16 Replies Latest reply on May 31, 2016 9:54 AM by erica59044543

    Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages

    erica59044543 Level 1

      Desired outcome is to place a file.docx (9 pages) onto page 1 of a new .indd and have it auto-flow creating another 9 pages. Easy.

       

      Then insert a page before page 1 and place a different file2.docx (7 pages) onto that page and it should auto-flow 7 pages, pushing the pre-existing 9 pages forward by the new 7 pages, for a total of 16 pages.

       

      Instead, what’s happening is that the newly placed second file places its text “on top of” the pre-existing text, “overlapping” the pre-existing pages so that no new Pages are generated. Still just 9 pages with the first 7 of them having overlapping text. (When the latter placed text file is longer than the first, say 11 pages, then it still overlaps the first 9 pages, but then adds 2 additional pages at the end to accommodate the full 11.)

       

      Where is the panel for setting newly placed text files to be “inserted before” existing text rather than to “overlap” existing text? (I’ve searched hard for this, but must not be using the right keywords.)

       

      Thank you.

       

      Update: I started a new document and the above is working perfectly by simply click placing the story onto a page, which creates multiple stories that are internally threaded, but are not thread to one another. Exactly what I want, and basic functionality, as I suspected.

       

      However, in the non-test document that I’m actually building I now get the red overset box when plain click placing, or if I instead shift click place it reproduces the unwanted behavior from above.

       

      What am I missing here?

        • 1. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          My best guess is that you mixed master text frames and ordinary text frames between the two stories.

          • 2. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
            erica59044543 Level 1

            Peter Spier,

             

            It’s actually working now, but I’m not confident that I understand why it’s now working and why it wasn’t working previously. Regarding your comment:

             

            So if a page had a master page with a text frame applied to it, but then somehow that page had another (identical) text frame on the page atop the pre-existing master page text frame, would that cause this situation? Could that be what caused one story (text frame on page) to “overlap” another story (text frame on master page), rather than to create new pages in front of the pre-existing story in the master text frame?

            • 3. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              Let me start by saying that I rarely use master text frames, and never Primary text frames, which behave a bit differently, but I've just done a little experiment to reproduce your problem, and I am able to do so if I do NOT place the second story into a master text frame of some sort.

              • 4. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
                jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                erica59044543 wrote:

                 

                Desired outcome is to place a file.docx (9 pages) onto page 1 of a new .indd and have it auto-flow creating another 9 pages. Easy.

                 

                Then insert a page before page 1 and place a different file2.docx (7 pages) onto that page and it should auto-flow 7 pages, pushing the pre-existing 9 pages forward by the new 7 pages, for a total of 16 pages.

                 

                 

                What am I missing here?

                Erica, the problem started when you inserted a page and flowed the new text onto the new page.

                 

                What happens if you have an insertion point in your existing text and place the new text to the cursor? Does it work as you wish it to then?

                • 5. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
                  erica59044543 Level 1

                  jane-e,

                   

                  I just positioned the insertion point in the existing text and placed a text file to the cursor. This created an overset box (where previously there was not one) and collapsed the entire document at that overset location (where previously there were 100+ pages). Not sure what that means.

                   

                  Which brings me to a second question about something that I've been unable to get working, despite following video instructions click for click, and that is: When you have an overset box, how do you release that overset and let it flow into however many new pages are needed to eliminate the overset?

                  • 6. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
                    erica59044543 Level 1

                    Peter Spier,

                     

                    I was wondering about this.

                     

                    I just watched a video that said, summarized: "The main text frame can be on a master page, but it's not necessary if you're going to flow text all the way to the margins."

                     

                    Which is my workflow, so perhaps I should remove the text frames from the master pages.

                     

                    I had also previously figured out to NOT use the Primary text frames, so I'm with you there.

                    • 7. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
                      Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

                      Overset text will have a red plus icon in lower right corner of frame. Click it, your cursor is now loaded.

                      With loaded cursor you can:

                      A. click and drag to create a new frame with text filling frame

                      B. click onto page, and text frame will be created to width of margin, filling to bottom margin

                      C. click into an existing frame, and text will fill that frame

                       

                      For continuous flowing text, and add necessary pages: with loaded cursor hold down shift, then click. This works for A and B. For C, it works with a primary text frame only.

                      • 8. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
                        erica59044543 Level 1

                        Jeffrey_Smith,

                         

                        Thank you, that works. "For continuous flowing text, and add necessary pages: with loaded cursor hold down shift, then click." I experimented with shift+clicking in the existing page, on the overflow port, on the following page, and outside the margins, and it appears that the location of the cursor upon the shift+click is irrelevant, and that the continuous flowing text will simply continue at the top of the newly added page. Do you concur with this?

                         

                        When I now do this (thanks to you), the continuous flowing text on the added pages "overlaps" the following pages instead of "pushing" them forward to allow the new pages to be inserted. I think this must be related to the page text frames vs master page text frames that Peter Spier mentioned.

                         

                        I will experiment now with removing text frames from the master pages.

                        • 9. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          erica59044543 wrote:

                           

                          Peter Spier,

                           

                          I was wondering about this.

                           

                          I just watched a video that said, summarized: "The main text frame can be on a master page, but it's not necessary if you're going to flow text all the way to the margins."

                           

                          Which is my workflow, so perhaps I should remove the text frames from the master pages.

                           

                          I had also previously figured out to NOT use the Primary text frames, so I'm with you there.

                          No, if you want to avoid the overlap in this case you actually need the master frames.

                          • 10. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            Of course you could also avoid the issue by reversing the order of story placement (or moving the pages after placing the second story downstream of the first one).

                            • 11. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
                              Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

                              Yes, it sounds like you have primary text frames along with independent threaded text frames.

                               

                              For your original question, here's what I would do: Create new ID document with primary text frames. Place first word document. Hold down shift, click on page. This will flow text into primary text frames, and add necessary pages. With second word document, have cursor placed at the end of previously placed text. Place, while holding shift. This will flow text to end, adding necessary pages, while maintaining one continuous text thread for both stories.

                              • 12. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
                                jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                erica59044543 wrote:

                                 

                                When I now do this (thanks to you), the continuous flowing text on the added pages "overlaps" the following pages instead of "pushing" them forward to allow the new pages to be inserted. I think this must be related to the page text frames vs master page text frames that Peter Spier mentioned.

                                 

                                I will experiment now with removing text frames from the master pages.

                                Erica,

                                 

                                Here is a little bit of theory: InDesign uses threaded text frames—text frames that are threaded together into one or more Stories.

                                 

                                If you enable Primary Text Frame when you select File > New (or create them manually), you will have primary text frames that will automatically create pages as you add text into the current Story. It is not enabled by default.

                                 

                                 

                                You can also create text frames by placing text or by drawing frames. If the text frames are overlapping (sitting on top of each other), you can delete frames as long as you leave at least one frame left in the story. You might move them aside while you are exploring. For your document, you probably want one Story with one text frame per page. (Probably.) The frames will be linked, or Threaded, so the text flows from one frame to the next across the pages. You can thread them manually as mentioned earlier or by Shift + clicking.

                                 

                                To see what you have right now in your messed up document, do one or all of these:

                                1. Go to View > Extras > Show Text Threads

                                2. With the Type tool and an insertion point, go to Edit > Select All (Cmd+A) to select all text within one Story.

                                 

                                3. Click in the text or select it with the Selection tool and go to Edit > Edit in Story Editor to see the text in that Story.

                                • 13. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
                                  erica59044543 Level 1

                                  jane-e,

                                   

                                  I had actually made it that far before turning to the forum, but your post confirmed several things for me, so thank you.

                                   

                                  I really just want the ID doc to behave like a Word doc when inserting other docs anywhere into the middle of the main doc. ...but...

                                  I’m starting to suspect that ID is not built for this functionality, and therefore that it just won’t natively support my workflow, which looks like this:

                                  Story A

                                  Story B

                                  Story N

                                   

                                  All of the stories are placed+linked Word files of varying lengths, and subject to updating the links when necessary which further varies their lengths (which I just experienced performing jane-e’s suggested test).

                                   

                                  I’m going to research InDesign’s ‘Book’ functionality to see if that might be a better solution.

                                  • 14. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
                                    jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                    Yes, the book feature means the Stories A, B, ... N would be separate files and pulled together into a book. If nothing else, you can number pages across the book. Yay! You can also generate a TOC across the book. If you have questions on that, then ask in a new thread.

                                     

                                    Are your questions answered here?

                                    • 16. Re: Placing new text files does not “push forward” pre-existing Pages
                                      erica59044543 Level 1

                                      I wanted to thank you guys for your help and to update you on all of this, and to leave this here for others with similar questions..

                                       

                                      First, I did watch all the videos on the InDesign Book feature. Great feature, but really doesn’t solve my problem. At best, it would be an awkward workaround that still didn’t accomplish the desired workflow.

                                       

                                      Somehow I managed to find a video that is directly on point. (No explanation for why I didn’t come across it during the many hours of my previous searching.)

                                       

                                      Anyway, here it is: https://www.lynda.com/Design-tutorials/Primary-text-frame-Smart-Text-Reflow/435134/463762- 4.html

                                       

                                      I’ve tested my workflow several times and tried to break it, but it appears to be holding up, so I think that this is in fact the correct answer.

                                       

                                      Thanks again for the help.