18 Replies Latest reply on Mar 9, 2016 1:27 PM by Bruce Lull

    importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom

    Bruce Lull Level 1

      I am a long time user of Photoshop Elements (from Album 1) and have decided to try Lightroom. I have tried several methods of adding the photos to a catalog with many problems. I could use some help on this before I trash this program.

       

      I first tried the obvious Elements catalog import (I am using PSE14 on a Mac with Lightroom Cloud all current). All photos transferred from two Elements catalogs. But I realized that the sort by capture date was completely screwed up. Since I had the identical info in Elements I could compare the photo order and could find no pattern.

       

      I had some tag import issues as well so tried again with a fresh DB after a repair check, forced repair, optimize and finally write metadata to files, then repeat the import. Same issues.

       

      I tried another fresh DB and direct photo import. Different results but sort was worst, probably due to Elements catalog corrections over the years. I also lost version tracking of course which I use. Dead end.

       

      The combined database is fairly large - 53000 items - mostly photos but also small videos in various formats. Results are the same whether I do a single DB or the two combined.

       

      I am guessing that if I had started with this program then the results might have been different, but it certainly seems that I have tried all reasonable paths (including a couple of long chat sessions with tech support). I am not doing anything that weird so either Lightroom is buggy or I am SOL.

       

      Any insight is appreciated. I have seem some posts about similar issues but they seemed pretty old and probably are no longer valid.

       

      Thanks in advance for any assistance.

        • 1. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
          dj_paige Level 9

          I first tried the obvious Elements catalog import (I am using PSE14 on a Mac with Lightroom Cloud all current). All photos transferred from two Elements catalogs. But I realized that the sort by capture date was completely screwed up. Since I had the identical info in Elements I could compare the photo order and could find no pattern.

          The command File->Upgrade Photoshop Elements Catalog is the proper way to upgrade your PSE catalog. Is that what you did? (you aren't specific)


          If so, you should be able to sort the photos in Lightroom by using the command View->Sort->Capture Date. Did you do that? (you don't state that you did that)

          • 2. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
            Bruce Lull Level 1

            I did both on the first attempt (and all later catalog imports) so it does not help.

             

            I realize I also did not mention that I added the capture date to the display on the grid view and I can see that the order is incorrect even according to the Lightroom data.

            • 3. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
              dj_paige Level 9

              Show us a screen capture like this

               

              2016-02-27 10_51_56-Lightroom.jpg

              • 4. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                Bruce Lull Level 1

                There are two photos with manual dates of 1985 right before shots from 2016 and after 2000 and 2001. The sort is capture time Ascending, The 1985 dates are the very earliest dates in the set so they should be at the bottom. PSE14 has the correct sort in the original catalogs and the skater shots from 1985 are at the bottom.

                Screen Shot 2016-02-27 at 11.00.23 AM.jpg

                • 5. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                  dj_paige Level 9

                  I believe there is a bug with manual capture dates.

                  Lightroom 5 will not sort scanned photo properly

                   

                  Are the rest of the photos in the proper order?

                  • 6. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                    Bruce Lull Level 1

                    No but I think most camera-created files are OK.

                     

                    It may well be that the issue is a manual override date bug. I have used Elements (or earlier Album) for a long time and at times have needed to fix issues in the less stable early versions. With the number of photos this is impossible to determine.

                     

                    I got my first digital in 2001 and items that sort "before" my first photo seem limited to the Skype screenshots, .MOV, .3gp, .mp4, .png with only a few .jpg which I know have incorrect dates.

                     

                    If there is a known bug then I can probably live with that, hoping they will eventually fix the app, although it seems that the issue may be pretty old. I thought I saw similar items around 2008 in some posts.

                     

                    I can live with (but not like) a limited impact bug but since Elements works correctly it seemed surprising that the "pro" app was not able to do so.

                     

                    BTW: As a retired software developer I know bugs cannot be eliminated (although this does seem fixable at first glance since Lightroom clearly knows the date/time). I like to have some idea of the impact  so I can work around.

                     

                    Has Adobe indicated they are aware of a problem?

                    • 7. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                      dj_paige Level 9

                      Has Adobe indicated they are aware of a problem?

                      I have no idea.

                       

                      You should submit your own bug report (and read the rest of the bug report thread). The link is at the bottom of the thread I mentioned.

                      • 8. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                        Bruce Lull Level 1

                        Following some of the posts gave me a workaround:

                         

                        I selected all videos and then Metadata/Edit capture time, then <Change> leaving the default action as it was.

                         

                        I did the same thing for the other items sorting earlier what I thought was my oldest capture date and did the same thing.

                         

                        Now the oldest dates are at the bottom.

                         

                        It seems that Lightroom sort is not as aware of the capture date values as they should be. I would rate this as a bug since the sort should match the display.

                         

                        Thank you. I will mark this as answered: There is both a bug and a workaround.

                        • 9. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                          Bruce Lull Level 1

                          I was wrong. I found a few photos that had seemed to be corrected but which had slipped into the middle of the pack with incorrect dates so it took a while for me to find that the problem had just taken a new path.

                           

                          I corrected one (a JPEG) from 2016 to 2006 and lo and behold it sorted as earlier than the 1985 dates which are my earliest in Elements. This is clear bug in the current Lightroom and one that been around for a while so far as I can tell.

                           

                          There is a clear and to me a fatal bug in Lightroom and I would rather use Elements which can smoothly handle manual capture dates which is a feature I use heavily (such as scanning in photos and setting the "real" date). In the screenshot, the first two photos are 2000, the skaters are 1985 and the price tag 2006.

                           

                          I see no reason to pursue the issue. Lightroom has a log of good features but I use tags extensively and I find PSE14 more manageable (except for  idiotic handling of Event and Place tags for those not having all GPS tagged items - but I can overcome that.). Except for this bug I would retain Lightroom because of a bunch of features that I do like.) Ah well.

                           

                          PS: Photoshop Album and successor Elements had many bugs that I fought over the years. If I did not have Elements available then I would probably persist.

                           

                          Thanks for trying.

                          Screen Shot 2016-02-28 at 3.54.03 PM.jpg

                          • 10. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                            joachims25232702 Level 1

                            Just asking to make sure, but you almost certainly tried this already: Did you try "user defined" sort order after importing the PSE catalog into LR? This worked for all my sorted photos. Should that work, then you can give all photos a new sequence number in LR so they memorize their order forever.

                            • 11. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                              Bruce Lull Level 1

                              I don't see a "user defined" option for sorting other than a "Custom Order" option that is not highlighted except when I have a single folder selected.

                               

                              The collection has 53,400 photographs so I cannot see resorting manually and a drag reorder attempt says "does not work for the selected source" which includes multiple folders and subfolders.

                               

                              Am I missing something? I have not used Lightroom long and many choices are context sensitive making things tricky to find.

                              • 12. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                                dj_paige Level 9

                                In the All Photographs view of Lightroom, there is no user custom (user-defined) order.

                                 

                                The Custom order is possible in regular collections (not smart collections) and in folders.

                                 

                                Are you missing something ... I think so. There are much more powerful ways to organize that by date order, and Lightroom excels at organizing by keywords and other metadata. I have virtually no use for having photos in date order, because when I want to call up my scanned photos from Brazil, I do not try to scroll around until I come to the photos from the year 1998 (and I'm guessing that was the year, I really don't remember and if I have remembered wrong, it will take a long time for me to find these photos by date). Instead I find those photos by having Lightroom call up all photos with the keyword Brazil. The whole process of finding these Brazil photos doesn't even take 10 seconds, with virtually zero chance of not finding them or struggling to find them, and the extremely difficult part of memorizing what year/month/day the photos was taken isn't a part of the process.

                                 

                                There is also the Filter bar, which allows you to call up your photos by Year, or by Year/Month, or by Year/Month/Date, and again the fact that the ordering is incorrect shouldn't be an impediment to finding the photos. This includes photos which were scanned an for which a capture date was entered manually.

                                • 13. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                                  Bruce Lull Level 1

                                  Actually, as a long time Elements user, I know and like tags (which I think are better implemented there). The problem with Lightroom for me is that I sometimes want to see related photographs and these tend to be most easily found if they are in date order.

                                   

                                  My problem with light room is that the capture date is frequently correct on the photo but Lightroom does not use the same information for the sort as for the display.

                                  • 14. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                                    dj_paige Level 9

                                    Yes there is a bug that prevents some files from being ordered properly in date order.

                                     

                                    You can use the Filter Bar, as I explained, to call up your photos by Year, or by Year/Month, or by Year/Month/Date.

                                    • 15. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                                      Bruce Lull Level 1

                                      We are in agreement - there is a bug concerning the ordering by capture date and there are workarounds for those who want to use Lightroom. I have the impression that this is a long term problem and do not expect a fix soon. I have spoken to three support people on this and they seemed unaware of the problem (waiting for a call back from number 3 that was promised for yesterday.) I gave her this thread so perhaps it will help them find the problem.

                                      I keep my files in event and year folders and that helps a bit. For now, I will continue using Photoshop Elements which seems to be more correct - although even there I find an occasional problem. The interface for tags is better there and I really like Element's ability to show folder hierarchy which I have not found in Lightroom where the folder display is "flat".

                                       

                                      Adobe: It would be helpful if the displayed capture date was consistent with the sort. Better of course would be to fix the sort to match the display.

                                      • 16. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                                        dj_paige Level 9

                                        Lightroom shows folder hierarchy.

                                        • 17. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                                          joachims25232702 Level 1

                                          You are right. It seems that "Custom order" only appears for collections and only where the user has ordered photos manually. I sort all my photos by date, I would not want to do it otherwise. I did this for over 10 years with scans only. As they have no date, I had to sort them manually. That works better in PSE as you can see two collections simultaneously. I did not notice the time-stamp bug while moving to LR because, as said, my sides where sorted manually anyway (and LR kept that sort order during the catalog imports. I am very glad it did that)

                                          • 18. Re: importing catalog from Elements to Lightroom
                                            Bruce Lull Level 1

                                            Adobe called today and acknowledged that they have a bug that they can replicate. Improves the chances that they will be able to fix things.

                                             

                                            Thanks for your help folks!