12 Replies Latest reply on Feb 24, 2017 7:37 PM by sherazch

    Lightroom CC sets improper timestamp on MP4 files from Sony RX10 II

    Rick Baumhauer Level 1

      Just added a Sony RX10 II to my kit, primarily for video. Because of the structure Sony is using on the card, 3rd party software is having issues importing video files from the camera, as they aren't stored in the DCIM folder used by photos. I have been able to get Lightroom CC to see and import the videos by telling LR to look at the whole card in the import dialog (by default, it only looks at the DCIM folder), but on import, LR is adding four hours to the file creation time ONLY for MP4 videos (AVCHD videos are stored separately from MP4, and the creation time is correct for those). So, if I shoot a video a 2pm, Lightroom will say it was shot at 6pm. Since I name my files with the original file number followed by the capture time, MP4 files end up sorted out of order, and could end up in the wrong day folder if shot after 8pm. I can go in manually and have LR change the file creation time metadata and then rename the files to pick up the new time, but it would be nice not to have to jump through those hoops every time.

        • 1. Re: Lightroom CC sets improper timestamp on MP4 files from Sony RX10 II
          johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

          Are you importing by inserting the camera card into a card reader, or are you using a USB cable?  There's a known time zone bug with the latter.

           

          If you're importing via the card reader, please post a sample video on Dropbox or similar, and I'll take a look at its metadata.  The problem could be with LR or with the way the camera recorded the metadata.  LR does a pretty bad job at handling video metadata, so it would be good to nail the problem precisely before filing a bug report.

          • 2. Re: Lightroom CC sets improper timestamp on MP4 files from Sony RX10 II
            Rick Baumhauer Level 1

            John - these were imported via a card reader.

             

            I can now clarify that this only happens with MP4 files recorded with the XAVC S codec - "normal" (h.264?) MP4 files come in with the correct time stamp. I'm guessing that this is being caused by the XML files that are stored with each XAVC S MP4 file (these don't exist for normal MP4s, which only have a .THM file), which specify the following for each corresponding file (with different actual timestamps, of course):

             

            <CreationDate value="2016-05-04T11:00:30-04:00"/>

             

            I had a hunch that the issue was time zone related - this appears to confirm it. It appears that LR is taking the (correct) local time and adding the 4 hours back on when it imports, possibly based on the info in the XML file.

             

            For clarity, note that "normal" MP4 files are stored in the /MP_ROOT folder, and are numbered consecutively with photos stored in the /DCIM folder. XAVC S MP4 files are stored in /private/M4ROOT/CLIP, and appear to be numbered entirely separately.

            • 3. Re: Lightroom CC sets improper timestamp on MP4 files from Sony RX10 II
              johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

              Can you post to Dropbox (or similar) a sample MP4 and its XML sidecar, copied directly from the card rather than after importing to LR? There is clearly something going on with time zones, but I'm not sure that it's the sidecar.

               

              Re the /private folder, it appears that for some reason Sony isn't following the industry standard for where to store videos on the card.

              • 4. Re: Lightroom CC sets improper timestamp on MP4 files from Sony RX10 II
                Rick Baumhauer Level 1

                Just sent you a message with a link. Thanks for your help!

                • 5. Re: Lightroom CC sets improper timestamp on MP4 files from Sony RX10 II
                  johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                  What's going on: The spec for QuickTime/MP4 metadata calls for capture times to be recorded in UTC (GMT).  That's what the Sony camera has done -- it recorded a Create Date field of 2016:05:04 16:31:09. Unbelievably, the spec provides no standard way of recording the time zone.   So the only time in a standard MP4 field  that LR can report is 2016:05:04 16:31:09.

                   

                  Note that, until recently, few digital cameras had a notion of time zone, so they ignored the spec and recorded local time (whatever their clock was set to) in the Create Date field.  That's why LR usually reports the correct capture time for such cameras.

                   

                  The Sony did record the time zone in non-standard, undocumented, Sony-specific XML metadata stored in the MP4 file and in the XML sidecar, 2016:05:04 12:31:09-04:00, which is 12:31 pm EDT.   But LR doesn't read that manufacturer-specific metadata.   (I wasn't able to find any documentation for the Sony metadata schema, urn:schemas-professionalDisc:nonRealTimeMeta:ver.2.00.)

                   

                  A similar problem occurs with iPhone videos -- the iPhone records a UTC time in the Create Date field, as called for by the spec, but LR interprets it as local time, since there isn't any time zone available to LR.  See this bug report: Lightroom: iPhone video Capture Time is shifted upon Import | Photoshop Family Customer Community

                  • 6. Re: Lightroom CC sets improper timestamp on MP4 files from Sony RX10 II
                    Rick Baumhauer Level 1

                    John - how did I know this would end up in a morass of manufacturer-specific silliness? Thanks for your efforts - at least I know I'm not alone (I import my iPhone videos by pointing LR at my Photos library, which has already corrected for time zones, so I didn't encounter it there).

                     

                    What accounts for the correct handling of h.264 MP4s vs the incorrect handling of XAVC S MP4s? I assumed it was the XML file (since that isn't present for the h.264 files), but if I understand you correctly, it appears it's actually embedded in the file itself.

                     

                    Thanks again for your help, even if it seems we're unlikely to see a fix for it. I'm working with Camera Bits (of Photo Mechanic) to see if we can get a workable solution to a (possibly) different-but-similar issue, which is the only reason I tried to import directly into LR in the first place. Now that I think about it, the issue I'm having with Photo Mechanic is that it isn't reading capture time in any useful way from the XAVC S MP4s, and so isn't putting them in my dated folder structure at all. I wonder if it's tripping over the way Sony has implemented capture time in the MP4s in question....

                     

                    The weird thing is, this isn't a particularly new camera - it's been out for several months. You'd think somebody would have noted the way things are clashing and made an adjustment somewhere (preferably Sony).

                    • 7. Re: Lightroom CC sets improper timestamp on MP4 files from Sony RX10 II
                      johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                      More and more people are encountering this issue.  If you add your vote and details to this topic in the official Adobe feedback forum: Lightroom: iPhone video Capture Time is shifted upon Import | Photoshop Family Customer Community that would help inform Adobe that more of its users are experiencing the problem.  In the longer term, Adobe can pressure manufacturers to implement the XMP standard for video, which would allow dates/times to be recorded with time zones (among other things).  Adobe defined the XMP standard years ago, and it's been widely adopted for still images.

                      • 8. Re: Lightroom CC sets improper timestamp on MP4 files from Sony RX10 II
                        johnrellis Most Valuable Participant
                        a morass of manufacturer-specific silliness

                        Blame Apple for the original sin of defining the QuickTime spec that way.  Time and time again (pun intended) over the past 30 years, engineers have screwed up the specifications for date/time fields.    They (including me) don't like thinking about the complications of time zones!

                        • 9. Re: Lightroom CC sets improper timestamp on MP4 files from Sony RX10 II
                          johnrellis Most Valuable Participant
                          What accounts for the correct handling of h.264 MP4s vs the incorrect handling of XAVC S MP4s?

                          Two possibilities: LR may read the correct date/time from the THM sidecar file (which is really just a JPEG that includes industry-standard XMP metadata).    Or the camera may write local time into its normal videos (just as it does with still images).

                          • 10. Re: Lightroom CC sets improper timestamp on MP4 files from Sony RX10 II
                            pinojo Level 1

                            I'm having the same issues with my Canon 70D—the time stamps on all the images are correct but the videos are not (even though looking at the "Date Modified" field in Finder shows the correct time). This is really getting annoying because (1) the meta data is wrong in my Lightroom Library for video files and (2) it is a PITA to get it sorted right on apps like Flickr. It sounds like there really is nothing to be done and this stinks. I did go to the Get Satisfaction board and cast a vote for this topic.

                             

                            For what it's worth, I use the card reader in my Mac Mini to transfer the files rather than a USB.

                             

                            Thanks for the detailed forum post.

                            • 11. Re: Lightroom CC sets improper timestamp on MP4 files from Sony RX10 II
                              chrigelhodel Level 1

                              Interestingly, LR mobile on the iPhone recognizes the correct timestamp when I import the video into LR mobile. Only LR CC on my mac shows an incorrect timestamp. Would be nice if LR mobile would sync the correct timestamp to LR CC on the Mac... (or LR CC on the Mac would have the same algorithm to evaluate the timestamp)

                              • 12. Re: Lightroom CC sets improper timestamp on MP4 files from Sony RX10 II
                                sherazch Level 1

                                I've had the same issue with MP4 files from my RX cameras over the last four years.  Recently, I thought of a simple workaround to this issue.  I simply set the time zone in the camera to London with Daylight Savings Off.

                                 

                                Once I did this there has been no issue since the camera does not have to convert the time for MP4 files to UTC.  To me the time zone being wrong is not an issue as long as the time and date are correct.

                                 

                                Hope this helps.

                                 

                                -Sheraz