31 Replies Latest reply on Apr 1, 2016 3:36 PM by trshaner

    Losing my work from Develop to Library

    carlg59573442

      Hi folks, i am trialing Lightroom for a month.  I adjust my astro pics in the "Develop" section using the tone curve which really highlights the stars.  When i am happy with the results i switch to the "Library" section only to find that the work i have done on the stars is not carried over.  IF i switch back to "Develop the stars look great again.  I want to export the pics with the changes i made with the tone curve but i lose all the work when i switch back to "Library".  Is there a setting i dont know about?  Thanks in advance.

        • 1. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
          Chetna Srivastava Adobe Employee

          Hi carlg,

           

          Go to Lightroom Preferences > Performance > uncheck "use graphics processor" > relaunch Lightroom and then, check.

           

          Regards,

          Chetna

          • 2. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
            carlg59573442 Level 1

            Hi, Chetna

             

            Just tried that but its still the same

             

            Regards Carl

            • 3. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
              carlg59573442 Level 1

              I hit the Lightroom icon on my desktop and it launches, automatically goes to the last page i was previously on.  Regardless of whether or not i import a new catalog or use an existing one the changes made with the Tone Curve in Develop are never carried over into Library.

              • 4. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                dj_paige Level 9

                I don't know what size thumbnails you are looking at in the Library module, but sometimes tone curve changes (and other specific changes) are difficult to see in the thumbnails. If you go to loupe view in the Library Module (select the photo and press E), do you see your changes?

                • 5. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                  carlg59573442 Level 1

                  Hi, its not the thumbnails that i am looking at. Its the full size image.  I highlight the stars so they really pop using the tone curve and then i switch to Library and the same photograph loses the changes i made with the tone curve.  If i switch back to develop the stars are how i left them.  All i want to do is export the pics with the changes i made using the tone curve but they vanish.

                  • 6. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                    dj_paige Level 9

                    All i want to do is export the pics with the changes i made using the tone curve but they vanish.

                    And what do you get when you export using File Format set to JPG? Do you get the image with changes or without changes?

                    • 7. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                      avinashm37501878

                      Hi Carlg,

                      Is it happening for all images or a particular image/set of images? Can you share a sample image on which you are seeing this issue ?

                       

                      Please try to directly export from Develop module by right clicking on image and choosing Export. Let us know if you see applied settings on exported images or not, when you export from Develop module directly.

                       

                      Thanks

                      Avinash

                      Adobe Lightroom Team

                      • 8. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                        dj_paige Level 9

                        avinashm37501878 wrote:

                         

                        Hi Carlg,

                        Is it happening for all images or a particular image/set of images? Can you share a sample image on which you are seeing this issue ?

                         

                        Please try to directly export from Develop module by right clicking on image and choosing Export. Let us know if you see applied settings on exported images or not, when you export from Develop module directly.

                         

                        Thanks

                        Avinash

                        Adobe Lightroom Team

                        Hello, Avinash, are you implying that there is some different code used when you Export from the Develop Module compared to exporting from the Library Module, and that we should see different results???

                        • 9. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                          carlg59573442 Level 1

                          Sorry but now do i check if the File Format is set to JPG?

                          • 10. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                            dj_paige Level 9

                            It's a setting in the Export dialog box, next to File Format

                            • 11. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                              carlg59573442 Level 1

                                I am in Develop, then i right click on the thumbnail of the pic i want to export and a menu appears, i press export and a window appears in the center of the screen with Export location and File Naming Etc, am i in the right place?

                              • 13. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                carlg59573442 Level 1

                                I have found file settings and it is set to JPEG, is that what you mean?

                                • 14. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                  dj_paige Level 9

                                  File Format should be set to JPG

                                  • 15. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                    carlg59573442 Level 1

                                    Hi, cant show an image because the changes disappear so there is nothing to show.  I exported directly from the Develop section and i have checked and once exported the changes have disappeared, the stars have lost the changes i made using Tone Curve.

                                    • 16. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                      carlg59573442 Level 1

                                      I have File Settings, then underneath "Image Format" then a drop down menu and the list is JPEG, PSD, TIFF, DNG and original.  I have JPEG ticked.

                                      • 17. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        carlg59573442 wrote:

                                         

                                        I adjust my astro pics in the "Develop" section using the tone curve which really highlights the stars.  When i am happy with the results i switch to the "Library" section only to find that the work i have done on the stars is not carried over.

                                        This is often caused by using a high Sharpening Amount setting and/or insufficient Luminance Noise Reduction with high ISO setting image files. In the Develop module use 1:1 Zoom View and adjust the Sharpening and Noise Reduction controls so that noise is NOT present in the image. If unsure how to make these adjustments try using the below settings and see if the Develop module Tone Curve changes carry-over to the Library module Loupe view. Try using both Fit and 1:1 Zoom views.


                                        • 18. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                          Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          trshaner has the right answer. The zoomed-out view in Develop is NOT accurate with respect to noise reduction and sharpening and this especially impacts star images because to the noise reduction algorithms they just look like noise. The library view is actually more accurate zoomed out in this case. In Develop, you can only accurately judge what happens at 1:1 for fine-detailed images so make sure you check that.

                                           

                                          A second issue is that in Library the image is a bit softer than an actual final export because there is no output sharpening applied at the image size you are looking at and a different scaling algorithm is used for display than is used in export. If you export to a smaller size and use appropriate output sharpening, you'll see that the final result is somewhere in between what you see in Library and Develop. If you upload your images to a website service that scales the image for you all bets are off in this respect as you will be dependent on what sharpening the website does and what scaling algorithm they use.

                                           

                                          For most images this is all just a subtlety and not many people will be able to see any difference, but for starry sky images these issues can have major impact so best to be aware and check.

                                          • 19. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                            carlg59573442 Level 1

                                            Hi, just tried all that and the same thing happens.  I gave up trying to get the desired effect using the Develop Tone Curve and instead pushed the Clarity up to 100% in Develop.  This had the desired effect and gave me the same effect of really making the stars stand out, however, even this did not carry over to Library and would not remain once directly exported!?

                                            • 20. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                              Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              If you look at your image 1:1 and switch to library do you see anything change?

                                              • 21. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                                carlg59573442 Level 1

                                                Yes i just switched to 1.1 and then Library and there was no change whilst it was zoomed in.  Then i came out of zoom and the stars disappeared again after about a second delay.

                                                • 22. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                                  carlg59573442 Level 1

                                                  I then tried to export whilst zoomed n but again the effects are gone when i have  a look at the exported shot.

                                                  • 23. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                                    Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    The disappearing stars when zooming out is normal. Your screen is simply not high enough resolution to show them on a single pixel and the scaling down will necessarily average pixels for displaying which will tend to make them less obvious. This is just simple math. Unfortunately, the Develop module in the zoomed out view uses a less good scaling method than the previews in Library to speed up the editing. It subsamples the raw file and therefore only calculates a subset of pixels. Because this will prevent the code from averaging out pixels for display, this tends to exaggerate very fine detail to a degree that is not real and so with images like this do not trust the zoomed-out Fit or Fill Develop view. You should trust 1:1 and you should trust the Library view with those. Another trick is to use a much higher resolution display.

                                                     

                                                    For the export, are you applying enough export sharpening? That is also essential for images such as this if you scale at export. If you do not scale but look at the image using some other viewer, be aware that those viewers again have different ways of scaling down and that can lead to very different appearances depending on what program you use. You will see for example if you open in Photoshop and zoom to an odd zoom ratio (e.g. 33% or 1:3) that it will appear far sharper than at a even zoom ratio (e.g. 25% or 1:4). This happens because Photoshop uses a different scaling algorithm at different zoom ratios.

                                                    • 24. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                                      Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                      carlg59573442 wrote:

                                                       

                                                      I then tried to export whilst zoomed n but again the effects are gone when i have  a look at the exported shot.

                                                      It makes absolutely no difference what view you are in for the export. The export is always rendered from the raw file using the settings applied in Develop. The way this works is that it renders the raw file at full size using all the settings you set in Develop (i.e. it will be exactly like the 1:1 view). It will then scale this down to the size you set in the export module. This ALWAYS softens the image because you lose detail. You can compensate a bit for this using output sharpening. Again, if you do not scale at export, it will depend very much on the viewer application what your image will look like. What are you using to view your exports?

                                                      • 25. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                                        carlg59573442 Level 1

                                                        It would seem then that Lightroom is not for me then. I dont really want to spend time adjusting settings to get the stars how i would like them only for all the changes to vanish when exporting them.  Seems very odd to me that a program designed for altering pics lets you do so but then does not allow you to export them with the changes. Its a shame because the pics look great in develop but i know i cant export them like that now. 

                                                        I export all my pics into my pictures library in Windows.

                                                        • 26. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                                          Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          Well, the difference should be really minor. I just tried it with some starry night images on my machine and I can barely see any difference between Develop and Library. I can see a bit more of a difference if I make the Lightroom window very small but that is still in line with what you expect. Any raw converter is going to do the same thing as this is a simple consequence of how the math works out. Perhaps you should show some screenshots as it is possible you are seeing something more radical because of another problem.

                                                           

                                                          What are you using to look at the images? Are you scaling down upon export? Are you applying output sharpening when you do,

                                                          • 27. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                                            carlg59573442 Level 1

                                                            thanks for spending the time to help out, its much appreciated.  If you have a starry image in Develop push the Clarity up to 100%, you should see a huge difference in the stars, its not a minor change.  Then switch to Library, and they vanish. Im using the normal loupe size to compare, not thumbnails.

                                                            • 28. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                              carlg59573442 wrote:

                                                               

                                                              It would seem then that Lightroom is not for me then. I dont really want to spend time adjusting settings to get the stars how i would like them only for all the changes to vanish when exporting them.

                                                              Can you upload one of the original camera image files to Dropbox and have as take a look at it? There's obviously something wrong and this is the quickest way to determine what's causing your issue.

                                                              • 29. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                                                Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                Here is a quick example: Clarity at 100 and boosted highlights a bit using curves

                                                                 

                                                                Library (click and zoom to see 1:1 on your screen, otherwise your browser will make the stars disappear by scaling the image down.)

                                                                Library.jpg

                                                                Develop:

                                                                Develop.jpg

                                                                These look basically identical to me but for some slight differences caused by scaling. Certainly not a disappearing of the stars.

                                                                And here is a quick export(again click to zoom to one to one to not have problems caused by the scaling in your browser)

                                                                DSC_8079.jpg\

                                                                • 30. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                                                  carlg59573442 Level 1

                                                                  Hi, its not a problem with the image files, i have tried it using images taken over a long period of time with different cameras.

                                                                  • 31. Re: Losing my work from Develop to Library
                                                                    trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                    carlg59573442 wrote:

                                                                     

                                                                    Hi, its not a problem with the image files, i have tried it using images taken over a long period of time with different cameras.

                                                                    No one said there is a problem with your image files.

                                                                     

                                                                    It most likely is due to one or more Develop settings you are applying in LR and normal loss of image sharpness due to using Fit of Fill view in the Library module. The Library module pyramid Zoom preview settings (1:16, 1:8, 1:4, 1:3, 1:2) provide the most accurate scaled views. When you use Fit or Fill LR uses the closest pyramid preview image and applies a 2nd interpolation to"fit" or "fill" the image in the Loupe window. This 2nd interpolation "softens" the image, especially with images that have luminance noise (i.e. shot at high ISO settings). Instead try using 1:8 1:4, 1:3, 1:2 Zoom view.

                                                                     

                                                                    I repeat, the quickest way to determine what's causing your issue is to upload one of the original camera raw image files with the issue to Dropbox. Better yet Export the file to DNG Image Format, which will contain your LR Develop settings. This will help us to help you.