7 Replies Latest reply on Apr 20, 2006 4:35 PM by Zee_Marie

    Roundtrip HTML between FW8 & DW8

    Zee_Marie
      I created a pop-up menu in FW a few days ago and added it to the DW site using the Common tool palette, Fireworks HTML. To edit the PUM I would click on one of the main buttons, click on the FW logo in the Properties palette which would then launch FW and ask me if I would like to work from the original .png file (yes). I edited the file, saved the changes, clicked on the Done button and the changes were reflected in the DW file.

      Last night and today, I followed the same procedure (at least six times) as above. The changes did show in the FW file, but did not in the DW file. When I would go back to FW, the changes were gone, but when I loaded the file in FW fresh, the changes were in fact saved to the file. Frustrated, I deleted the PUM in the DW file and inserted the new Fireworks HTML. The problem with this was I had to repeat this for all my website pages.

      1. What am I doing wrong?
      2. When the FW .htm file is updated, won't it automatically be associated with all my website pages and therefor be updated or is the DW file not reaching out to the FW .htm file each time the DW file is loaded?
      3. If this is the case, does this mean I have to create a template that all my pages refer to for the navigation so when I need to make changes to the navigation I only need to update the template file?

      Your assistance and time is sincerely appreciated - thank you.
        • 1. Re: Roundtrip HTML between FW8 & DW8
          Level 7
          > 1. What am I doing wrong?

          Candidly? You are using FW's pop-up menus, and FW's HTML.

          I'd rather see you dump the FW pop-up menus and just do them in DW using one
          of the methods here -

          Check the uberlink and McFly tutorials at PVII
          ( http://www.projectseven.com/)

          and the Navbar tutorial at Thierry's place ( http://www.tjkdesign.com)

          or the commercial one here -

          http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm/

          There are lots of reasons not to use these pop-ups, even the improved ones
          in FW8.

          --
          Murray --- ICQ 71997575
          Adobe Community Expert
          (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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          "Zee Marie" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
          news:e1rbrd$5tc$1@forums.macromedia.com...
          >I created a pop-up menu in FW a few days ago and added it to the DW site
          >using
          > the Common tool palette, Fireworks HTML. To edit the PUM I would click on
          > one
          > of the main buttons, click on the FW logo in the Properties palette which
          > would
          > then launch FW and ask me if I would like to work from the original .png
          > file
          > (yes). I edited the file, saved the changes, clicked on the Done button
          > and the
          > changes were reflected in the DW file.
          >
          > Last night and today, I followed the same procedure (at least six times)
          > as
          > above. The changes did show in the FW file, but did not in the DW file.
          > When I
          > would go back to FW, the changes were gone, but when I loaded the file in
          > FW
          > fresh, the changes were in fact saved to the file. Frustrated, I deleted
          > the
          > PUM in the DW file and inserted the new Fireworks HTML. The problem with
          > this
          > was I had to repeat this for all my website pages.
          >
          > 1. What am I doing wrong?
          > 2. When the FW .htm file is updated, won't it automatically be associated
          > with all my website pages and therefor be updated or is the DW file not
          > reaching out to the FW .htm file each time the DW file is loaded?
          > 3. If this is the case, does this mean I have to create a template that
          > all
          > my pages refer to for the navigation so when I need to make changes to the
          > navigation I only need to update the template file?
          >
          > Your assistance and time is sincerely appreciated - thank you.
          >


          • 2. Re: Roundtrip HTML between FW8 &amp; DW8
            Zee_Marie Level 1
            Yup, you are convincing me about the FW navigation. I was looking at the code just now and what a mess. Actually, the whole lack of intuitive navigation in DW is extremely disappointing. Well, on to more tutorials and figuring out the best solution. I'd like to be able to change one navigation file and all the website files that are associated with that file, update automatically. Additionally, I do not wish to write code and prefer working in design mode.

            I reviewed the tutorial on the pop-up menus in DW and thought I would create it there and see what kind of code it does write. In my tutorials, it stated that FW does a much better job of writing the navigation CSS in FW. Sure doesn't look like it to me.

            If'n you don't mind, would you point me to a website within which you created the navigation with PVII? I'd like to view the code.

            As always, appreciate your time and sharing of knowledge.
            • 3. Re: Roundtrip HTML between FW8 &amp; DW8
              Level 7
              > I'd like to be able to change one navigation file and all the
              > website files that are associated with that file, update automatically.

              Library items, Templates, or server-side includes are the way to go for
              that. I use the latter two all the time.

              > Additionally, I do not wish to write code and prefer working in design
              > mode.

              Then you want a 'system'. Here's the best I have seen. I've used it on 4 of
              my last 5 sites -

              http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm/

              > If'n you don't mind, would you point me to a website within which you
              > created
              > the navigation with PVII? I'd like to view the code.

              http://www.fairfaxboulevard.com
              http://www.drlarrystone.com
              http://neapco.beyondunreal.com (you have to click on one of the pearly
              buttons to see the menus)

              All of these are built with templates and SSI.

              --
              Murray --- ICQ 71997575
              Adobe Community Expert
              (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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              ==================


              "Zee Marie" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
              news:e1ti3d$lor$1@forums.macromedia.com...
              > Yup, you are convincing me about the FW navigation. I was looking at the
              > code
              > just now and what a mess. Actually, the whole lack of intuitive navigation
              > in
              > DW is extremely disappointing. Well, on to more tutorials and figuring out
              > the
              > best solution. I'd like to be able to change one navigation file and all
              > the
              > website files that are associated with that file, update automatically.
              > Additionally, I do not wish to write code and prefer working in design
              > mode.
              >
              > I reviewed the tutorial on the pop-up menus in DW and thought I would
              > create
              > it there and see what kind of code it does write. In my tutorials, it
              > stated
              > that FW does a much better job of writing the navigation CSS in FW. Sure
              > doesn't look like it to me.
              >
              > If'n you don't mind, would you point me to a website within which you
              > created
              > the navigation with PVII? I'd like to view the code.
              >
              > As always, appreciate your time and sharing of knowledge.
              >


              • 4. Re: Roundtrip HTML between FW8 &amp; DW8
                Level 7
                On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 13:50:37 +0000 (UTC), "Zee Marie"
                <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote:

                >
                > If'n you don't mind, would you point me to a website within which you created
                >the navigation with PVII? I'd like to view the code.
                >

                Here are some examples:

                http://www.wildrosewebsites.com/ uses Tab Menu Magic

                http://www.beaverhills.ab.ca/ uses Pop Menu Magic

                http://www.heartfultouch.com/ uses Pop Menu Magic

                http://www.forsmallbiz.ca/ uses Menu Magic 2

                http://www.aea.ab.ca/ uses Menu Magic 1

                Win
                --
                Win Day, Wild Rose Websites
                http://www.wildrosewebsites.com
                winday@NOSPAMwildrosewebsites.com
                Skype winifredday
                • 5. Re: Roundtrip HTML between FW8 &amp; DW8
                  Zee_Marie Level 1
                  Thank you both for giving me real-life examples of using PVII with DW. I am sincerely grateful. This has given me additional insight into this product.

                  A couple more questions ought to wrap this up:

                  If you view this website:
                  http://addictionhelp.com
                  username = guest
                  password = guest

                  You will notice that the first 'button' art is much different than the rest of the pop-up menu art. The only thing I found on the PVII website about this was this document:

                  http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/navigation/pmm/rootimages/index.htm

                  Is this how I would have to do create the addictionhelp.com navigation by following these instructions for using PVII?

                  I also noticed that applying a font to the button text has to be done in the code and not by a selection in the WYSIWYG part of PVII. Am I noticing this correctly?

                  My basic impression is it seems when using the PVII extensions for creating more complex navigation, I'd have to be editing code. Is this accurate?

                  Once again, I cannot thank all of you enough for communicating with me about this. It's a critical time for decision making for me and I'd like to make wise decisions about the tools I'm going to use for the next few years. Your time and attention is sincerely appreciated!
                  • 6. Re: Roundtrip HTML between FW8 &amp; DW8
                    Level 7
                    You mean the "Center for Addiction Medicine"? If not, sorry, I don't know
                    what you are asking.

                    > I also noticed that applying a font to the button text has to be done in
                    > the
                    > code and not by a selection in the WYSIWYG part of PVII. Am I noticing
                    > this
                    > correctly?

                    <bewildered>Sorry - I have no idea what you are asking. If you are using
                    plain text buttons, then you can do this with CSS. If you are using graphic
                    buttons, then you would do that in your graphics editor.

                    > My basic impression is it seems when using the PVII extensions for
                    > creating
                    > more complex navigation, I'd have to be editing code. Is this accurate?

                    No.

                    Particularly not if you are using something like the PopMenuMagic or the
                    TabMenuMagic (or, frankly, any of them).

                    --
                    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                    Adobe Community Expert
                    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                    ==================
                    http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
                    http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
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                    ==================


                    "Zee Marie" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                    news:e1tvrq$79b$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                    > Thank you both for giving me real-life examples of using PVII with DW. I
                    > am
                    > sincerely grateful. This has given me additional insight into this
                    > product.
                    >
                    > A couple more questions ought to wrap this up:
                    >
                    > If you view this website:
                    > http://addictionhelp.com
                    > username = guest
                    > password = guest
                    >
                    > You will notice that the first 'button' art is much different than the
                    > rest of
                    > the pop-up menu art. The only thing I found on the PVII website about this
                    > was
                    > this document:
                    >
                    > http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/navigation/pmm/rootimages/index.htm
                    >
                    > Is this how I would have to do create the addictionhelp.com navigation by
                    > following these instructions for using PVII?
                    >
                    > I also noticed that applying a font to the button text has to be done in
                    > the
                    > code and not by a selection in the WYSIWYG part of PVII. Am I noticing
                    > this
                    > correctly?
                    >
                    > My basic impression is it seems when using the PVII extensions for
                    > creating
                    > more complex navigation, I'd have to be editing code. Is this accurate?
                    >
                    > Once again, I cannot thank all of you enough for communicating with me
                    > about
                    > this. It's a critical time for decision making for me and I'd like to make
                    > wise
                    > decisions about the tools I'm going to use for the next few years. Your
                    > time
                    > and attention is sincerely appreciated!
                    >


                    • 7. Re: Roundtrip HTML between FW8 &amp; DW8
                      Zee_Marie Level 1
                      Now this one is a doozie and a genuine Macromedia Fireworks 8 bug. Here's the scenario.

                      1. Create a pop-up menu in FW8.
                      2. In design view, place your cursor where you would like your new pop-up menu to be inserted and insert Fireworks HTML into your DW file.
                      3. Delete the pop-up menu images, table, etc. from your DW file.
                      4. Look at your code and recognize that the inserted FW html code did not get removed when you deleted the pop-up menu in your DW file. In fact, depending on how many times you repeated the insert/delete FW html function, you may have several copies of the code in your DW file.

                      When creating a pop-up menu in FW that you then wish to use in DW, it is best to save your .css file as a separate file and your images in a separate folder. This way when you do insert the FW htm into your DW file you will have less code to delete if you delete the related images from your DW file.

                      There are two options to working with a pop-up menu created in FW and placed in a DW file:

                      1. The very best way to handle this is to use an include statement in your DW file and edit the htm file FW creates for use as include code. Forget about the whole round-trip editing feature for the pop-up menus and just realize that for each change you make to your FW htm file you will have to re-create the edited version of this for your include.

                      2. Create a DW template file and insert your pop-up menu's FW htm code where you would like it. Round-trip editing works just fine in this example and for every page you have created which is attached to your template, any changes you make to it using the Round-trip edit feature will be reflected.

                      For a personal insight after dozens of hours figuring all this out, FW8 doesn't write the neatest javascript code, but it does get the job done as long as you understand the limitations. I prefer to work with and am comfortable with using includes especially if creating a website that has more than one DW template.

                      DW templates are probably fine for simple websites and create any website with complexity - especially if using more than one template in a site - and I have found they fall very short of being powerful to work with. I will be writing to Macromedia and submitting to their wish list an extensive solution that is much more user-comprehensive for their template system. Who knows, maybe they'll be inspired! :-)

                      If anyone is interested in this and would like further instruction on the include statement solution to this, I'd be happy to help. Maybe I can save you the dozens of hours I spent on this before it was figured out.

                      P.S. When saving your FW pop-up menu images to a separate file, if they are simple rollovers, the paths will write just fine, but if they are swap images, be sure to check the behaviors panel and that all images are defined so the path to those images is written correctly by the FW export feature.