16 Replies Latest reply on Mar 15, 2016 11:43 PM by joachims25232702

    Lightroom and elements crossover question

    duncanidaho

      Windows7 LR 5.7.1   PSE version 10    

       

      Had been using elements for 10 years when I installed LR5 on the same machine. It's been a very difficult learning curve for me but that's another issue. During the time with elements I never knew anything about folder structure having no idea that such things  even existed. During the installation process of LR it asked me if I wanted to update LR with the "found" elements photos to which I said yes. Imagine my shock when the whole left side of the LR screen were folders. The next thing I noticed was that my keywords were a total mess with many of them not transferring over, (straightening them out took a year). At that point I went back and opened elements to see if there was anything I could do from there to fix the keywords. I  noticed then that all the thumbnails for my images were still there which was confusing for me since I had just sent them to LR or so I thought. Each of the thumbnails had a question mark in the upper left corner which I later learned meant the file was missing.  Not a problem since they were in LR and not lost.--------------now for the current issue. One year has passed since I had elements open. I recently opened elements to find that hundreds of those photos that used to have a question mark on them, don't now. To my way of thinking elements has reconnected those hundreds. I want to uninstall elements since I do not use it. I'm terrified that if I do the photos that seem to be reconnected will disappear from my computer. Has anyone faced this before and can give me advice. Hopefully someone from Adobe.            

       

      Thanks,

      Brian

        • 1. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
          joachims25232702 Level 1

          PSE does not easily show you the folders where your photos are. It is easy to loose photos that way as some of these folders may not be backed up. I find this unacceptable. I have battled a lot with that issue while migrating from Windows XP to 10 over the years.

          Lr is good as it shows you the folders, and the mess PSE allowed you to make.

          I would make a PSE catalog backup and then restore that in another install of PSE using the option NOT to restore the photos in the original place. That gives you a clean re-start with a clear location of all your photos within the restored catalog.Then import that catalog in LR.

          • 2. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
            99jon Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            I would suggest leaving Elements installed. Simply stop using Organizer. You can actually set up PSE10 in the LR Prefs as an additional Editor for external editing directly from the LR Library – see image below. This can be useful for the things LR can’t do, such as using Layers, Blend Modes, Text etc.

             

            LRprefExternal.jpg

            • 3. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
              dj_paige Level 9

              Your photos are NOT stored in Elements. Your photos are NOT stored in Lightroom.

               

              The photos are on the hard disk somewhere, in the folder where you put them, or where you instructed Elements or Lightroom to put them. Both Elements and Lightroom know the location so that they can make use of the photo.

               

              Furthermore, whatever you do in one program (like edit a photo, or uninstall the program) has NO effect on the other program. They do not speak to one another.

               

              You can go ahead and uninstall Elements without problem.

               

              If you have been using Lightroom for a year and haven't grasped these concepts yet, you might want to look at some Lightroom tutorials: Getting Started with Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5 | Adobe TV

              • 4. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
                duncanidaho Level 1

                Thanks dj            yes I am aware of LR not holding the images, and of the folder structure that does. What has me confused is why "some" images in PSE that originally had ? on them now don't. Knowing that the two programs have nothing to do with one another is helpful. I am a person who wants "a place for everything, and everything in it's place" and these two programs don't always give me that feeling.

                • 5. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
                  duncanidaho Level 1

                  Thanks for the helpful info.  I have  used the PSE editor on some of my pictures but only a very few. I have the add-on silver efex pro and color efex pro that pretty much do all I need. I am a hobbyist and do not shoot a great deal so this works for me.

                  • 6. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
                    dj_paige Level 9

                    What has me confused is why "some" images in PSE that originally had ? on them now don't.

                     

                    I don't know. I doubt we could figure this out anyway, since we would have to do this across the internet and going back in time.

                     

                    I am a person who wants "a place for everything, and everything in it's place" and these two programs don't always give me that feeling.

                    Well, I certainly feel the opposite. Lightroom allows me to keep photos wherever I want them to be, and organize them in any way I want to organize them (given the tools available). I am in complete control of all of these aspects of my photos.

                    • 7. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
                      duncanidaho Level 1

                      I agree with you and have to say that I have lost pictures in the past and could never figure out how it happened. I've also had the feeling that PSE would put images into folders that were not always in the "Picture Folder" on the HDD. Even now there are documents within my Picture Folder. It makes me believe that my pictures, documents, music etc. are all mixed up and stored in a haphazzard fashion. It's easy to see how photos go missing. I will make a fresh back up of PSE just in case. I'm doing it as we speak.

                       

                      thanks

                      • 8. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
                        duncanidaho Level 1

                        so too will I be as soon as I get rid of PSE and the confusion/frustration it has given me. I see all of the ways to keep files organized in LR and I use some of them now. Keywords is a carryover from PSE that I still use today because I am familiar with the system and I don't really have a lot of images (6000) to deal with. It's been the folder structure that has given me the most grief. I know that for some the folders are where images are organized and that's great, whatever works I guess. I have watched many tutorials by noted people and read a great deal, all on LR. I currently have a personal adobe certified instructor helping me so I'm coming along. For me it's more a lack of use of LR than anything else. I would wager that you use it every day. If not for your own pictures then for helping others through forums. Either way you stay active with it. I don't, but I suppose I should.

                         

                        thanks dj

                        • 9. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
                          dj_paige Level 9

                          The simplest way to deal with folders and not have problems with them is the following:

                           

                          Copy/Move each photo once. Not twice, or three times or more, once and once only. That's it, when the photo comes out of the camera, put it where it is supposed to go, in the folder where you want it to be, and NEVER MOVE IT. Then you will never have problems with Lightroom losing track of photos (and I presume, also you will never have problems with finding your photos).

                           

                          The people that we see in these forums who have problems with their folders in Lightroom, and lose track of images, have developed some workflow of moving photos from here to there, and perhaps also using the operating system to place photos in folders, AND they don't understand how Lightroom works. We see lots of people in these forums who move photos around, from here to there, and suddenly Lightroom is doing what they want, although Lightroom is doing what it is programmed to do. (I'm sure some people have these workflows and never have problems, and these people understand how Lightroom works and are able to make this workflow work for them).

                           

                          So, photos go into a folder straight out of the camera, AND NEVER MOVE THEM AGAIN.


                          Extra bonus: if you copy/move each photo once, it is LESS WORK than workflows that require photos to be moved from here to there.

                           

                          Now, having said that, there is one exception. If you want to begin using a new hard disk or new computer, then you would need to copy or move photos to the new hard disk/new computer. This is relatively simple if you follow the instructions (see Part 2 of this document: Adobe Lightroom - Find moved or missing files and folders), and a nightmare if you don't follow the instructions.

                          • 10. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
                            duncanidaho Level 1

                            Since installing LR I have used single folders by year to hold my pictures. It's the 10 years with PSE when I wasn't aware of folders that has come back to haunt me. Had I done my homework I would have maintained a neat, organized folder structure over those years which would have made the change to LR much easier for me. My inclination is to consolidate the dozens of folders, many with just 1 image, into a single parent folder. However hearing your advice to leave it alone perhaps I should reconsider my idea.

                            • 11. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
                              dj_paige Level 9

                              Your plan seems to me to be extra work that adds no extra value. And it also contains the possibility of making mistakes ...

                               

                              If you have good keywords and other metadata to allow you to find your photos, then consolidating folders does not improve your organization in any way.

                               

                              I would say leave the folders alone, it's the simplest approach, and it has no drawbacks.

                              • 12. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
                                Bob Somrak Level 5

                                dj_paige wrote:

                                 

                                Furthermore, whatever you do in one program (like edit a photo, or uninstall the program) has NO effect on the other program. They do not speak to one another.

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                If you are using both Lightroom and Elements and they reference the SAME JPG or TIFF than this is not true.  Unlike Lightroom, Elements allows you to OVERWRITE a JPG or TIFF file with an edit.  If you do this then the photo that is referenced in the Lightroom Catalog will change. 

                                • 13. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
                                  dj_paige Level 9

                                  Good point, Bob. I would hope that no one ever overwrites the originals, but in fact people do this sometimes.

                                  • 14. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
                                    joachims25232702 Level 1

                                    I am not sure if what you say is true for Windows. There you might easily copy photos into some five feet deep nested user account photo folder. Once you make some silly mistake messing with the system, your username changed, and hoops, there is another photofolder created. Sure, PSE still knows where your Photo is, but you do not. Now you make a backup if your current user folder - guess what will happen to the old one... And so it continues..  Extracting all photos from a catalog into a backup and restoring that to a dedicated partition made for photos seems for me the only way out of that.

                                    • 15. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
                                      dj_paige Level 9

                                      There you might easily copy photos into some five feet deep nested user account photo folder.

                                      I consider this a mistake by the user, there's no need to bury photos that deep, my photos are in D:\Photos.

                                       

                                      I understand that the default is to put the photos into the Windows folder that is under your user name; and I also claim that making regular backups is mandatory, in this case then changing systems isn't a problem, you'd have to have backups anyway. But some people never make backups, a terrible mistake.

                                       

                                      In the real world, people do make these mistakes, and I feel bad about that.

                                       

                                      But you seem to be implying (if I understand you properly) that because people make mistakes, they shouldn't use the tool (Lightroom or PSE) properly. I think just the opposite, we need to instruct people on how to properly use these tools so that these mistakes don't happen, and people get the benefit of these tools.

                                      Once you make some silly mistake messing with the system, your username changed, and hoops, there is another photofolder created. Sure, PSE still knows where your Photo is, but you do not. Now you make a backup if your current user folder - guess what will happen to the old one...

                                      Again, people who use PSE or Lightroom properly don't have these problems, and they shouldn't be "messing with the system" as you described. And you can indeed find out from either PSE or Lightroom where your photos are located, that's why we use databases, the database can remember even when humans cannot. The database will tell you where the photo is. If you make backups of everything using the PSE backup tool, it will make backups of all of your photos, regardless of where the photos are located.

                                      • 16. Re: Lightroom and elements crossover question
                                        joachims25232702 Level 1

                                        The numerous posts from people having lost their photos seems to speak another language.