13 Replies Latest reply on Apr 21, 2017 9:26 AM by Daystar Mike

    Large table... keeping rows together

    Daystar Mike

      I'm working on a 72 page catalog, growing and shrinking, with a boatload of tabular data in it. As we add and delete items I'm forced to manually realign every page so that I don't have any breaks in the middle of data that needs to stay together. Example table:

       

      Manufacturer
      Model
      Category
      Subhead 1Subhead 2Subhead 3Subhead 4Subhead 5
      Data 1Data 2Data 3Data 4Data 5
      Common Data 1Data 2Data 3Data 4Data 5
      Data 2Data 3Data 4Data 5
      Data 2Data 3Data 4Data 5
      Model
      Category
      Subhead 1Subhead 2Subhead 3Subhead 4Subhead 5
      Data 1Data 2Data 3Data 4Data 5
      Category
      Common Data 1Data 2Data 3Data 4Data 5
      Data 2Data 3Data 4Data 5
      Data 2Data 3Data 4Data 5
      Manufacturer
      Model
      Category
      Subhead 1Subhead 2Subhead 3Subhead 4Subhead 5

       

      Each Manufacturer has multiple Models. Each Model has multiple Categories. Each Category has multiple and random numbers of rows of data which often spans multiple columns, rows, or both columns and rows.

       

      I need to keep ALL rows together from the Category to the next Category, but not including the next Category. I also can't orphan the manufacturer row.

       

      As an added bonus (which I'm sure is not possible) I add another row at the top of each page with "Model (continued)" so the customer doesn't get lost.

       

      I don't immediately see any kind of "keep" or "orphan" options in the table or cell styles. And, from what I know of the Paragraph Style Keep and Orphan options there is no way to keep all "data" rows together except to say keep with the next/previous X number of rows.

       

      I'm doing it the hard way I know. It's a previous employee's file I'm editing and would like to find the easy way.

       

      Thoughts?

       

      Thanks,

       

      Mike

        • 1. Re: Large table... keeping rows together
          BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

          You can manually select the rows that need to stay together (but not the last one) and go to Table > Cell Options > Rows & Columns:

          InDesign CCss_025.png

          You could build this into a cell style, but you'd still need to manually assign it. Based on where you want to use it, I don't see how you can nest the cell style into the table style.

          2 people found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Large table... keeping rows together
            Daystar Mike Level 1

            Hmmm... That'd be a lot of assigning but I'd only have to do it once.

             

            Being an old file and not something I created there are cell styles but I'm not positive they are well thought out and consistently applied.

             

            My other thought was to try Paragraph Styles but I don't know how they work from within a table.

             

            Manufacturer Style (next style model - keep with next)

            Model (next style category - keep with next)

            Category (next style subhead - keep with next)

            Subhead (next style data - keep with next)

            Data (next style same style - keep with next)

            Data Last (manually assigned - next style none - keep none)

             

            My guess is that won't work as I'd like...

             

            Mike

            • 3. Re: Large table... keeping rows together
              BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

              Sadly no, not within the table cells. That would work if they were not in a table.

              • 4. Re: Large table... keeping rows together
                Daystar Mike Level 1

                The Keep Options are NOT available as a style, only manually applied I can use Paragraph Styles in the Cell Style so I'll have to try my Paragraph Keep Options thought...

                • 5. Re: Large table... keeping rows together
                  Daystar Mike Level 1

                  OK, I won't try the Paragraph Keep options...

                  • 6. Re: Large table... keeping rows together
                    BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

                    You are absolutely right about the Keep options missing from Cell Styles. I have a lot of multi-page tables in my life (one might say too many), and I guess I never noticed because in my workflow I apply the keep settings manually as I make the final pass over the table.

                    • 7. Re: Large table... keeping rows together
                      Daystar Mike Level 1

                      So I'm back with a related problem... Sorry it's long but I'll try to give you all the details I can think of.

                       

                      I'm working on the same catalog. Last iteration I used the Cell Options | Keep with Next Row and it worked fabulously even though it did mean a lot of manually checking and unchecking of that box.

                       

                      For this updated catalog I'm trying to do the same thing but running into problems with it NOT keeping with the next row regardless of how that Keep box is checked. This time I've exported the entire table and straightened it out in Excel so it's more easily editable by others. I'm copy/pasting the data from Excel into InDesign.

                       

                      I have 5 Table Cell Styles:

                      Header Make, Header Model, Header Product, Header Year, Body Table. Each Cell Style has a Paragraph Style assigned to the text with the same name as the cell style.

                       

                      Because the data is all new I started with a blank table, adjusted the column sizes, fonts, colors, everything from scratch. A "section" is comprised of ONE "Header Make" row followed by a subsection with Model, Product, Year, and multiple Body Table rows. Each section has multiple subsections. Think Ford | F150 | products ... F250 Super Duty | Products ... Explorer | Products /

                       

                      When I create a section I select ALL rows but the last one and apply the Keep with Next Row Cell Option. Then I copy the above rows, Paste After, to create the next section. A couple times I have copied multiple rows from Excel and pasted them into LESS rows than there is data and manually assigned the appropriate Table Cell Styles. Makes no difference if I do it that way or not.

                       

                      The Keep option works in some places, not in others. I've checked the box and unchecked it and checked it again. No difference. I can copy and paste 15 rows earlier in the document that DO work properly and the Keep option works. But if I delete the rows above that section that works that I just copied then the rows that previously worked no longer work.

                       

                      I've been pulling my hair out for a few hours and have no idea what to do...

                       

                      Thanks,

                       

                      Mike

                      • 8. Re: Large table... keeping rows together
                        BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

                        Is this a table you can share with me via dropbox, Mike? You can put a link to it in your reply (public), or right click my name and send it just to me (private).

                         

                        ~Barb

                        • 9. Re: Large table... keeping rows together
                          Daystar Mike Level 1

                          Of course:

                           

                          Dropbox - 2017 Application Guide P11413 2017-04-18.indd

                           

                          Go to Page 4. The top row should say Lift Kits - Front and Rear with a Chevy/GMC tab on the left. Subheadings below it are Body Lift Kits, Scorpion Shocks, and Rack & Pinion Bushings.

                           

                          Drag the bottom handle for the text frame UP one line and the whole section for Rack & Pinion Bushings moves to the next column. The same happens for Scorpion Shocks and Body Lift Kits. However, when you get up to Lift Kits - Front and Rear moving the text frame handle up simply pushes each line to the next frame.

                           

                          Pull the frame all the way back down and highlight the rows starting at Lift Kits - Front and Rear all the way down to the second to last line in that subsection, 95-98 5" Lift Kit Non-HD Std/Ext/Crew Cab PAPLS100... pull out the Cell Options and you'll see that Keep with Next Row is CHECKED.

                           

                          Here's the method used in getting all this data in there:

                          1. Created the table with a random number of rows, sized the columns and text with some filler text in the table.
                          2. Merged the entire first row into one column (Page 3) and copy/pasted data from the spreadsheet and assigned the "Header Make on Black" cell style (which should apply the "Header - Make" paragraph style.
                          3. Merged the entire second row, copy/pasted data from the spreadsheet, assigned "Header Model on Black" cell style (and Header - Model paragraph style).
                          4. Merged third row, copy/pasted data, "Header Product" style.
                          5. Merged fourth row, copy/pasted data, "Header Year" style.
                          6. Copy/Pasted multiple rows of data and pasted into the following rows, assigned "Body Table" cell style "Table Text" paragraph text.
                          7. Highlighted all but the last row and checked the Keep with Next Row box.

                          From there I would copy and paste all the above rows as necessary for the following sections and then copy/pasted data from the spreadsheet into those cells. The though process being why do I want to merge three rows of data and assign four rows of styles when they are already assigned? Copy/Paste it, right?

                           

                          If you head to page 9 you'll see what I have working which doesn't make a whole lotta sense but... you know... computers...

                          1. Created the table with random number of rows.
                          2. Pasted the entire section for RAM into the table.
                          3. Highlighted ALL rows and assigned "Body Table" cell style.
                          4. Started at row 1 and selected rows, minus the last row in the section where I want it to break if necessary, and checked the Keep with Next Row box. Did the ENTIRE section.
                          5. Started back at row 1 and merged and assigned the appropriate cells for Header Make, Header Model, Header Product, Header Year. Went row by row through this section assigning styles.

                          This appears to work perfectly. Makes no sense to me why. All the styles being assigned are the same in the section that works and the section that doesn't.

                           

                          Let me know if you see anything as what I'm doing now is working but is twice the work vs copy/pasting the main heading rows.

                           

                          Thanks,

                           

                          Mike

                          • 10. Re: Large table... keeping rows together
                            Eternal Warrior Adobe Community Professional

                            I know I'm late to the conversation and you have already put a lot of effort into explaining this > Have to say > I'm more of a visual person... Can I be cheeky enough that I ask you provide some screenshots to better explain what's going weird?

                             

                            I understand what you have written but yeah... I benefit from visuals as well.

                            • 11. Re: Large table... keeping rows together
                              Daystar Mike Level 1

                              You're not really late I just revived last year's thread because it was the same issue misbehaving a little differently.

                               

                              I tried to do a screen shot movie but the free program I have wouldn't save the file for some reason...

                               

                              Here's one page in question:

                              keep01.png

                              When I drag the frame handle on the left page up the whole subsection moves to the next page. Keep with Next Row works for the bottom three sections.

                              keep02.png

                              keep03.png

                              When I get to the top section it does NOT work. The rows are split...

                              keep05.png

                              even though Keep with Next Row is CHECKED.

                              keep06.png

                              • 12. Re: Large table... keeping rows together
                                BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

                                I finally had the chance to look over your table, Mike. The keep settings are working, in that turning them off brings the lines from page 4 back to page 3. I'm guessing there is some backup measure that overrides the keep settings so that the table always has lines that are visible. Potentially, someone could select a 2000 line table and set keep with next on all the rows and then what? And I just played with that... I added a 5000 row table, set all lines to keep with next and nothing moved. I expected a crash, but that didn't happen either. That's my take on this situation. I've seen it in FrameMaker (Adobe's other page layout program) and it gets into trouble.

                                • 13. Re: Large table... keeping rows together
                                  Daystar Mike Level 1

                                  I did some more looking and your theory seems to hold a little water. On page 3, the start of the table, it doesn't work for the first section for, likely, exactly the reason you thought. If I take the first row and make it NOT keep and then pull the window shade up I get just the first line. And, surprisingly, I just realized that the first section on page 4, where it's not working, is actually working properly on page 3. The window is too small for the whole section so it's pushed to page 4.

                                   

                                  For the same reason it apparently can't have a frame with NOTHING in it so it's not allowing those rows to keep.

                                   

                                  I just did another test and took a bunch of rows off page 3, pushing them to page 4. Then pull up the window shade to the previously NOT working section and it works. Because there are rows above it that will leave content in the frame.

                                   

                                  That's seeming to make sense but I'm pretty sure that I had this happen on other pages to rows in the middle of the frame when there was plenty of rows above that would leave content in the frame. Unless I accidentally made ALL rows KEEP and neglected to make the last row NOT keep? That's a possibility since I was doing so much copy/pasting and didn't think that setting held.

                                   

                                  Thanks for looking. I'll report back if I find anything else interesting...

                                   

                                  Mike