12 Replies Latest reply on Apr 11, 2016 2:26 PM by trshaner

    Capture Sharpening

    Alp Er Tunga Level 1

      Capture sharpening is not like creative sharpening or print sharpening,

      Its main aim is to remove blur coming inherently from the raw capture process.

      So, mostly it is not a subjective decision ... every lens and camera pair, there should be the optimal capture sharpening settings.

       

      Is there any way to attain such an optimal capture sharpening settings with the sliders on the detail panel?

      If so, what is your strategy for finding the optimal capture sharpening point in Lr?

       

      Ps. LR detail panel is there for both capture sharpening and creative sharpening. I don't mean both capture and creative ... excluding creative sharpening, I only mean capture sharpening.

        • 1. Re: Capture Sharpening
          JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I don't know that you can separate them out that way. There is a sharpening tool in the print module and the export module. You might want to consider installing the Nik collection of plug-ins. There are separate tools for capture and output sharpening. The Nik collection is now a free offering from Google.

          • 2. Re: Capture Sharpening
            Per Berntsen Adobe Community Professional

            The general rule for capture sharpening is that it should make the image look reasonably sharp at 1:1, but not too sharp.

            (So - if in doubt, sharpen less)

            It is critical that sharpening and noise reduction and sharpening are always carried out and evaluated at 1:1 view - any other view will be inaccurate and misleading.

            There are no objective rules for how capture sharpening should be done, but I'd say it's done correctly when the finished image (for screen or print) looks right when exported with Standard output sharpening.

             

            I mostly shoot detailed subjects, and  keep the radius slider at 0.5 and use a high Detail value - 50 - 80.

            I normally set Amount to between 30 and 50, depending on the sharpness of the lens.

            Masking is often overlooked, and is unfortunately set to 0 by default.

            I use it for every image, set to at least 50, but usually between 70 and 90.

            Masking will protect flat areas from sharpening, so only edges will be sharpened. This also prevents noise from being sharpened.

            Hold down the Alt key while dragging the slider, white areas will be sharpened, black areas are protected.

             

            These settings may or may not work for you, you have to find out what works best by trial and error.

            Virtual copies are great for comparing different sharpening settings.

            • 3. Re: Capture Sharpening
              Alp Er Tunga Level 1

              Thanks a lot for the inputs.

               

              My question was about creating a sharpening prolife (Lr preset) for the optimal capture sharpening point for a specific camera-lens combination.

              But, it seems that ... there is no way doing this.

               

              For example .. if I take a shot of a very small point and after applying the ideal sharpening settings in Lr, can I use those settings for preparing a sharpening profile in Lr ... could it be used as a reliable hand-made sharpening profile ... or it would be an unnecessary effort? Or ... is there a more sound and exact way of preparing such a capture sharpening profile?

               

              Any idea or help about the procedure ... anyone who has tried such a thing so far?

              • 4. Re: Capture Sharpening
                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Alp Er Tunga wrote:

                Is there any way to attain such an optimal capture sharpening settings with the sliders on the detail panel?

                This may be helpful to explain what each of the Sharpening controls does: Guide to Image Sharpening

                 

                Keep in mind that the "optimum" Sharpening and NR settings will vary based on ISO setting and amount of under-exposure (if any). With higher ISO images you will need to use more conservative Sharpening along with more aggressive Noise Reduction. ERGO High ISO = Lower Image Sharpness.

                 

                Alp Er Tunga wrote:

                If so, what is your strategy for finding the optimal capture sharpening point in Lr?

                Use 1:1 Zoom view and try holding down the ALT key when adjusting the Sharpening sliders. You'll see a B&W image, which makes it easier to see the edge sharpening. At low ISO (100-800) with my Canon DSLRs and lenses I find Sharpening settings of 35, .8, 35, 0 work well and I only change it when editing higher ISO images (>800). Since images are rarely used at full-size the the Export module's Output Sharpening setting has a larger impact on Resized image files. It's best not to overdue Capture Sharpening, which can increase noise even with ISO 100 images and degrade the image quality.

                • 5. Re: Capture Sharpening
                  Per Berntsen Adobe Community Professional
                  I don't know that you can separate them out that way.

                  The sharpening in the Develop module is capture sharpening - it's based on the capture sharpening in the PhotoKit Sharpener plugin for Photoshop, developed by Bruce Fraser, Jeff Schewe and others.

                  I find it excellent, and have never felt the need for any plugins, so I can't comment on the Nik plugin.

                  • 6. Re: Capture Sharpening
                    Alp Er Tunga Level 1

                    trshaner wrote:

                     

                    Keep in mind that the "optimum" Sharpening and NR settings will vary based on ISO setting and amount of under-exposure (if any). With higher ISO images you will need to use more conservative Sharpening along with more aggressive Noise Reduction. ERGO High ISO = Lower Image Sharpness.

                     

                    Does ISO have direct effect on image sharpness?

                    I think that it indirectly affects image sharpness via increased noise.

                     

                    I'm excluding the noise for a moment ... and my aim is only to cancel the combined blur effect of AA filter, optical quality, flare of the system etc. for a given camera-lens combination.

                    So, I think that a single profile can be used for all ISOs ... and in this way, we can know what portion of image blur coming from the variables above, not from the noise.

                    After curing the blur coming from the system variables mentioned above, we may handle the noise more correctly with the noise sliders.

                     

                    Am I thinking wrong?

                    • 7. Re: Capture Sharpening
                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Capture sharpening is sharpening both real image details and artificial image texture from noise.

                       

                      High-ISO noise, which is at the finest pixel level, can easily overwhelm the smallest image details that sharpening would generally bring out, so while you can sharpen the same amount with all ISOs, at higher ISOs you’ll be sharpening the noise, mostly, not the image details, unless you use the Sharpen Masking slider to put non-edges off limits for sharpening.  And even then, the sharpening of only edges in high-ISO images helps keep those edges crisp when noise-reduction is applied as the second step of the Detail enhancement process.

                       

                      Furthermore, manipulating the toning, especially increasing the contrast of the darker areas digitally increases ISO in those areas so they need even less sharpening and more noise reduction.

                       

                      Trying to optimize a single setting for capture sharpening is probably a lost cause unless your ISO is also constant and you use minimal toning of darker areas.

                      • 8. Re: Capture Sharpening
                        Alp Er Tunga Level 1

                        Ok, I see ... thanks a lot.

                         

                        How can I prepare a sharpening profile for a given ISO?

                        Let's say that for ISO 100 ...

                        The method I described in the above post would produce a reliable sharpening profile?

                        • 9. Re: Capture Sharpening
                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          If you compare a high-ISO version of a scene with a low-ISO version, other things like image stillness, aperture and focus being the same, the small details will be obscured by the noise, yes.

                           

                          Try taking a series of test shots, of the same reasonably well-lit landscape, with fine foliage, rock or distant building details, and increase the ISO by 400 between each shot in the sequence, and compare the image details from each, before doing any sharpening or noise-reduction and then after.

                          • 10. Re: Capture Sharpening
                            Alp Er Tunga Level 1

                            Thank you.

                            • 11. Re: Capture Sharpening
                              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              The amount of sharpening that looks good depends on the contrast of the texture of the image.  Hair vs leaves vs skin vs branches against the sky.

                               

                              There might be some scientific way to compute some sort of optimal sharpness using an expensive resolution target but those are generally black and white so I don't know if the results you'd get work with skin or foliage. 

                               

                              Keep in mind that there are usually twice as many green pixels as either red or blue so the sharpness of the same texture of various colors is different due to de-bayering with green having the finest detail and blue usually having the lowest signal-to-noise ratio.

                               

                              The amount of sharpening you do also depends on the amount you're resizing down and the output media:

                               

                              Resizing down needs more noise in the underlying image to keep the edges intact.

                               

                              Printing generally blurs quit a bit so you can get by with little or no noise-reduction whereas displaying on a monitor can usually show every pixel of noise, though if the monitor resolution is high enough you can get by with more noise.

                              --

                              If you shoot a particular kind of scene quite a bit then you might be able to come up with settings that look nice, but I'd expect a sunlit scene will need a different amount of sharpening compared to a cloudy scene even if the subject is the same.

                              • 12. Re: Capture Sharpening
                                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Alp Er Tunga wrote:

                                Does ISO have direct effect on image sharpness?

                                I think that it indirectly affects image sharpness via increased noise.

                                Increasing the ISO setting increases noise in the image file, but there is no loss of image sharpness due to higher noise. In fact it may make an image look sharper, which is an illusion.

                                 

                                Alp Er Tunga wrote:

                                I'm excluding the noise for a moment ... and my aim is only to cancel the combined blur effect of AA filter, optical quality, flare of the system etc. for a given camera-lens combination.

                                That's the problem. With a normal Sharpening setting that works well at say ISO 100-800 noise may still be present after applying Luminance Noise Reduction (NR). Increasing the Luminance NR control to a higher setting will reduce it, but at the same time will smear fine detail in the image. Also the Sharpening and Luminance NR controls "interact." Higher Sharpening settings (especially Detail setting) increases noise and higher Luminance NR decreases Sharpening. This may help: Reduce image noise in Lightroom 5 | Adobe Photoshop Lightroom CC tutorials