11 Replies Latest reply on Mar 8, 2016 6:36 AM by trshaner

    HDR

    JapanMike

      I've been trying to produce HDR composites with DNG files from the Leica MM but don't seem to be getting usable results. Does HDR only work with colour?

        • 1. Re: HDR
          JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I don't know if there is an issue with working with black-and-white images. But you might consider trying to get the HDR merge first, and then use the black and white adjustments in Lightroom to convert the image to black and white. That method has worked for me.

          • 2. Re: HDR
            JapanMike Level 1

            Thanks but the problem is that the DNG files are B&W only, the Leica MM doesn't take colour (full name Leica M Monochrom). Sorry for not being clear regarding the issue.

            • 3. Re: HDR
              JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              No, that just shows my ignorance. Are the images shot at different exposure settings?

              • 4. Re: HDR
                JapanMike Level 1

                Yes, I've tried a few combinations of between 3 and 5 images using exposure bracketing... again, different step sizes: 0.5, 1 and 2ev. I've been merging to 32bit by the way, the original files are 12bit monochrome.

                • 5. Re: HDR
                  JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  I'm not quite sure what to tell you. I just converted images taken with my Nikon to black-and-white, and did an HDR merge. Lightroom did the merge as expected. In the Lightroom HDR dialogue that appears after the images are merged, do you have the auto-tone option selected?

                  • 6. Re: HDR
                    trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    The issue is that the Leica M Series bodies do not couple electronically with with the lens settings.

                     

                    LR/ACR Pano Merge Blending Glitch

                     

                    https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lr-acr-merge-to-panorama-has-proble m-blending-some-files-from-leica-m9-camera?rfm=1

                     

                    This was fixed in LR 6.1 and CC 2015.1:

                     

                    LR/ACR Merge to Panorama has problem blending some files from Leica M9 camera | Photoshop Family Customer Community

                     

                    ....broken again in a subsequent update, and then supposedly fixed now with LR 6.4 and CC 2015.4. What version of LR are you running?

                     

                    LR/ACR Pano Merge Blending (Again..)

                    • 7. Re: HDR
                      JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I'm impressed with your knowledge. Where do you get all this information?

                      • 8. Re: HDR
                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Jim I worked with the OP (Jim Stewart) at this link Re: LR/ACR Pano Merge Blending Glitch to identify a similar problem with Merge to Panorama using a Leica M9 camera. You can jump to this reply in the referenced post, which explains what's happening. Since the Leica M Series camera bodies do not couple electronically with the lens, LR "calculates" the As Shot aperture busing the measured light-level, shutter speed, and ISO setting in EXIF data. The calculated aperture value for one or more image files may be incorrect, which leads to issues with multi-image functions like merge to panorama or HDR. This was supposedly fixed in LR 6.4 and CC 2015.4.

                        • 9. Re: HDR
                          JapanMike Level 1

                          I think that might be it - the incorrect recording of aperture (no recording?) in the DNG file. Playing with some pictures I took a while ago, I do have a few that work fairly well.  I wonder if the DNGs could be hacked? So long as they are all the same aperture it should be fine. Nobody cares what the "actual" aperture was... other than maybe for lens corrections. Mind you, I shoot most outdoor panoramas at similar apertures anyway (I only close the lens right down when I want to spend the afternoon doing spot removal).

                           

                          Out of interest, panoramas are never a problem and have never been a problem (e.g. http://wp.me/p3W4TS-sw). Maybe this is a MM thing, as against a colour M9 issue?

                           

                          I'm running the latest version of CC by the way: 2015.4.


                          Do you know the pluses and minuses of HDR in LR vs HDR in PS? I know that PS has 32bit colour depth. I was wondering if that might make a significant difference in a composite with a lot of shadow detail at different levels? Also the output from LR is a DNG... how is that done? A bit of a hack or a genuine combination of several DNGs?


                          This started as an "it doesn't work" question and seems to be going off in all sorts of directions - thank you for the help so far!

                           

                          I'll also experiment a little more and let you know what happens.

                          • 10. Re: HDR
                            JapanMike Level 1

                            thanks Trshaner - that appears to have been the problem. I have updated the "guessed" aperture and everything seems pretty good.  It seems to be somewhat by degree of error in the guess.

                            • 11. Re: HDR
                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              JapanMike wrote:

                               

                              I think that might be it - the incorrect recording of aperture (no recording?) in the DNG file.

                              The Leica M Series digital cameras do not have mechanical or electronic coupling to determine the lens aperture setting. Instead it uses a separate built-in light meter AND the image sensor light level to "estimate" the lens aperture setting. ERGO: The Aperture value may be wrong in one or more images shot for an HDR or panorama.

                               

                              JapanMike wrote:

                              I wonder if the DNGs could be hacked? So long as they are all the same aperture it should be fine. Nobody cares what the "actual" aperture was... other than maybe for lens corrections.

                              LensTagger plugin will allow you to do this inside LR: Re: LR/ACR Pano Merge Blending Glitch

                               

                              JapanMike wrote:

                              Out of interest, panoramas are never a problem and have never been a problem (e.g. http://wp.me/p3W4TS-sw). Maybe this is a MM thing, as against a colour M9 issue?

                               

                              I'm running the latest version of CC by the way: 2015.4.

                               

                              The panoramas you created in the past all had very similar aperture values recorded in EXIF and did not show seams in the pano...you just got lucky! This appears to be fixed in CC 2015.4. Not sure how Adobe did it other than to ignore the aperture EXIF data. Obviously, this would not work with Merge to HDR!

                               

                              JapanMike wrote:


                              Do you know the pluses and minuses of HDR in LR vs HDR in PS? I know that PS has 32bit colour depth. I was wondering if that might make a significant difference in a composite with a lot of shadow detail at different levels? Also the output from LR is a DNG... how is that done? A bit of a hack or a genuine combination of several DNGs?

                               

                              LR HDR uses16 bit half-precision floating point values as explained by Eric Chan: Adobe DNG HDR Format, Part 1 | Pro Photographer Tech (ProTogTech)

                              IEEE 754r Half Floating Point Format.svg

                              So what are the trade-offs?

                               

                              1) It only provides a dynamic range of 30 EV (i.e. F Stops), which as Eric Chan has explained is very unlikely to be a limitation with real-world HDR photographic images.

                               

                              2) It only provides 10 bit/color precision and not 16 bit/color. Since there are no printers or monitors with more than 10/bit color this is not a limitation!

                               

                              From my experience LR's HDR DNG seems to do a better job of recovering highlights than PS's HDR Pro 32 bit TIFF. I'm not complaining!

                               

                              Another pro for LR's Photo Merge to HDR is that it applies NO Develop settings to the bracketed image files. Merge to HDR Pro applies White Balance, Sharpening, and Camera Calibration Profile to the bracketed TIFF image files that open in PS. It is "baked-in" whether you like it or not in the 32bit HDR image file. With LR Photo Merge you are applying White Balance, Sharpening, and Camera Calibration Profile to the 16bit Float HDR DNG file's raw data (totally non-destructive editing). In addition the LR 16bit Float HDR DNG file is much smaller than the destructive edited PS 32bit HDR TIFF file.


                              I've also discovered an issue with PS's HDR Pro concerning applying Color NR to the 32bit HDR TIFF. YMMV!


                              Read here:

                               

                              Re: What is HDR really doing?

                               

                              ...and here:

                              Re: What is HDR really doing?