13 Replies Latest reply on Feb 17, 2016 3:36 PM by Stephen_A_Marsh

    Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?

    Richard Southworth Level 3

      Long time ACR user via Photoshop, recently acquired Elements 14 in order to teach its usage.  As in Photoshop one can use ACR on jpeg's, however I have not found any mechanism to delete the ACR metadata from a jpeg using only Elements.  I use "Develop Settings > Clear Settings" in Bridge for jpeg's modified in Photoshop, but would like to find a means that doesn't require Bridge, since the people I'm instructing have only Elements.

       

      BTW I'm impressed with the functionality packed into Elements 14, as long as one stays in the 8 bit world can do most of what I typically use in Photoshop.

       

      Richard Southworth

        • 1. Re: Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?
          Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional

          Richard, in CS6 my Bridge tests show that ACR metadata is NOT removed from a rendered JPEG using the Develop/Clear Settings command, which believe is only intended for JPEG files. Both Bridge and ExifTool indicate that the ACR metadata resides in the JPEG after running the clear command.

           

          It is possible to remove the ACR metadata from the JPEG file using ExifTool.

           

          The CLI code on a Mac would be:

           

          exiftool -XMP-crs:all= 'path/to/file/my file.jpg'

           

          While the CLI code on Windows would be:

           

          exiftool -XMP-crs:all= "c:\path\to\file\my file.jpg"


          (As the Jive forum software will likely butcher the code above once I hit submit, these are straight inch/foot marks and not curly typographer’s quotes)


          By default ExifTool would create a backup of the original files for safety, however it can be instructed to work remove the originals. ExifTool can also be instructed to run on all files and subdirectories filtered by file extension rather than only a specific file as in the example code above. There are GUI front ends for ExifTool if you don’t wish to use the standard CLI interface.


          • 2. Re: Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?
            Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional

            I forgot to mention that on the Mac OS you could setup an Automator Service to use this (modified) ExifTool code, then all you would need to do is right click on a file or folder to remove all metadata. This brings the power of CLI code to the convenience of an OS GUI mouse click.

             

            P.S. The forum software will not let me edit my previous post, which should have read (edit in bold):

             

            …in CS6 my Bridge tests show that ACR metadata is NOT removed from a rendered JPEG using the Develop/Clear Settings command, which I believe is only intended for raw files

            • 3. Re: Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?
              Richard Southworth Level 3

              I just used Bridge CC to Clear Settings on several sample jpegs previously edited with ACR 9.4, and they no longer invoke Camera Raw when opened, either with Photoshop or Elements 14, and Bridge indicates the edits are cleared.  The process may not remove every remnant of the ACR metadata, but it certainly cancels out its effect.

               

              Richard Southworth

              • 4. Re: Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?
                Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional

                Ah, this is not what I was referring to Richard.

                 

                I was talking about the metadata stating the ACR settings that are baked into a JPEG from the initial raw conversion/rendering.

                 

                From your reply, it appears that you are talking about actually editing a rendered JPEG file in ACR (whether or not it came from a raw file that was processed through ACR)? If this is the case, then yes, you can clear the develop settings in Bridge, just as if it was a raw file.

                • 5. Re: Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?
                  Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional

                  I just tested the ExifTool commands that I previously posted, on a JPEG file that had been developed in ACR from Bridge using CMD-R.

                   

                  Once I stripped the same metadata values, the file returned to it’s state, the same as before using ACR.

                   

                  So, if Photoshop Elements does not offer a method to remove this metadata, you can do it with ExifTool. And if you use ExifTool on a Mac, you can use Apple Automator to create a GUI based contextual click to remove this metadata.

                  • 6. Re: Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?
                    Richard Southworth Level 3

                    Yup, the subject was deleting, within Elements, the Camera Raw metadata embedded into ACR edited jpegs.  ACR has evolved from strictly a  raw file converter to a general purpose non-destructive image editor, usable and useful on multiple formats.

                     

                    And yes, I'm familiar with ExifTool, but I don't believe it's a viable method to teach to a class learning Elements.

                     

                    Richard Southworth

                    • 7. Re: Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?
                      Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional

                      Yup, the subject was deleting, within Elements, the Camera Raw metadata embedded into ACR edited jpegs.

                       

                      Yes, the subject was titled “Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?” which was ambiguous as ACR metadata can come to be embedded into a JPEG in at least two common ways:

                       

                      1. Processing a raw camera file in ACR and saving out a JPEG
                      2. Processing a TIFF or JPEG file in ACR

                       

                      The second option can create a bit of confusion from a historical metadata viewpoint, however that is a separate discussion.

                       

                      Yes, I mistakenly thought that we were discussing item #1, when the body of your text mentioned item #2.

                       

                      ACR has evolved from strictly a  raw file converter to a general purpose non-destructive image editor, usable and useful on multiple formats.

                       

                      I am still on CS6, which only processes non raw formats of TIFF and JPEG. Has this changed in later versions?

                       

                      And yes, I'm familiar with ExifTool, but I don't believe it's a viable method to teach to a class learning Elements.

                       

                      Outside of Bridge and ExifTool - I am not aware of other software that will do what you require? There are GUI front ends available for ExifTool, however this again may be too deep for a simple single use case. I would like to know if there are other options out there too. Can one script Elements? I know next to nothing about Elements.

                       

                      In Bridge, one could save a "camera raw defaults" setting with all values zeroed out where possible and using as shot white balance etc. Then one could apply this default to “developed” JPEG/TIFF images to "reset" their values, which would have the same end result of removing the develop metadata (with the important distinction that the data has not been removed, just "neutralised"). Can one do similar in your version of Elements using the browser/organiser?

                      • 8. Re: Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?
                        Richard Southworth Level 3

                        No, "Processing a raw camera file in ACR and saving out a JPEG" does NOT embed Camera Raw metadata, it comes out as a clean jpeg, assuming ones uses the Save button in ACR.

                         

                        Richard Southworth

                        • 9. Re: Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?
                          Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional
                          No, "Processing a raw camera file in ACR and saving out a JPEG" does NOT embed Camera Raw metadata, it comes out as a clean jpeg, assuming ones uses the Save button in ACR.

                           

                          Yes, it can – even using ACR’s “Save Image…” button, it depends on the settings defaulted/selected. Mine is set to All and the ACR “develop” metadata is included. It would have to be explicity excluded with one of the other three options illustrated below.

                           

                          So as is often the case with these discussions, the correct answer is “it depends”.

                           

                          pig-wrestling.png

                           

                          Opening the developed raw image into Photoshop from ACR retains the ACR develop metadata, as does using Image Processor from Bridge.

                           

                          Richard, have you explored my previous suggestion of looking into saving a “camera raw defaults” or a “preset” setting with all values zeroed out?


                          Does anybody else have any ideas?

                          • 10. Re: Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?
                            Richard Southworth Level 3

                            Ok, here's an experiment:

                             

                            1. Load a raw file into ACR 9.4.

                            2. Make a very obvious editing change, in this case dropped exposure 3 stops.

                            3. Save out as a jpeg, with All checked.

                            4. Click Done

                            5. Load the resulting jpeg into Photoshop, it did NOT invoke ACR.

                            6. Ran File Info, the complete CR data section was present within the jpeg.

                             

                            Conclusion - one has to actually call up ACR for a jpeg to "set the bit" that causes ACR to be invoked the next time the image is loaded into Photoshop.  Yes, the CR data is there for a Save out as a jpeg (with All checked), but ACR is not opened.  And I checked, the change was baked into the pixels, in that the jpeg opened at reduced exposure in a non-Adobe image viewer.  Apparently the CR data is left in the jpeg as some sort of historical record, identifying the source of the edit as CR.

                             

                            Yes, I've tried all the above to clear the "use ACR" state within Elements, not available, and a reasonably authoritative text claims that Elements does not provide a means to deactivate.  IMO it's not particularly important whether or not the CR data is present in the jpeg, what confuses novice users is whether or not loading a jpeg forces ACR, and whether they get the same result from a non-Adobe viewer as they do in ACR.

                             

                            Richard Southworth

                            • 11. Re: Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?
                              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              CR data is in a JPG for two reasons:

                               

                              1 – because it’s the develop recipe and was stored there with Metadata / Write Changes to XMP and will be applied to the original pixels that are still in the JPG to produce the new look when opened in Adobe software set to recognize and apply those settings, or

                               

                              2 – because it’s the historical record of what settings were already used to produce the baked in changes to the pixels viewable in any software.

                               

                              PS/ACR are smart enough to determine the difference, so look carefully at the File Info XML in PS to determine which versions of CR data you’re looking at.

                               

                              I think it’s also possible to have both a history of changes and a current set of unapplied changes so there might be two sets of CRS settings.

                              • 12. Re: Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?
                                Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional
                                Yes, the CR data is there for a Save out as a jpeg (with All checked), but ACR is not opened.  And I checked, the change was baked into the pixels, in that the jpeg opened at reduced exposure in a non-Adobe image viewer.  Apparently the CR data is left in the jpeg as some sort of historical record, identifying the source of the edit as CR.

                                 

                                Yes, exactly – this is what I have been saying! There are two different things taking place here.

                                 

                                And what I have also been saying is if this ACR Settings metadata is removed from a JPEG that has been “developed” in ACR (whether or not it started life as a raw camera file) – then the file no longer opens into ACR as the rendering instructions are lost as they are not baked into the image.

                                 

                                If the ACR Settings “develop” metadata is in the file from a previous “historical” raw rendering, then the data is “historical” and has no “live” effect on the ACR controls.

                                 

                                If the “develop” metadata is applied to the file using ACR as a non-destructive image editor – removing this metadata clears the “live/latent” effect on the image and it is returned to it’s “baked in” state. just as if it was opened in a third party editor that can’t use the ACR “develop” settings.

                                 

                                …what confuses novice users is whether or not loading a jpeg forces ACR, and whether they get the same result from a non-Adobe viewer as they do in ACR.

                                 

                                This has always been the issue since ACR gained the ability to “edit” JPEG and TIFF files.

                                 

                                Adobe’s Russell Brown had a good video on this which you could use for your class:

                                 

                                Tips Page

                                 

                                View QuickTime tutorial; 11 MB

                                • 13. Re: Delete ACR metadata from jpeg using Elements?
                                  Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional

                                  Thanks for joining the discussion ssprengel:

                                   

                                  PS/ACR are smart enough to determine the difference, so look carefully at the File Info XML in PS to determine which versions of CR data you’re looking at.

                                   

                                  I think it’s also possible to have both a history of changes and a current set of unapplied changes so there might be two sets of CRS settings.

                                   

                                  I have not performed “forensic” studies, however my “hack peeping” has not confirmed or denied the above. I have not found the difference if there is any, just that clearing out this metadata “en masse” removes the “unapplied changes” and the “historical changes” – a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.