all four sides of the page, then the image size (in inches) needs to be 8.5 x 6.25 in order to meet the bleed requirements.

          • 2. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
            jesterdev4444 Level 1

            The image is sized to meet the page requirements. The issue is that it bleed needs to be .125". When I insert the image it extends to what InDesign says is .125, but it's actually .25.

            If it was correct on the page, it should bleed past the .125 bleed mark, but it does't.

             

            The frame around my image is .25", so I'm thinking I'm doing something wrong. 

            • 3. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
              Migintosh Level 4

              It looks like your screen mode is set to Preview. Can you set it to Normal and post another screen shot? It should look something like this (but with content, as opposed to my blank document that I made for this screen shot):

              Screen Shot 2016-02-10 at 5.17.24 PM.png

              • 4. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                jesterdev4444 Level 1

                It's set to normal mode, as far as I can tell. Still new with Indesign. But here are two more screen shots, both showing what Photoshop considers .25" and .125"

                both taken from InDesign. They are a bit larger. I put in some guides to help.

                 

                Thanks for taking a look! Driving me crazy.
                One.jpgtwo.png

                • 5. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                  Migintosh Level 4

                  A few things to check:

                  • What is the physical size of the Photoshop document? (In Photoshop, go to Image>Image Size, and if the measurements are set to something other than inches, change to inches so that we can compare apples to apples.)

                  Screen Shot 2016-02-10 at 6.43.33 PM.png

                  • What is the physical size of the image frame in InDesign (click on the frame with the black Select tool and see in the Width and Height fields at the top of the screen)

                  Screen Shot 2016-02-10 at 6.45.29 PM.png

                  In the top image, the frame is created to fit the size of the clipping path from the Photoshop file (3.1737" x 2.2397").

                  Screen Shot 2016-02-10 at 6.45.34 PM.png

                  In the lower image, the frame is set to fit the size of the entire Photoshop document (4" x 3").

                   

                  • What are the coordinates of the image within the image frame. Double-click on the image with the black Selection tool and the selection will change from the frame to the image within the frame. If the image is not set to 0 x 0, then it has moved within the frame, so you can't rely on placement of the frame to tell you the placement of the image.

                  Screen Shot 2016-02-10 at 6.46.49 PM.png

                  Here, I have moved the image within the frame up and to the left, so the X and Y coordinates read -.78" and -.57"

                   

                  ALSO: I should have said this first, but have you changed the size of the image after you placed it in InDesign? You can tell what the scaling is when you are viewing the selection, but no matter how much or how many times you scale an image up or down, it will always read 100% if you have the frame selected, so you need to select the content to see the actual scaling.

                  • 6. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                    Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant
                    1. If you have a bleed your backgrounds and images have to exceed up to the bleed. Your image ends on the pages edge, not on the bleed box as it should. You have to extend the frame of this image to the bleed box and scale the image so that it will fill this frame. Take care that nothing important is there on the image outside or close to the page edge as it will be cut away.
                    2. Photoshop is program to proof any PDF in any kind of way. It will not provide you with any useful information. The very only program to check PDFs is Adobe Acrobat Pro, nothing else. Any information you get from opening a PDF in Photoshop is wrong as it will create or adjust Photoshop by itself.
                    • 7. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      ID to Photoshop is NEVER going to be apples to apples. In Photoshop, pixels remain constant, but the "size' of a pixel in inches or millimeters is going to be entirely dependent on the resolution assigned to the image. What you set as .125 at 300 ppi will become .25 at 150 ppi.

                       

                      In InDesign, your ruler dimensions remain constant, but you can scale your image (and inversely change the effective resolution).

                      • 8. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                        SJRiegel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Jester:

                        This discussion seems to be going around in circles, so I'd like to go back and clarify what result your are looking for. 

                         

                        Your mention of the 1/2" border makes me think you are going for the one on the left (first), with a .125" white border on the document.

                        Since you are not getting that, it seems like the file must be placed at less than 100% in InDesign, and must be the source of your dimension differences.

                         

                        --If that is what you want, you don't need to add white in Photoshop; the printed image doesn't touch the edge, so no image bleed is needed.

                        -- When your printer talks about the image bleeding .125 off the page, the second one is what is wanted: any image that touches the edge needs to run over enough to allow for less-than-precise cutting.

                         

                        Screenshot 2016-02-11 09.29.27.png Screenshot 2016-02-11 09.28.09.png

                        • 9. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                          jesterdev4444 Level 1

                          This book is being uploaded to Createspace, I've never done this before I was just sent the book and as always I jump in and figure it out. Originally there was no boarder, it was a suggestion from someone else who had similar issues. When I run the book through the interior reviewer, there are no issues with bleed at all. After, there is a "File Review" that keeps giving me this error:

                           

                          "The images in the interior file extend to the edge(s) of the page. Full-bleed images should extend at least 0.125" beyond the book's trim line on the top"

                          And

                          "The interior doesn't have sufficient outside margins for printing, which could result in content being trimmed when printed. The outside, top, and bottom margin requirements are 0.25" for non-bleed interiors or 0.375" for bleed interiors."

                           

                          The book size is: 8.25 x 6

                          Clicking on the image shows the offset to be -0.125 for both X and Y - Image size is 8.625 x 6.25. I've verified that everything is set to inches in both Photoshop and Indesign.

                           

                          Here is a full screen capture, maybe it will help.


                          screen1.jpg

                           

                          The image on the next page has a transparent .125" (done in PS) frame, that was my last failed attempt.

                          screen2.jpg


                          Margins are set properly as far as I know. One part of the site says 0.375 for the inside another says .5. I don't get any complaints from the interior reviewer, so I figured this is correct.

                           

                          Thanks so much for all the help, by the way. I really appreciate it. This book was due last week.

                          • 10. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                            jesterdev4444 Level 1

                            I guess I cannot edit my post. Meant to upload the margins, not the Document setup on that second image:

                             

                            screen2.jpg

                            • 11. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                              SJRiegel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Your bleed area seems to be filled with a neutral gray. It needs to be filled with is an extension of your image.

                              "The images in the interior file extend to the edge(s) of the page. Full-bleed images should extend at least 0.125" beyond the book's trim line on the top"

                              bleed.png

                               

                              According to the specs you posted above, your margins should be .375", since this is a full-bleed image.

                              "The interior doesn't have sufficient outside margins for printing, which could result in content being trimmed when printed. The outside, top, and bottom margin requirements are 0.25" for non-bleed interiors or 0.375" for bleed interiors."


                              • 12. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Can you share the spread you are showing in your captures along with the Photoshop file via Dropbox. It might be easier for others to demo the correct bleed setup.

                                 

                                It also looks from your capture that you are extending the left page image across the trim onto the right page by .25". It needs to stop at the trim unless you plan on it being visible on the right page.

                                • 13. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                                  jesterdev4444 Level 1

                                  SJRiegel wrote:

                                   

                                  According to the specs you posted above, your margins should be .375", since this is a full-bleed image.

                                  "The interior doesn't have sufficient outside margins for printing, which could result in content being trimmed when printed. The outside, top, and bottom margin requirements are 0.25" for non-bleed interiors or 0.375" for bleed interiors."



                                  Holy crap, thanks so much for the help. I uploaded another version with the 0.375 margins and it worked. That place is so confusing. In one area it tells me one thing, and another something else. It actually says that my margins where correct on another part of the site. I think I was just getting confused. Like I said, this was just thrown into my lap. I normally just design the covers and don't have to deal with all of this. I've never even touched InDesign until this came along.

                                   

                                  Thank you all for the help! I really appreciate everyone taking the time to help me. I'm sorry it was something so trivial. I've been at this for weeks and while I didn't know a thing coming into it, I now know more than I ever wanted too. 

                                  • 14. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                                    SJRiegel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    jesterdev4444 wrote:

                                    I'm sorry it was something so trivial. I've been at this for weeks and while I didn't know a thing coming into it, I now know more than I ever wanted too. 

                                    Nothing is trivial if it keeps a job from moving forward.  I'm glad I could help.  

                                     

                                    Did you get the bleed portion of the problem worked out?

                                    • 15. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                                      jesterdev4444 Level 1

                                      I thought I had, but that part is still there, it just took awhile to show up...

                                       

                                      So here is a link to the file and images. I dropped it down to 10 pages just to give a feel and for size issues. Removed the text via my boss's request since that is not an issue.

                                      When you get the time, have a look? I really appreciate it.

                                       

                                      pages.zip - Google Drive

                                      • 16. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        This part of the image is crossing the spine and will show up on the right page"

                                         

                                        Untitled-1.jpg

                                        • 17. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                                          Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                                          The image on your page 3 is still wrong. The image ends at the page's edge. You have added some border around it, but this is USELESS. You have to extend the image itself, not add some grey, white or black border around it. This is only adding useless files size without any improvement to that what shout be done.

                                          If the image has the same size as the page you have to scale it up a little bit in InDesign, so it will extend to BleedBox guides, this must be done.

                                          You have also an empty image frame on the same page. You don't need it, you should delete it.

                                          If you have images on a spread, they need not to be extended to the other page of the same spread, they should end on the spine line.

                                          • 18. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            When you get the time, have a look? I really appreciate it.

                                            You've got a major problem with the page sizes. Your document and the A-master is set up to the correct trim size (8.25"x6"), but then the pages themselves have a custom size applied (Column), which is 8.5 x 6.

                                             

                                            There's no need to match the image dimensions to the page plus bleed dimensions in Photoshop. Place the image in InDesign and crop and scale the image there. An image and its frame are two separate objects, select he frame with the black arrow selection tool and the image with the white direct selection tool.

                                             

                                            So here I've reset the custom page to the correct trim. I have the picture frame selected and Transform tells me it includes the top, bottom, and left bleed and it's positioned correctly relative to the trim:

                                             

                                            Screen Shot 2016-02-12 at 7.49.13 AM.png

                                            Here I've selected the image with the grabber and you can see its relationship to the frame.

                                             

                                            crop.png

                                            • 19. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                                              jesterdev4444 Level 1

                                              Alright, this is my last attempt. The pages where messed up, it was my fault. I thought when I adjusted the margins it was applying that to all pages. So big thank you Rob Day. I started from scratch and I've tried

                                              so many different things. If I don't get it this weekend, we are just sending it in without images. Screw it.

                                               

                                              Can someone take a look at these two files and let me know what is wrong now? It's the same errors. Again. I've went over everything again and again. To me it's all spot on!

                                              Errors.jpg

                                               

                                              I exported the entire PDF into PNG images just as a last ditch attempt:

                                              PNG.indd - Google Drive

                                               

                                              And this one is just everything as normal:

                                              Temp.indd - Google Drive

                                               

                                              This is just the first 30 or so pages that I've been testing everything with.

                                               

                                              I wish Createspace provided interior templates for Indesign! They only have word. Would save me so much time and frustration.

                                              • 20. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                Can you post the PDF that's getting rejected?

                                                • 21. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                                                  jesterdev4444 Level 1

                                                  Absolutely, thank you for taking a look and for all your help.

                                                   

                                                  CampFirePNG.pdf - Google Drive

                                                  CampFireNormal.pdf - Google Drive

                                                  • 22. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                                                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    I don't see any problems with the dimensions and bleed, assuming 8.25x6 is really the trim size

                                                    • 23. Re: 1/8" bleed does not appear to be correct?
                                                      jesterdev4444 Level 1

                                                      Well that's good to hear, thanks for taking a look. I don't know what else to do with it. My suggestion was to just send through anyway.

                                                       

                                                      That's the correct trim size, so I don't know what the issue is.

                                                       

                                                      Thanks for all your help!