8 Replies Latest reply on Mar 17, 2016 6:59 AM by trshaner

    LR Sharpening - a technical question

    jimmsp

      I generally do my capture sharpening in LR with a small value of sharpening (~25) and a reasonable sized mask (~50) depending on the subject.
      Then I want to do some creative sharpening on parts of the photo, so I move to the adjustment brush.
      Even with Automask engaged, I often slop over the object with the brush. Some of this is me, some is automask. It gets to be painful sometimes to erase the overflow (envision small branches against a sky). So my question - does the mask I use for the capture sharpening in step 1 carry over to the adjustment brush in step 2 ?
      If it did, it would save me a lot of erasing. But I would probably have to pay more attention to the details of the original mask.

        • 1. Re: LR Sharpening - a technical question
          Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

          Not sure what you mean by the Mask I use in step one. If you are talking about the Detail section that has Sharpening, Radius, Detail and Masking all of that is Global and only masks out what LR feels shouldn't be sharpened. It does not carry over to the adjustment brush. I have found it is best to leave the Auto Mask off for the initial step and then apply it when erasing what adjustment you need erased.

          If you want it to be Perfect you will need to use varying sizes of brushes. Larger for big areas and go Small for the edges of what you want sharpened.

           

          Auto mask only works with the initial click of the brush. It samples that color and only applies the adjustment to that color. But if the initial brush is large it might take in other colors. It is Hit and Miss. That is why they included the erase feature.

          • 2. Re: LR Sharpening - a technical question
            trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            jimmsp wrote:

             

            So my question - does the mask I use for the capture sharpening in step 1 carry over to the adjustment brush in step 2 ?
            If it did, it would save me a lot of erasing. But I would probably have to pay more attention to the details of the original mask.

            That's a good question. I had to run a test to see if the Detail panel Mask over-rides the Local Adjustment Brush when applying additional Sharpening. In order to see the 'Mask'  hold down the ALT key in the Detail panel. This also works for the Radius and Detail controls, and the Basic panel controls. If an area is completely masked out (i.e. Black with ALT Key) the Local Adjustment Brush Sharpening is not applied to that area.

             

            So the answer is yes, if you paint in additional Sharpening with the Adjustment Brush on tree branches AND the sky behind is masked (i.e. Black in the Detail panel with ALT key) only the branches will receive extra sharpening. In this case there is NO need to use Auto Mask, which as mentioned has it's own issues. BTW- Holding down the ALT key will invoke the eraser mode  of the Adjustment Brush.

             

            As an FYI if you apply negative Sharpening with the Adjustment Brush set to -50 it will remove ALL sharpening applied in the Detail panel. If you use a setting of -51 to -100 it will further soften the image (blur) beyond what it looks like with out any Detail panel Sharpening (i.e. Amount = 0).

            • 3. Re: LR Sharpening - a technical question
              Bob McA Level 1

              My test did not support your statment: "If an area is completely masked out (i.e. Black with ALT Key) the Local Adjustment Brush Sharpening is not applied to that area."

               

              Did you look at the Bush at 1:1?  The way I tested was to drive the sharping to the max on the negitive side while looking at it at 1:1.  All areas brushed were effected without regard to a strong mask in the Detail panel.

              • 4. Re: LR Sharpening - a technical question
                Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                I just tested and I see the same thing trshaner sees. When an area is masked off by mask, the local adjustment doesn't do anything. I did this looking 1:1.

                • 5. Re: LR Sharpening - a technical question
                  Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Do note that if you have sharply contrasting content like branches against a sky, the mask will never mask those no matter how high the masking setting. You will always get a few pixels around the branches where the sharpening will not be masked out.

                  • 6. Re: LR Sharpening - a technical question
                    Bob McA Level 1

                    My first test was with the brush sharpening set to -100 and the Detail panels Mask set at 100.  After your reply, I tested further.  If the Brush’s sharpening is moved in a positive direction, I see the effect of the mask on the brush, BUT, if the Brush sharpening is moved in a negative direction, the mask did not show any limitations on the effect of the Brush applying a negative sharpening.


                    Thanks for your follow up.


                    Bob Mc

                    • 7. Re: LR Sharpening - a technical question
                      jimmsp Level 1

                      Bob summarized: My first test was with the brush sharpening set to -100 and the Detail panels Mask set at 100.  After your reply, I tested further.  If the Brush’s sharpening is moved in a positive direction, I see the effect of the mask on the brush, BUT, if the Brush sharpening is moved in a negative direction, the mask did not show any limitations on the effect of the Brush applying a negative sharpening.

                       

                      This appears to be the conclusion of most of the responders.  Thanks to all for their responses and tests.

                       

                      Jim

                      • 8. Re: LR Sharpening - a technical question
                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        The Adjustment Brush contains an undocumented "Blur" capability when using Sharpening settings of -51 to -100.  As stated in my reply #2., "If you use a setting of -51 to -100 it will further soften the image (blur) beyond what it looks like with out any Detail panel Sharpening (i.e. Amount = 0)."

                         

                        This is totally separate from the Sharpening function and should only be used to intentionally blur an area of the image: Blurring Backgrounds in Lightroom | Laura Shoe's Lightroom Training, Tutorials and Tips

                         

                        If your objective is to remove some or ALL of the Detail panel Sharpening in an area use an Adjustment Brush Sharpening setting of -1 to -50. Also consider adding +Noise slider setting with the same Adjustment Brush pin to further reduce noise in that area. This will help preserve detail, which would otherwise be lost using a brush Sharpening setting of -50 to -100.