33 Replies Latest reply on Apr 18, 2016 8:50 AM by ECBowen

    New PC build for Editing

    Simon_No-Office

      Hi,

       

      I'm looking to Build a new PC for heavy editing in Both Premiere and After Effects.

      I looked a lot on these forums and i came to this final solution that fits my budget around 4000 EUR excl BTW

      But maybe someone has some other ideas or recommendations ?

       

      CASE: Corsair Big Tower Carbide Quiet 600Q ATX

       

      Motherboard: Asus eATX Moederbord Rampage V Extreme-U3.1 WiFi, Bluetooth

       

      CPU: Intel Haswell-E Core i7 5960X Extrem 3.0GHz 20MB Box

       

      GPU: Asus Videokaart PCI-e GeForce GTX980TI Matrix 6GB, Platinum

       

      Ram: Corsair 8x8GB, DDR4, 2400MHz, CL14, Vengeance LPX

       

      PSU: Corsair AX860i 860W, Modulair

       

      Storage: - Intel SSD 750 PCI-e, 400GB, NVMe, Half height

                    -Samsung SSD 950 PRO M.2, 512GB, NVMe

                    -Samsung 850 Pro 512GB

                    -Western Digital Harddisk 3.5" Se WD4000F9YZ 4TB


      Extra's:    -Conceptronic PCI-e Adapter 2 Poorts eSATA, 2 Poorts SATA

                     -Asus Blu-Ray driver SBC-06D2X-U 6x, USB

                     -NZXT Card Reader Aperture M 11-in-1, 5.25", USB3.0

                     -StarTech PCI-e Adapter 2 Poorts Firewire


      Monitors: 2 times Dell Monitor U2515H 25"


      Total Price

      excl. BTW (21%)4.191,06



      Thanks in advance!!


      Simon

                    

        • 1. Re: New PC build for Editing
          Casaba88

          64GB of RAM really should have ECC protection, if you are using this for serious work purposes.

           

          You could go with Xeon processor and ECC memory:

           

          Xeon E5-1650 v3 processor, 6 cores at 3.50 GHz

          (4) 16GB DDR4-2133 ECC memory, Samsung part# M393A2G40DB0-CPB

           

          Also, 25" 1440p monitors could be a problem, because some Windows apps don't scale the user interface very well. Everything will be too small.   Better to go with 27" 1440p monitors:

           

          Dell U2715H

           

          Also, you might consider a water-cooled GTX 980 Ti card, it will be much quieter.

          • 2. Re: New PC build for Editing
            Simon_No-Office Level 1

            Thanks Casaba88 for the feedback

            I will take a look at your suggestions.

             

            I wonder what other members think about this ?

            • 3. Re: New PC build for Editing
              chrisw44157881 Level 4

              adobe isn't ready for multi cores being faster than a single overclocked i-7 haswell-E high ghz proc. You're basically wasting money on xeons. Also, ECC is for cloud servers and 3-d farm rendering and is also a waste of money.

              if you're not using raytracing or element 3d, you don't need a 3d card for after effects as its almost entirely cpu based.

              premiere doesn't use gpu for everything either. it's a pretty small list of accelerated effects.

              Learn about effects in Premiere Pro

              some effects- scaling- deinterlacing,- blending modes,- color space conversions

               

              -and since Premiere's lumetri doesn't use the gpu much at all (maybe 15%), you don't need a gpu for that either.

              Premiere won't get much faster after 32GB ram, so 64 is a waste of money. or any cores > 16 is not supported

              AE might improve slightly with 64GB ram though, but its still almost 100% cpu.

               

              Basically, pour as much money you can into a the newest haswell-E i-7, water cool it and overclock the bejeezes out of it.

              if you have any money left, get a 850 pro or 950 pro(m.2) and raid them together. 32GB ram recommended for the price point and maybe at least a nvidia gddr5 4GB 970gtx if you do 4k resizing.

              What kind of PC to use?

              after that, the only thing you'd really need to worry about is disk space as large capacity drives would have to be raided as they are slower than 950 pros.

              • 4. Re: New PC build for Editing
                Casaba88 Level 1

                64GB of DDR4-2133 ECC memory costs about $440, a reasonable price.   Apple's Mac Pro uses ECC memory too.

                 

                Overclocking a cpu is just asking for stability issues, not a good idea for a machine used to earn your living.

                 

                And why raid two 950 Pro m.2 together?   Again that is just asking for trouble, and the speed is not necessary.  A single 950 m.2 is already smoking fast.

                • 5. Re: New PC build for Editing
                  chrisw44157881 Level 4

                  ECC is more stable with error correction, true, its up to the OP.

                   

                  haswells produce more heat than ivy and you can water overclock the multipliers way before doing any voltage increases which can cause instability.

                   

                  and not raid 0, I meant raid 1 ssd's, sorry about the confusion.

                  what's better than super fast? redundant fast!

                  • 6. Re: New PC build for Editing
                    ace41studios Level 1

                    The system he has spec'd out is fine I run a similar setup with a 5930k instead of the 5960X and 64GB of 2133 None ECC Gskill memory even with a 4.5GHz OC @1.3V rock solid stable in renders and scrubbing threw timeline in 4-5K footage. ECC and workstation cards are useless unless you deal with scientific computation, CAD work or physics simulation. The only thing you need to look into is 27 inch monitors for propor 1440p scaling in windows. Also don't forget a water cooler H110I or H110I type of deal for keeping your 5960X in check for OC.

                    • 7. Re: New PC build for Editing
                      chrisw44157881 Level 4

                      hi, thanks for your input. any chance you could tell us your motherboard brand. im guessing asrock

                      • 8. Re: New PC build for Editing
                        ace41studios Level 1

                        Asus Sabertooth X99 used in 3 systems no issues so far only mine is OCed.

                        • 9. Re: New PC build for Editing
                          chrisw44157881 Level 4

                          thanks for your reply.

                          • 10. Re: New PC build for Editing
                            ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                            Do not bother with ECC. Ram is so refined at this point random errors are extremely rare and more often than not take weeks without restarting the system and discharging the ram before you will even have a remote chance for one. The 5960X is by far better than most Xeons with Adobe especially the GPU acceleration due to the far higher clock speed for the Cores and ram. The Xeons are locked at the cores and the ram is locked to 2133. Xeons give a far greater realtime playback load capability ie complexity of the timeline with some codecs like R3D that thread very well but the trade off is much slower render or export speeds. Codecs that don't thread as well will perform far better for both realtime playback and render on the 5960X. I would suggest staying with the 5960X. The ECC is for server operations and not media content production.

                             

                             

                            Eric

                            ADK

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: New PC build for Editing
                              Casaba88 Level 1

                              "The ECC is for server operations and not media content production"

                               

                              Mac Pro uses ECC memory, and it is absolutely designed for media content production.

                               

                              "random errors are extremely rare"

                               

                              Why take any chances on an important project, with an important client?   ECC memory costs just a bit more, and gives you protection, insurance, piece of mind.

                               

                              "The 5960X is by far better than most Xeons"

                               

                              FALSE.  5960x is 8 cores at 3.0 GHz.  Xeons can match that, or even beat that, no problem.

                              • 12. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                Mac Pro's use ECC because they come with Xeons instead of I7's. There is no other reason for it other than allowing cheaper lower grade ram on ECC Reg modules since they have ECC. That is very common with the Dimm production market.

                                 

                                There was a study done years ago on how long a system could memtest before generating 1 random error due to electromagnetism which is what ECC is there for. The test ran memtest 24/7 for 6 months straight before generating a single error. This is why servers use ECC Reg since they normally have to remain up 24/7 365.  Editing stations do not. You can shut them down each night or at will. At most even if a random error is generated which will not likely happen unless you have a bad stick of ram then you just re-export the file. Far less of an issue than corrupting a database that can collapse over time without warning of the corruption.

                                 

                                5960X chips are unlocked which means they can be clocked to whatever the CPU can handle. We ship all 5960X chips at 3.9Ghz for stock for all cores. This gives far greater performance than the Mac Pro's for example which are still i7 Gen 3 versus the I7 Gen 4 for of the X99 platform. The Ram is also unlocked on the I7 chips which allows far greater performance for GPU acceleration especially with apps that scale across more than 1 GPU.

                                 

                                Trading all of these performance gains away just for ECC would not be wise when the only performance gain you can get on Xeons are the number of cores. This helps with Codecs like R3D and Raw that thread very well but not many others where clock speed is far more important for realtime performance due to not using the threads available on the larger Xeons with also have a far lower clock speed. All testing with Adobe and even other Applications such as Davinci have shown this to be the case especially with  media 4K res and above.

                                 

                                Eric
                                ADK

                                • 13. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                  Casaba88 Level 1

                                  "Mac Pro's use ECC because they come with Xeons instead of I7's"

                                   

                                  FALSE.  Xeons can use ECC memory, as an option.  But ECC is not required.

                                   

                                  It's actually the other way around:  Mac Pro uses Xeon processors specifically so ECC memory can be used.   Apple knows that when you are working on an important project for an important client, the last thing you want to worry about is memory errors.

                                   

                                  "The test ran memtest 24/7 for 6 months straight before generating a single error"

                                   

                                  FALSE.   Read this commentary on memory errors:

                                   

                                  << One interesting research comes from the University Of Toronto and is called 'DRAM Errors in the Wild - A large scale field study'. This study monitored the DRAM errors in the thousands of systems of the famous Google server-farm for a period of 2 1/2 years. All those servers were surely perfectly air-conditioned, dust-free and protected from radiations of all kinds. Still they came to the result of 25000 to 70000 FIT (failures per billion device hours) of 'ECC correctable errors' per Megabit of DRAM. This converts into an average of one single-bit-error every 14 to 40 hours per Gigabit of DRAM.>>

                                  • 14. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                    Yes you can use unbuffered ram with Xeons but why would you when ECC Reg gives larger densities at a lower price. Once again ECC Reg offers Dimm manufacturers the option to use lower grade ram on those Dimms. Beyond the random error correction which is extremely rare ECC offers no other benefit. This was the reason the studies were done. I have spoke to Engineers in the East that are actually in the ram fabrication industry and know far more than you or I will about the process and ram fabs. You are incorrect. Apple uses the ECC Reg because they are cheaper period. Lower speed means lower grade. ECC offers even more options for lower grade. Learn the manufacturing market and you realize this quickly.

                                     

                                    You site 1 study that was done by a college. I site studies that were done by industry experts. You go with yours. I will go with mine. BTW that study was on server farms which run 24/7 365 which is what ECC is for. The longer you go without discharging the higher the chance of a random error. Along with this the random error is generated by electromagnetic fields. Guess how many fields are around a Server farm. I will also state we have shipped unbuffered ram on 90+ percent of our systems for 10 years that I have been here. We have yet to see any random errors generated on any client's system. Either the ram tests good or you have a bad stick. Replace the stick any errors go away. It's that simple.

                                     

                                    You just assume false without evidence or what seems any long term experience or even knowledge of the industry and manufacturing. I can say clearly otherwise after almost 20 years in the industry in some fashion and 10 years at ADK alone this time.

                                     

                                    Eric

                                    ADK

                                    • 15. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                      Casaba88 Level 1

                                      "ECC Reg offers Dimm manufacturers the option to use lower grade ram on those Dimms."

                                       

                                      That's got to be the silliest thing I've ever heard!   You are saying that ECC reg memory, expensive and intended for servers, uses low-quality ram because the error-checking will fix errors in this poor quality ram?    Ridiculous!   ECC can only correct single-bit errors, what if the poor quality ram that you speak of has multi-bit errors?   omg too funny!   Eric you are sinking yourself my friend.

                                      • 16. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                        Talk to the Ram fab engineers. Slower speed which almost all ECC Reg Dimm's are compared to the unbuffered equivalents available only require lower grade ram chips. The higher grade chips are used with the unbuffered high speed and high density chips used by enthusiast DIMM manufacturers. In the ram fab industry grade directly equates to cost since the closer to the center of the die the chips are cut the higher grade those chips are due to the gas construction method used to manufacture the die. This also means there is far less surface area to cut chips from in the higher grade core areas of the die. This means far higher cost ie supply and demand. DDR4 2133 for example is jedec spec and also the current clock limited standard for the V3 Xeons. The V4 Xeons increased this to 2400 but not seeing any DDR4 2400 ECC Reg in Disti yet. Since the base Jedec spec is 2133 and so are the ECC Reg Dimms that means they can use the lower grade chips since they only need them to run 2133. The Unbuffered DDR4 are DDR4 3000 or higher at this point which are eating all the Grade A chips especially for 16GB sticks. So how do you think the 16GB ECC Reg were available long before 16GB unbuffered sticks yet at a far lower price point when considering the cost of the peak unbuffered sticks at the time or currently. They do this by using lower grade chips since grade directly equates also to chances for an error. The lower the grade the higher chance for the ram to generate an error. The Higher the grade the less chance for an error. ECC prevents errors so it makes sense to use lower grade ram even with the higher chance for an error. This also allows Manufacturers to go higher density with grades they normally would not which is another pointer as to why ECC Reg normally always has higher density options than unbuffered but still at a lower cost per GB. Ram chip manufacturing and thereby Dimm modules are one of those things you get what you pay for and higher grade directly equates to higher cost with Grade 1A costing the most ie peak value and cost.

                                         

                                        Eric

                                        ADK

                                        • 17. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                          Simon_No-Office Level 1

                                          Thanks guys for al the responses!!

                                           

                                          So where do i begin..

                                           

                                          i think goiing for the 27'' monitor is a good choice due to the scaling of windows. Thanks

                                           

                                          And stay with the Intel Haswell-E Core i7 5960X and put a watercooler on like ace41studios adviced.


                                          About the ram, i googled some more and i also think ECC is not necessairy. I would really like to have 64GB because i love to work in after effects, premiere and maybe photoshop at the same time, so i just want some spare GB of Ram available.

                                          So is it better to use like 4 sticks of 16GB of 8 sticks of 8. (4x16GB would be less stress on the MC (memory controller) than 8x8GB)


                                          Maybe the 980TI is a little overkill and i can use the money for RAM and extra Storage ?


                                          Simon



                                          • 18. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                            Simon_No-Office Level 1

                                            So i made a few choises here, i think i'm almost there.

                                            Only The disk setup i'm not really 100% sure about it.

                                             

                                            CASE: Corsair Big Tower Carbide Quiet 600Q ATX

                                             

                                            Motherboard: Asus eATX Moederbord Rampage V Extreme-U3.1 WiFi, Bluetooth

                                             

                                            CPU: Intel Haswell-E Core i7 5960X Extrem 3.0GHz 20MB Box


                                            Cooler: Corsair Water Cooler Hydro H115i AMD & Intel

                                             

                                            GPU: Asus GeForce GTX980 Strix OC 4GB

                                             

                                            Ram: Corsair 4x16GB, DDR4, 3200MHz, CL16, Vengeance

                                             

                                            PSU: Corsair  RM850i 850W, Modulair, DSP

                                             

                                            Storage: -Samsung SSD 950 PRO M.2, 512GB, NVMe

                                                          - 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1 TB

                                                          -Samsung 850 Pro 512GB

                                                          -Western Digital Harddisk 3.5" Se WD4000F9YZ 4TB


                                            Extra's:    -Conceptronic PCI-e Adapter 2 Poorts eSATA, 2 Poorts SATA

                                                          -Eminent Card Reader EM1079 Intern, 3.5", USB3.0

                                              


                                            Monitors: Dell Monitor U2713H 27"



                                            Anyone some recomondations for the use of the storage ?


                                            Thanks

                                            • 19. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                              Casaba88 Level 1

                                              Are you sure the (4) 16gb Corsair DDR4 modules will work on your X99 chipset motherboard?   They are not on the memory compatibility list on Asus website.

                                               

                                              i7-5960x cpu is $1080, (8) cores x 3.0 GHz = score of 24

                                               

                                              i7-5930K is only $580, (6) cores x 3.5 GHz = score of 21.

                                               

                                              I would get the 5930k, and get GTX 980 Ti instead.

                                              • 20. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                Simon_No-Office wrote:

                                                 

                                                Thanks Casaba88 for the feedback

                                                I will take a look at your suggestions.

                                                 

                                                I wonder what other members think about this ?

                                                I think (actually know) from PPBM testing that going with that single Xeon E5-1650 v3 would be appreciable slower CPU performance than the original choice of your very slightly overclockedi7-5960X.  Also be aware that the new Intel Broadwell-E 10-core upgrade, the i7-6950X chips will become available in June that plug right into that motherboard

                                                • 21. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                  Casaba88 Level 1

                                                  True, the 10-core Broadwell-E is coming, but that chip will cost over $2000.

                                                  • 22. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                    The 5960X with 8 Cores clocked higher is far better for heavy editing workloads especially 4K+ media than the 5930K 6 core. The 10 Core will be even more so. General benchmarks scores do not reflect the realtime load capability difference between the CPU's nor the effect on GPU acceleration or different codecs. AE performance is almost completely decided by cores/threads and ram though codecs and FX used can limit the threading at times.

                                                     

                                                    Eric

                                                    ADK

                                                    • 23. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                      Casaba88 Level 1

                                                      "The 5960X with 8 Cores clocked higher is far better"

                                                       

                                                      5960x cores are normally clocked at 3.0 GHz, far slower than 5930k (3.5 GHz).

                                                       

                                                      To clock them higher means overclocking, which can compromise the stability of the computer.   Not a good idea if you are using the machine to earn your living.

                                                      • 24. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                        Not at all. We ship all 5960X chips at 3.9Ghz because every one of those chips handle that without taking the voltage up much beyond default. The 5930K clocks to 4GHz the same way. Stability is not an issue at all if the clock speeds are in those ranges on any of them.

                                                         

                                                        Eric

                                                        ADK

                                                        • 25. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                          Casaba88 Level 1

                                                          "We ship all 5960X chips at 3.9Ghz"

                                                           

                                                          You ship production machines to paying customers, with a 30% overclock?   I wouldn't feel comfortable with that.  Not at all.

                                                           

                                                          I would rather pay extra for a faster cpu, with ECC ram too.   That is what Apple does on the superb Mac Pro.  Many LA production houses use that machine, and for good reason.

                                                          • 26. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                            Casaba88 Level 1

                                                            "We ship all 5960X chips at 3.9Ghz"

                                                             

                                                            If 5960x chips really were reliable at 3.9 GHz, Intel would sell those chips:  For example:  i7-5970x for $1500.


                                                            Why doesn't Intel sell the chip at that speed, and for more money?

                                                            • 27. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                              ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                              Apple's Mac Pro is still i7 Gen 3 ie 1 or now 2 Generations behind and still with DDR3 which has significantly less performance overall than the current X99 platform with the i7 Gen 4 or now Gen 5 which are the Broadwell chips releasing at this point. So they are sacrificing significant performance, hardware options, and upgradability for OSX. They likely just don't know any better or are willing to sacrifice all of the advantages for OSX and has nothing to do with legacy hardware in the Mac Pro's. Intel bins these chips based on testing with specs set for each model and has been the case for many years. The chips can often clock far outside those spec ranges initially set even from the start of production. However what is the selling point of a K series chip if the overclock options are only 300 or 400MHz if they were shipping 3.9GHz version K chips. If they make a new 5970X chip for example for 3.9GHz and charge far more for it few or none will buy it when you get can the 5960X for allot less and clock to 3.9GHz on every one of them. Hence the reason to do these changes with a new gen release and new die ie Broadwell. The 6950X will be the example of what you suggest except it will be 10 cores so worth the far greater price versus just a higher clock speed 8 core. Our clients pay for performance and stability. You can build a completely stable 1.6Ghz system that wont work well for realtime applications such as media content creation and editing or a completely stable 3.9Ghz system that will work extremely well for realtime applications such as those same editing applications especially with 4K+ media that struggles at full resolution preview on those same Mac Pro's you referenced. Which do you think the editors will want?

                                                               

                                                              Eric

                                                              ADK

                                                              • 28. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                                Simon_No-Office Level 1

                                                                Thanks guys!

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                Does somebody know a Release Date and price for the 6950X ?

                                                                • 29. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                                  May is the only word so far.

                                                                   

                                                                  Eric

                                                                  ADK

                                                                  • 30. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                                    Simon_No-Office Level 1

                                                                    Ok Thanks,

                                                                     

                                                                    Do you think it's worth to wait for ? One month is not to long for a System that needs to last a few years ...

                                                                    • 31. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                                      Mexican_ChiLe

                                                                      Why not the new U2715H ?  instead of the U2713H... just curious

                                                                      • 32. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                                        Simon_No-Office Level 1

                                                                        My mistake, ofcourse the U2715H

                                                                        • 33. Re: New PC build for Editing
                                                                          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                                          Yes though the 10 core will have a higher price point than the 8 Core. Keep that in mind if budget is a concern.


                                                                          Eric

                                                                          ADK