34 Replies Latest reply on Jun 8, 2016 4:24 AM by Laubender

    EPS graphics making pdf into a monster

    fotoviva

      Hi folks

       

      So I have created a 12pp brochure for a client but even using the 'smallest file size' pdf preset it creates an 82mb monster. I think this is due to some small eps images that I have sprinkled around the document. Is there a way when creating the pdf to have them effectively rasterized to keep the file size down? I'd rather not have to make them into PSD files as a workaround if possible.

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
          Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          First, EPS is an archaic file format. Better to save as AI files.

           

          Second, when creating a PDF file that contains vector graphics, there is no way to "compress" vectors like you can with bitmapped images. Since with Smallest File Size preset, you're targeting web or onscreen viewing, you might as well use PSD or JPEG images.

          • 2. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
            fotoviva Level 1

            Thanks Steve

             

            I will bare that in mind when saving as eps or ai now.  I was just sending my client a quick proof over email first. It will be printed once approved.

            • 3. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
              Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              You could avoid the necessity to do that if you used a service like Dropbox. Make a higher resolution PDF and place it in Dropbox. Then send a link to your client to download. (Email is so 1990s sometimes!)

              • 4. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                This is handy script I came across

                 

                Indesign export as rasterized PDF – Dr Scripto

                 

                It basically outputs the PDF - opens it photoshop - then saves it as a PDF again.

                 

                It completely rasterises the entire PDF - great for proofing files that turn into mega size due to large amounts of vector data.

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                  fotoviva Level 1

                  Thanks for that, I tried it but it gave a few errors and then said it couldn't make the final pdf! I'm on creative cloud.

                  • 6. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                    Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Have you got photoshop installed?

                     

                    Did you do it this way http://indesignsecrets.com/how-to-install-scripts-in-indesign.php

                     

                    And what errors did you get?

                    • 7. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                      fotoviva Level 1

                      Yes I have PS CC 2015

                       

                      It's an applescript error -1712, something about an appleEvent timed out.

                       

                      Guess I'll have to resort to converting the eps files to PS!

                      • 8. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                        Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        I wouldn't do that.

                         

                        Open the PDF in photoshop and save the pages to a jpeg.

                         

                        Then combine the files in acrobat.

                         

                        Alternatively, export directly from Indesign to PNG and then combine those files in acrobat.

                        • 9. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Guess I'll have to resort to converting the eps files to PS!

                          If the eps' are vector you could force them to rasters at export by including a single transparent object somewhere on the page and then flattening the page on export. The transparent object doesn't need to overlap the eps objects—just needs to touch the page.

                           

                          So alter the Smallest Filesize preset Compatability to Acrobat 4 and make a custom flattener preset that forces all objects to rasters:

                           

                          Screen Shot 2016-06-02 at 2.40.59 PM.png

                          Screen Shot 2016-06-02 at 2.41.46 PM.png

                          • 10. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            A placed eps with text set to multiply, exported as Acrobat 4, rasters. AcrobatPro's Object Inspector shows it as a 100ppi image

                             

                             

                            Screen Shot 2016-06-02 at 3.05.46 PM.png

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                              Abambo Level 4

                              EPS can contain vector or raster graphics. Vector graphics should be compressed to its best automatically, no need to convert to Photoshop. Raster EPS is best converted to Photoshop files.

                               

                              I do not beleve, that the EPS files have a big influence on the size of the resulting PDF, as basically EPS is a archaic form of PDF. EPS evolved to PDF and Illustrator uses an extended version of PDF to store its data. Before, it used an extended form of EPS.

                               

                              What can be and surly influences the size of the document is when very complex and big EPS files are included in a huge number at a very small size. This could cause some problems.

                               

                              But thgere is also the possibility, that only one of the files causes the problem. Your turn to try deleting (temporarly) some of the EPS files to check if that improves the PDF size of the resulting file.

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                fotoviva Level 1

                                That's interesting. The images are actually a single eps file that has about a dozen graphics on it, so I'm just using the same file but only showing part of the image on various pages. I will try the flattening trick now though...

                                • 13. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                  fotoviva Level 1

                                  Oh. Dear. Me.

                                   

                                  I must apologise to everyone for wasting their time. I have made a boo-boo with this. Looking at the files used I forgot most of the 12 pages contain a background image that I created in PS. I usually import the psd file in until I am happy with how the design works with the page layout and then I flatten the psd file and convert to jpg, then re-import to ID. I had not done this, so I had 8 instances of a 68mb psd file!!!

                                   

                                  I feel like a complete idiot so I'm really sorry about wasting your time. It was an interesting thread though, and I learnt a few things in the process!

                                   

                                  Peace?

                                  • 14. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                    Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Feierwoon wrote:

                                     

                                    EPS can contain vector or raster graphics. Vector graphics should be compressed to its best automatically, no need to convert to Photoshop. Raster EPS is best converted to Photoshop files.

                                     

                                    I do not beleve, that the EPS files have a big influence on the size of the resulting PDF, as basically EPS is a archaic form of PDF. EPS evolved to PDF and Illustrator uses an extended version of PDF to store its data. Before, it used an extended form of EPS.

                                     

                                    What can be and surly influences the size of the document is when very complex and big EPS files are included in a huge number at a very small size. This could cause some problems.

                                     

                                    But thgere is also the possibility, that only one of the files causes the problem. Your turn to try deleting (temporarly) some of the EPS files to check if that improves the PDF size of the resulting file.

                                     

                                    EPS files would definitely have an influence on the size of a PDF. http://indesignsecrets.com/why-is-my-file-size-so-huge.php

                                    Read the comments of the above link too.

                                     

                                     

                                    EPS is NOT an archaic form of EPS. PDF is the replacement file format for EPS. There is no correlation or link of EPS to PDF, they are separate.

                                     

                                    Here is what Dov Isaacs from Adobe said in a discussion on a PrintPlanet forum:

                                    …Adobe will continue to support EPS as a legacy graphics format for import of non-color managed, opaque graphical data into Adobe applications (such as InDesign and Illustrator). Although we certain do not recommend that new graphical content be stored in EPS format (except to satisfy the need to import data into page layout programs that aren’t quite PDF-centric — no need to mention names here!), our user base should feel comfortable that there is no need to worry about a need to convert their very sizable libraries of EPS-based graphic assets.”

                                     

                                    The EPS file format | What is an Encapsulated PostScript file

                                    How to reduce the file size of EPS files

                                    Logos and other types of artwork are often saved as EPS files. It makes sense to try and keep the file size down. There are a number of things you can do to reduce the size of EPS data:

                                    • Often the preview image that is embedded in an EPS file makes up a large part of the EPS data. If you originally filled a landscape A4 or letter size canvas with a logo, the A4 or letter sized preview image can easily exceed half a megabyte. If the logo is a vector based drawing, there is no disadvantage in reducing its size and making it 10 centimeters or 4 inches wide. That may halve the file size of the EPS file.
                                    • An application like Adobe Illustrator saves additional information in its EPS output. When saving as an EPS file, you can select the file format. By selecting Illustrator 9 instead of Illustrator CS5, I shaved 200K off the file size of an EPS. Take into account that saving in an older file format may impact your ability to edit the EPS file afterward.
                                    • Get rid of unnecessary data: In its Action window Adobe Illustrator has an option to delete unused palette items. This deletes unused color swatches, brushes, symbols and styles. That may reduce the file size by an extra 200 to 400 K. Also make sure that there isn’t any irrelevant artwork hidden in a deactivated layer or the pasteboard area.
                                    • Try optimizing the design by simplifying paths or merging multiple paths into a single one.
                                    • If the EPS file needs to contain bitmap images, make sure to use the optimum resolution for these.

                                    Additional information can be found on this excellent page

                                    1 person found this helpful
                                    • 15. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                      The OP also said, "The images are actually a single eps file that has about a dozen graphics on it, so I'm just using the same file but only showing part of the image on various pages."

                                       

                                      Using oversized images and not selecting "crop image data to frame" during export would result in a large amount of extra image data in the PDF, and I'm not sure if .eps data can be cropped.

                                      • 16. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                        fotoviva Level 1

                                        Soooooo...

                                         

                                        Swapping the psd for jpg had very little impact. I saved the two eps files that contain the graphics as ai files and that took those files from 41.6 to 17.8mb each. However, it reduced the pdf size by a mere 2mb for some reason.

                                         

                                        I also tried the flattening trick which did work really well except the text was then hard to read. Tried bringing the flattening level up a wee bit but then that increased the file size back to near how it was before!

                                         

                                        BTW the ID size is 7.3mb and the pdfs are coming out at about 80mb

                                        • 17. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          Swapping the psd for jpg had very little impact.

                                          Right, it wouldn't matter because InDesign takes the incoming pixels without any compression, so a JPEG and PSD with the same pixel dimensions and bit depth would be handled the same way. If you want to reduce file size via compression and down sampling all that matters is your export Compression tab settings. I don't think you've mentioned what they are?

                                          • 18. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                            fotoviva Level 1

                                            Hi Rob

                                             

                                            I'm using the standard 'smallest file size' preset which has:

                                             

                                            color images

                                            bicubic downsampling to 100dpi for images above 150dpi

                                            compression: auto jpeg

                                            image quality: low

                                            greyscale 150dpi

                                            monochrome 300dpi for images over 450dpi

                                            compression CCITT group 4

                                            compress text and line art - ticked

                                            crop image data to frames - ticked

                                            compatibility: acrobat 6

                                            • 19. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                              Abambo Level 4

                                              That sounds quite logical to me. This explains the size.

                                              • 20. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                fotoviva Level 1

                                                How do I bring the jpegs into acrobat? They seem greyed out when I try importing them so I assume you can't just import a file as a page.

                                                • 21. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                  Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  Hello fotoviva,

                                                   

                                                  did you already use Acrobat Pro's function "PDF Optimizer" where you can check the "Audit Space Usage"?
                                                  Maybe that would give you a hint what's going on in your PDF.

                                                   

                                                  "Document Overhead" would probably show something unusual.
                                                  You could do an extra "Clean Up" with "PDF Optimizer". Or you could "Discard User Data" with "Discard document information and metadata" checked…

                                                   

                                                  Check also something else ( just to test minmum file size ) :
                                                  Try to print to PostScript and distill the PostScript file to PDF with custom settings on downsampling in Acrobat Distiller that comes with Acrobat Pro. How to print to PostScript is shown here:

                                                  http://indesignsecrets.com/creating-postscript-files-in-snow-leopard-for-older-print-workf lows.php

                                                   

                                                  After distilling to PDF check the PDF with "PDF Optimizer" as recommended above.

                                                   

                                                  Regards,
                                                  Uwe

                                                  • 22. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                    Abambo Level 4

                                                    Eugene Tyson wrote:

                                                     

                                                    EPS files would definitely have an influence on the size of a PDF. http://indesignsecrets.com/why-is-my-file-size-so-huge.php

                                                    Read the comments of the above link too.

                                                    I didn't find any reference to EPS on the page. I read this article a few years ago. It tells you, why your InDesign file is that big.

                                                    That's it.

                                                     

                                                    You should put your arguments right: First there was PostScript, as a spin-off we had Encapsulated PostScript (EPS). EPS was at the time the defacto standard and I send my print ready files as EPS files on a CDROM to the printer. Raster image files in EPS where huge, but vector files where very compact. It's the same today with PDF.

                                                     

                                                    Then Adobe developed the PDF format. The first version was intended to be "Interchange PostScript". If I'm looking at a E-PostScript file and if I'm looking at a PDF file I see the same structure elements. ie %!PS-Adobe-3.0...for a PDF and %!PS-Adobe-3.1 EPSF-3.0 for a EPS.

                                                     

                                                    Adobe just only focussed all the effort on the highly successful PDF format instead of spreading their resources on a lot of off-springs of PostScript.

                                                     

                                                    EPS has no huge impact on the file size of a document, except if the EPS contains raster data. The same is true for PDF and any other vector formats. Raster data makes files big and nothing else, looked up in the correct relation too each other.

                                                    • 23. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                      fotoviva Level 1

                                                      Thanks, it showed Content Streams as 97%. Did a search and it seems that could well be vector data that cannot be compressed. Saving as optimized pdf didn't have any affect on the file size.

                                                       

                                                      Printing to postscript now...

                                                      • 24. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        I also tried the flattening trick which did work really well except the text was then hard to read.

                                                        That would seem to indicate the size is coming from vector art because if you are using an all raster flattener preset the entire page gets rasterized.

                                                         

                                                        Could you screen capture a typical page for us?

                                                        • 25. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                          fotoviva Level 1

                                                          menu.jpg

                                                          Hi Rob

                                                           

                                                          The brown/cream with white graphics is all a jpeg. The two brown graphics, the white ones in the green header and the shadow graphics are all vector. Type is done in ID.

                                                          • 26. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                            Abambo Level 4

                                                            Looks nice and gives appetite. But I can't see how an unflattened PSD file influences the size of the final PDF (vs a flattened JPEG), except if you are using uncompressed output options. I keep my layered files with layers and do not flatten before PDF creation.

                                                            • 27. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                              Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                              Peter Spier wrote:

                                                              …  and I'm not sure if .eps data can be cropped.

                                                               

                                                              Since the issue of the OP initially is revolving around vector data just a sidenote here on using pixel data as a substitute:

                                                              I think, image data saved as EPS and placed in InDesign will never be cropped when exporting to PDF.

                                                              See here the PDF export from an image, that is rotated around 10° on the page and looked at from Acrobat Pro.

                                                               

                                                              A. JPEG placed

                                                              Selected in Acrobat Pro. The outer blue rectangle is showing the size of the actual image bitmap data masked and saved with the PDF.
                                                              Not optimal perhaps, but sufficently cropped. The original placed image is not squre like and its ratio of width and height is not 1:1.

                                                              JPEG-Placed-Rotated.png

                                                               

                                                              B. EPS placed

                                                              The full image is saved with the PDF. Now you can see the real dimensions of the original image (outer blue rectangle rotated):

                                                               

                                                              EPS-Placed-Rotated.png

                                                               

                                                              Now the not-rotated examples:

                                                               

                                                              A. JPEG placed

                                                              The size of the actual bitmap data in the PDF is optimal. All the masks fall into the same size. Only the necessary bitmap data is saved with the PDF:

                                                              JPEG-Placed-NotRotated.png

                                                               

                                                              B. EPS placed

                                                              Far from optimal:

                                                              EPS-Placed-NotRotated.png

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Same PDF export settings used. Crop images option was set.

                                                               

                                                              One would think maybe InDesign's PDF export function is able to minimize the exported bitmap data on an unrotated bitmap EPS file from PhotoShop (or when rotated at 90°, 180°, 270° or 360°), but unfortunately, this is not the case.


                                                              Just doing a comment why it is not recommended using EPS bitmaps over JPEG bitmaps when someone likes to output at minimum size. Be it with InDesign's PDF export or using the old and not recommended save-to-PostScript-distill-to-PDF workflow.

                                                               

                                                              Sorry for disturbing. Just wanted to comment on Peter Spier's post…

                                                               

                                                              Uwe

                                                              1 person found this helpful
                                                              • 28. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                                Abambo Level 4

                                                                Interesting. It does not answer the question if EPS files can be cropped, but will be cropped.

                                                                 

                                                                Now, if they have not been cropped, will PDFs be cropped?

                                                                 

                                                                If they have not been cropped, they can be reconstructed in Illustrator for example.

                                                                • 29. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  So is the background vector objects (lots of gradient meshes?). If all of the text is in ID you could try saving the backgrounds as flattened PDF and force them to rasters. That would keep the ID text as text.

                                                                  • 30. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                                    Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                    Feierwoon wrote:

                                                                     

                                                                    …Now, if they have not been cropped, will PDFs be cropped?…

                                                                    Do you mean pixel data inside of a placed PDF?
                                                                    If the bounds of the pixel data is totally off page, that data will not be saved with the exported PDF. When inside or partly inside the InDesign page, the pixel data will be saved in total. Never cropped.

                                                                     

                                                                    But back to the placed vector objects.

                                                                     

                                                                    If one is using just a tiny area of a placed PDF or a placed AI file as a sprite, the whole information, not only the visible one, will be saved with the exported PDF from InDesign. I'm refering to my memory here, to proof this I should do some tests.

                                                                     

                                                                    And if that PDF is placed more than one time and maybe is in contact with transparency, there is possibly no algorithm that could generate a XREF table or XREF stream in the PDF to minimize the file size to one instance of that data. Maybe it has to be written more than one time per instance to construct the desired effect. That would explain the increase of file size…

                                                                     

                                                                    But that is pure speculation on my side without seeing the actual PDF.

                                                                     

                                                                    Uwe

                                                                    • 31. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                                      I'd be extremely curious to know if breaking apart that one large EPS (sooooo last century) into individual images and placing those makes a significant difference in the PDF size.

                                                                      • 32. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                                        Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                        Hi Peter,

                                                                        I strongly assume it would make a big difference, yes.

                                                                         

                                                                        Uwe

                                                                        • 33. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                                          fotoviva Level 1

                                                                          BINGO!!!

                                                                           

                                                                          All the used graphics of the ai file were put into their own individual ai files and replaced in the ID file.

                                                                           

                                                                          Original pdf 81.5mb

                                                                          New pdf 7.2mb

                                                                           

                                                                          That's better! So it seems ID and Acrobat do indeed use the whole of the placed ai files even though with the pdf export we have 'crop image data to frames' ticked.

                                                                           

                                                                          Well I'm relieved (and I bet you are too!). I guess we have all learned something here.

                                                                           

                                                                          Thanks for all your suggestions, it's great when a community gets together like this to work out a solution.

                                                                           

                                                                          Cheers

                                                                          • 34. Re: EPS graphics making pdf into a monster
                                                                            Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                            The word "image" should not be considered as a substitute for every possible kind of generic "graphic" InDesign can handle with the "place" command. In fact, "image" goes with "bit map image". At that would imply only TIF, JPEG, PNG, PSD with pixel data only. Not EPS and PDF with pixel data only.

                                                                             

                                                                            Uwe