27 Replies Latest reply on Mar 19, 2016 12:42 PM by Rowby

    Before I go spending all this money...

    Arden_Vark

      Hello one and all. Firstly thanks for taking the time to look at this thread.

       

      I am going to be building a computer that will primarily be used for offline Premiere Pro use in a professional capacity. Anything from features to commercials to live events etc. I have done a fair amount of research and think I have put together a very worthy system for the money, however would really appreciate if those of you a little more in the know can drop me any advice on improvements I could make, either to make good performance improvements or idnetify where I may be wasting money...so here goes...

       

      Cooler Master Carbide Series Air 540

      Corsair HX1000i PSU

      i7 5930K

      Heatsink...considering a watercooler as I hear the 5930K can be a good overclocker but not sure which.

      GTX 980Ti

      32GB 3200MHz DDR4...not sure if I should go 64GB or how many channels I should go with...are there compatibility issues with the 5930K and certain motherboards/RAM combos?

      1 x M.2 512GB Samsung 950Pro NVMe + 960GB SanDisk Ultra II ... not sure which way round gives better performance with regards to OS/Adobe CC on one and the other for cache/swap/scratch?

      2 x WD Black 3TB HDD, in RAID for backup safety.

      Gigabyte GA-X99-Gaming 5P...not convinced on this choice, recommendations?

      Logickeyboard Adobe Premiere Pro CC

      Mouse of some description...

       

      What do you think of my choices? I am open to changing any of the parts under good advice.

      Thank you.

        • 1. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
          RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

          i think a normal tower case would have better space, at least more hdd trays. many now come with full dust filters and noise dampening material. fractal design, phanteks, corsair, and nzxt have some good cases.

           

          liquid cooling can offer max overclock, but if you are in a production environment you may not want to red-line the cpu and risk downtime with a burnt out motherboard and/or cpu. an air cooler like the noctua d15 will be close to liquid cooling, but doesn't risk pump failure or leakage. if it breaks, it only takes a spare fan to repair, not replace the whole liquid cooler system.

           

          if you are looking for premium hardware, the corsair ax psu's will be better. the corsair hx or the new RMi or RMx are ok, but not the RM. if you want more options or to find sales, you can also look thru these too. evga gs, g2, ps, p2, and t2, seasonic x and platinum series, or any gold rated XFX brand are good options.

           

          the 5930k is a 5820k with extra pcie lanes, 40 vs 28. if you don't plan on loading up 4 or 5 devices, the 5820k can offer savings.

           

          the gtx 980 ti might be overkill, it will depend on your media and projects. if you are doing 4k with several gpu effects, the gtx 970 should be enough. if you are working with red raw and need the gpu debayering, or doing anything with speedgrade or davinci resolve, the gtx 980 ti will be better.

           

          32gb should be ok, 64gb if you have multiple programs open, each using alot of memory. you will want to look up the memory compatibility list (QVL) for the motherboard you pick, to pick by compatibility. you may also find 3000mhz or 2666mhz memory slightly cheaper, and may not notice any performance difference. lower cas latency timing is just as important if you are looking for high performance.

           

          the samsung 950 pro is best for media and cache as one drive, and a 250-500gb samsung 850 pro for the os/apps drive.

           

          you may want to consider enterprise drives for reliability and better compatibility with raid controllers. if you are just looking for backup/storage/archive, WD and seagate make archive edition enterprise drives too. if you are doing raid for backup, i would advise against that. raid is not to be considered another copy of data, just a more secure single copy. raid can take down both drives, and doesn't protect from user/virus deletion. if you have a second and/or third copy of the data, and just want more reliable or available data localized, then raid can be ok.

           

          that gigabyte motherboard has at least one problem, the m.2 slot is rated at 10gb/s. for the samsung 950 pro you will want a m.2 slot labeled as ultra or x4, at 32gb/s. if you are wanting gigabyte, they just released this new motherboard. GIGABYTE GA-X99P-SLI  it has full x4 m.2 and even has thunderbolt 3. this motherboard appears to be middle of the road, meaning it may not be a super overclocker. it also has some warnings about the m.2 slot disabling motherboard raid and m.2 speeds limited with certain cpu's.

           

          the asus motherboards are most often recommended here. the x99-a/usb3.1 is a decent motherboard, but will also limit device expansion, even with the 40 lane cpu. the asus deluxe allows for more expansion, but is also closely priced to the asus WS motherboard, which is much better. the asus x99 ws/usb3.1 motherboard seems to be out of stock at alot of places, perhaps asus is working on a new version with thunderbolt.

          • 2. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
            Arden_Vark Level 1

            Wowser, thank you for the very in-depth response!

             

            I already actually had my sights on that Noctua D15, so that's probably locked in for me now. I plan to OC but not to push it too far as I don't want to lower the lifespan of the CPU too much, just get a little more performace out of it. I will primarily be running Premiere Pro with a little use of Davinci Resolve, however project types are going to be diverse and I kind of like the idea of having a little more than I need so that it can handle whatever is thrown at it, hence my initial choice of the 980TI. I will however pay attention to what others have to say too. Thanks a lot for the motherboard recommendations, definitely an area I need to do some more research in. Thanks also for that details about where to look for the RAM choices. I currently have my eyes set on G.SKILL TridentZ Series F4-3200C14D-32GTZ 32 GB (16 GB x 2) DDR4 3200 MHz CL14 1.35V Memory Kit since it offers a good bandwidth with low latency...however compatibility will need to be checked and I am thinking that 4x8GB will be better than 2x16GB...would that be correct still? If I only have 4 lanes maybe best to go 2x16GB now then add 2x16GB in the future...?

             

            I'm certainly intrigued by the best way of setting up the drives. Since the NVMe SSD is so much faster, is that the reason for using it for the media and cache, as speed is more important for this than the OS/Apps? There will also be an external backup solution on top of this, and the WD Black drives I mentioned are for local storage only.

             

            Once again, many thanks for the guidance, it makes a big difference

            • 3. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
              Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Arden_Vark wrote

               

              I'm certainly intrigued by the best way of setting up the drives. Since the NVMe SSD is so much faster, is that the reason for using it for the media and cache, as speed is more important for this than the OS/Apps?

              Yes.

              • 4. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                most of these x99 motherboards have 8 memory slots, it would be good to make sure the one you pick does too. with 8 slots, you can get 4x8gb sticks to have 32gb and run quad channel bandwidth, and still have 4 memory slots left over for adding more later if needed.

                 

                the wd drives may be fine, but i recommend the enterprise drives as they have lower failure rates and lower data corruption rates. some of the enterprise drives aren't too much more expensive than the wd blacks either. if you just want affordable drives, there are cheaper ones available than the black series, that will be as reliable. 4tb wd nas red or blue, or seagates will be cheaper and larger capacity. many of the 3tb drives have higher failure rates, especially the seagates.

                • 5. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                  Rowby Level 1

                  Hi Ronin and Bill


                  Interesting thread.  Can you recommend some of the

                  • 6. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                    RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                    hgst has a reputation as one of the best. hgst, seagate, and wd all have several models, and their websites will get into specifics. some are for nas or archive, those models are often slower rpm and/or performance.

                     

                    newegg or pcpartpicker can help narrow searches down for enterprise hdd's and cases with large amounts of drive bays.

                    Enterprise HDD - Newegg.com

                    Choose A Case - PCPartPicker

                     

                    this new nzxt h440 case says it will hold 11 3.5" hdd's, but isn't listed on pcpartpickers search. NEW NZXT H440 STEEL Mid Tower Case

                     

                    if you need around 15 bays, some cases come with around 12 spaces and several 5.25" external bays that can be used for a few more spots. if you are looking for around 20, you may need to look at lian li or case labs.

                    • 7. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                      Arden_Vark Level 1

                      Just to put it out there and update my original post, my build is now slightly adapted to look like the following...however is still in debate and I have a couple of weeks before I will be making purchases so it will likely change again based on continued advice...

                       

                      Case TBC

                      Corsair AX860i PSU...presumably this is enough power?

                      i7 5820K...now wondering is it worth considering Xeon??

                      Noctua D15

                      GTX 980Ti

                      32GB (4x8GB) 3200MHz DDR4 CL14 RAM

                      500GB Samsung 850 Pro SSD (OS/Apps)

                      M.2 512GB Samsung 950Pro NVMe (Cache/Scratch)

                      Do I need extra SSD or similar configuration for best video editing setup? Seen some recommending 4/5 drives...

                      4TB WD SE 7200RPM HDD (Local storage)

                      Motherboard...still debating with myself about this...do I or don't I require Thunderbolt/USB-C etc...TBC

                       

                      Please keep recommendations coming, I'm very impressed with the experience and knowledge floating around this forum!!

                      • 8. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                        Rowby Level 1

                        I am wondering how a raid is incorporated into this system.

                         

                        My current video editing computer (built several years ago) has a Areca Raid Controler.  My understanding is a separate raid controller (not built into the motherboard) is essential for fast editing-- using multiple hard drives.

                         

                        What are today's 2016 thoughts about raid controllers -- and which brand/model is the best these days for video editing....


                        Thanks

                        Rowby

                        • 9. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                          Arden_Vark Level 1

                          For me the RAID was simply a way of having local storage automatically backed up in real time in case of a HDD failure. I am unsure if this is the way to go or not now, so I may just include 1 single WD SE 4TB drive instead. RAID was used in the past to speed up multiple drives however SSDs, as far as I am aware, now make RAID usage in this way unnecessary. I am sure someone else can be more defiitive about this for you.

                          • 10. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                            Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            "M.2 512GB Samsung 950Pro NVMe (Cache/Scratch)"

                            Terrible waste of this extreme performance device if that is all you are using it for.  I put all the Premiere Pro project files on it and  I leave the Adobe Cache Files and the Cache Database in the "User" default location on your 850 Pro.  The antique "Seen some recommending 4/5 drives." is a leftover from "the old days" when hard disk drives were the only options.

                            • 11. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                              RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                              the watts on the psu if good enough to power everything. quality higher watt psu's are recommended for high/max overclocks, as they deliver cleaner and more stable power.

                               

                              xeon's are expensive, they aren't worth considering for performance until after the 8core i7-5960x. even then, the next gen i7's will work in the x99 motherboard and will offer a 10core i7-6950x. only after that the xeon's with more cores might be worth considering. however premiere doesn't multi-thread very well with high core counts, so the i7 10 core may be the ultimate setup for premiere for a good while.

                               

                              thunderbolt is really good for laptops or small computers (think the mac pro) that do not have much room for drives or pcie cards. thunderbolt allows more devices to be connected externally. if you don't need it for anything, it may only help with the idea of future-proofing the computer.

                               

                              for storage, people used to run several hdd's in raid to get good performance. now a single sata ssd can take the place of several hdd's in raid.

                              some people want/need more performance than a single sata ssd, and use several sata ssd's in raid. some use/need this for very high bitrate media.

                              now we have pcie ssd, which is as fast as several sata ssd's in raid. this is good for avoiding sata ssd raid, and/or the simplicity of one drive for cache/scratch and media. people wanting it for speed improvements with very high bitrate media can only fit a few minutes onto the 512gb samsung 950 pro or 1.2tb intel 750 and currently have to turn to extremely expensive enterprise pcie ssd solutions or sata ssd raid to get higher capacity. samsung and intel both have promised larger pcie ssd consumer drives that will be much more affordable than the enterprise versions. so i would say raid cards in towers are going to be a thing of the past, but may be around in servers for a while.

                               

                              using motherboard or windows raid to have two identical drives is used by many. i just wanted to stress the point that its not a substitution for a backup. raid is used to either increase speed, capacity, and/or add an extra layer of protection to data. in the case of mirror raid, it can be used for better up-time for the os/apps drive or data drives.

                               

                              another way to have duplicate local data outside of the risks of raid, is to use a file sync program. many of these programs will do the same thing as the raid mirror, but can also be configured to keep any deleted files, or rename files before overwriting them with new versions. those extra steps prevent user deletion, raid corruption, as well as keep old file versions. some of these programs can be configured to monitor activity and keep the second drive updated in real-time, or can be done when the drives aren't in use to avoid any performance hits.

                              • 12. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                If you really want RAID the Areca 1883 line is the current one to look at, but my opinion RAID is no longer necessary on current new builds.  When a single PCIe Gen 3 x4 SSD with microsecond latencies can replace slow hard disk drives which have millisecond latencies and have read and write rates 10 times that hard disk drives.do this why bother with RAID for performance?

                                Samsung 950 Pro M.2 with a PCIe Gen 3 x4 connection on my X99 computer

                                • 13. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                  Arden_Vark Level 1

                                  Hi Bill, With regard to the 950 Pro...I put that a bit simply, I would also use it for my project files. I noted form another recent thread you mentioned you currently run:

                                   

                                  C: OS/Applications/Adobe Media Cache and Media Cache Database\--Samsung 850 Pro SATA III

                                  D: All the rest of the Premier Project files--Samsung 950 Pro M.2

                                   

                                  I want to set mine up correctly and to be honest, it has been a while since I did the initial setup process of Premiere Pro with regard to drive allocation. Can you give me a clear layout of what to place on which drives from within Premiere options and the amount of space that you would recommend allocated on each drive? I'm wondering if a 500GB 850 Pro as C: and 512GB 950 Pro M.2 as D: is a good choice, or if I need to increase drive C: capacity or utilise a third 1TB SSD as E: for any overflow media on bigger projects? (I feel a little like this is asking to be spoon fed )

                                   

                                  Of course there will be extra drives internal for storage plus external backups.

                                  • 14. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                    Rowby Level 1

                                    Hi Bill

                                     

                                    that is good news.  I would certainly love to dispense with a raid controller on my planned new build.  As you knowHarm Millaard was an advocate of raids.  He's apparently no longer active here, but I assume he would give his blessings to a non-raid editing system if it made sense these days.


                                    Rowby

                                    • 15. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                      Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      It all depends on your projects, workflow, and goals.  Harm posted a new build this past November and it is still very RAID-centric.  I do not need files that are a six months to a year old and so I move those files off-line storage.  If your work requires frequent usage of older data and you need the highest level of file security that you may still need RAID.  One way I have security is that I have found that I am in love with the new Samsung T1 and now the new T3 USB3 flash drives (now up to 2 TB) so I can sit here with my laptop in the comfort of family room (and with the wife) and edit away.  I then pull the USB 3 flash drive out and walk to the workstation (my workstation is not powered up most of time) and copy everything to it and finish editing or simply export the finished file.

                                      • 16. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                        Arden_Vark Level 1

                                        OK so I "think" I have settled on an Asus x99-Pro/USB3.1...or is Sabertooth better?? I need Thunderbolt so I guess it's this or the new Gigabyte only real choices?

                                         

                                        Struggling with Case. I want something smart and not too big.

                                        • 17. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                          RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                          the gigabyte board would be cheaper, but it also seems limited. using the m.2 will disable motherboard raid, and according to one of the newegg reviews the m.2 will run half speed with the 28 lane cpu. if that's true, gigabyte totally messed up the pcie lane design for that board. some other review said something about usb problems being a known issue with the gigabyte boards...  its also not going to be as good at overclocking as asus or asrock with the OC socket.

                                           

                                          asus sabertooth has a few different features from the asus pro, but the m.2 and pcie lanes seem to be similar. the sabertooth has longer warranty, which i think suggests its built better. you might want to read reviews on the motherboards to help you pick.

                                           

                                          for tower cases, the Fractal Design Define R5 is very well designed, and would also be a good benchmark to compare other cases you are considering against. there are several cases from other mfg's that are similar to the Define R5, but usually not as refined. there is a new version of the nzxt h440 that looks good with a fan controller, but no 5.25" bays if that matters to you. the expensive phanteks evolv has a unique look to it. many of the cheaper phanteks cases come with less hdd mounting cages, and they have to be purchased separately. the phanteks eclipse p400s is one of those, it comes with just 2 hdd bays, but is also alot cheaper. it also holds larger e-atx motherboards. its brand new though and not released just yet, newegg says 03/07/2016.

                                          • 18. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                            Arden_Vark Level 1

                                            Thanks I am going to do some more research into the motherboards and those cases you mentioned. I think I am not going to bother with any raid now and just have a strong external backup solution from G-Tech or similar plus 4TB local storage in addition to my SSD for boot and M2 SSD for projects and media.

                                             

                                            I really love my current Z77X-UP5TH motherboard from Gigabyte which I think is why I keep considering them for this build, however I think Asus is probably the right way to go.

                                             

                                            The help from everyone here has been invaluable. Mega thanks to you all

                                            • 19. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                              Arden_Vark Level 1

                                              OK everyone, I think this may well be my final build decision, or at least very close to it (I prob have a week until I begin).

                                               

                                              Please give your final thoughts on this build, and don't be shy to tell me you would make changes. I think I am going to bite the bullet and get the 5960X for starters...but it could be a waste of money as maybe 5820K is enough.

                                               

                                              Check it out here... http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/BRchRB

                                               

                                               

                                              • 20. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                                RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                                with your total build cost, the 5960x isn't a terrible choice. it adds about 20% cost, but boosts performance around 30%.

                                                you might want to look at the new noctua nh-15S. is suppose to be offset to avoid clearance issues with the gpu in the top pcie slot, but only has one fan.

                                                the define R5 is a good case, but the window version looses some of the noise dampening material where the window is...

                                                 

                                                this isn't a problem exactly, but just so you are aware, the asus x99a and x99pro are limited in expansion. they only offer 3 devices using cpu pcie lanes, the 40 lane cpu would split to x16/x16/x8. you have a gpu, thunderbolt card, and m.2 drive in your parts list, using all 3 device spots up. you can look at the manual to see more information about the pcie and m.2 slots.

                                                • 21. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                                  Rowby Level 1

                                                  Bill Gehrke wrote:

                                                   

                                                  so I can sit here with my laptop in the comfort of family room (and with the wife) and edit away.

                                                  Hi Bill,

                                                   

                                                  On a side note, can you tell us your Laptop brand and its specs?   Or provide a link to a possible post regarding your current laptop.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks,
                                                  Rowby

                                                  • 22. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                                    Arden_Vark Level 1

                                                    im a little confused with what you say about the X99-Pro/USB3.1 since it states it can have quad gfx but you're saying I can only have 1 GPU plus the thunderbolt card and the 950 Pro with no room for further expansion?

                                                    • 23. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                                      RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                                      where did you find it saying quad gpu? the manual says 3 way sli, and this is from their website

                                                      GPU POST: Find more info about your graphics cards and slot bandwidth allocation. Great for 2 or 3-way SLI or CrossFireX

                                                       

                                                      i might be wrong about the thunderbolt card needing a pcie 3.0 slot. the asus website says the thunderbolt card will work in a pcie 2.0 x4 slot, which is what the second full size x16 slot is actually running at from the pch. so if the thunderbolt card works in that slot, it would leave the third pcie x16 size slot available at x16 cpu pcie lanes. the fourth x16 slot is shared with the m.2 slot, and will be disabled when you install the m.2 ssd.

                                                      • 24. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                                        Arden_Vark Level 1

                                                        The specifications on their website found here https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/X99PROUSB_31/specifications/

                                                         

                                                        say that it supports quad GPU:

                                                         

                                                        • Multi-GPU SupportSupports NVIDIA® Quad-GPU SLI™ Technology
                                                          Supports NVIDIA® 3-Way SLI™ Technology
                                                          Supports AMD Quad-GPU CrossFireX™ Technology
                                                          Supports AMD 3-Way CrossFireX™ Technology

                                                         

                                                        So potentially, I can have the 950 pro, the thunderbolt a 980TI installed and still have space for an additional 980Ti in future or another expansion card?

                                                         

                                                        What board should I get if I want more expansion options? the deluxe or the WS? I'm concerned that they aren't really going to give me much for the extra money, especially if I end up not adding anything to it... :/

                                                        • 25. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                                          RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                                          with what i said in the post above, i think there is a good chance the third pcie x16 size slot will be available for another gpu.

                                                          the gpu you have seems to be a dual slot. you would need to make sure you don't get one thats 2 1/2 or 3 slot or it would interfere with the third slot.

                                                           

                                                          that quad-gpu sli is for two gpu cards that have 2 gpu chips on them. so the two cards together have 4 chips, but that is for older cards. the current nvidia cards are built with just one gpu chip in them.  NVIDIA Quad-SLI | NVIDIA

                                                           

                                                          if you look at the manual for any of the asus boards you are considering, they will list the expansion slot configurations.

                                                          the x99 A and Pro with a 40 lane cpu split to 3 devices, x16/x16/x8. there are a few pcie gen 2.0 x4 and x1 slots left over that use pch lanes.

                                                          x99 deluxe with a 40 lane cpu splits to 5 devices, x8/x8/x8/x8/x8

                                                          x99 ws is different, it has a plx chip, it supports 7 devices at x16/x8/x8/x8/x8/x8/x8

                                                          • 26. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                                            JEShort01 Level 4

                                                            The Asus x99 WS is a popular board because it is so expandable, but it is also larger than ATX and will likely require you to rethink your case too.

                                                            • 27. Re: Before I go spending all this money...
                                                              Rowby Level 1

                                                              Hi Arden,

                                                               

                                                              As you finally build your new computer, I'd like to know what your actual final build went -- with all of your final components.  SSD, motherboard, etc.

                                                               

                                                              Thanks


                                                              Rowby