16 Replies Latest reply on Jun 6, 2016 5:16 AM by Test Screen Name

    extended ASCII doesn't work in ID

    DerrylS Level 1

      Macs have had the ability to access extended ASCII character sets beyond just the old 128 standard ASCII set to use in programs. CTL-CMD-shift will access the tables or from the menu bar. ě (e with the inverted caret) is an example of an extended character which is showing in this browser posting and hopefully for those viewing the post.

       

      However, ID does not allow accessing the extended character sets through ID menus or the Mac keystroke shortcut. Searching the forum did not turn up any suggestions.

       

      Even text with extended characters that is cut/pasted from a different Mac document into ID only shows the extended characters as a blank or colored rectangle, even though the text was seen and printable in the first document.

       

      Since ID is for publishing, the inability to access the extended characters set seems a big omission.

        • 1. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
          Michael Witherell Adobe Community Professional

          Have you tried InDesign's Glyph panel (under the Type menu)?

          • 2. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
            Michael Witherell Adobe Community Professional

            BTW, what font is being used when the copy and paste to InDesign isn't working correctly?

            • 3. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
              DerrylS Level 1

              I used Times, Helvetica, Adobe Stone Serif for testing.

               

              The fact that none of those fonts would cut/paste into ID with High ASCII shows Adobe is not keeping up-to-date with current ASCII usage.

               

              However, PS WILL accept pasted text created from a Mac document using the High ASCII pallet and shows it. The same text pasted into ID did not display properly. (I pasted "Now is the timě" into both and the symbol over the e only shows in PS)

               

              If Adobe can do it in PS, why won't it also work in ID? ID is a super complex word processor for publishing.

              • 4. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
                Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                You should not copy and paste, you should import it via File > Place…

                • 5. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
                  Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                  There is no "current" extended ASCII. The term is completely obsolete. We now work with Unicode which goes up to tens of thousands of characters. Of course, no font contains all of them, and the world is more complicated than it used to be.

                   

                  This is why you should use the Glyphs palette, not heritage things from System 7 that happen still to work. What happens with that palette?

                  • 6. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
                    Michael Witherell Adobe Community Professional

                    BTW, what Mac version and InDesign version are you using. The fact that you mention "Times" as a font suggests a potential problem. Are you using OpenType fonts or old PostScript fonts? It seems like something else is missing with this question, as all ASCII (years: 1963-1986) characters are still present in any future Unicode font encodings. Something else is wrong. Have you run any font troubleshooting software like FontDoctor to sniff out ancient/corrupt fonts? Have you run FontNuke or FontFingler utilities to reset your font system plists? (Which means make the Mac fonts behave correctly.)

                    • 7. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
                      jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                      DerrylS wrote:

                       

                      The fact that none of those fonts would cut/paste into ID with High ASCII shows Adobe is not keeping up-to-date with current ASCII usage.

                       

                      However, PS WILL accept pasted text created from a Mac document using the High ASCII pallet and shows it. The same text pasted into ID did not display properly. (I pasted "Now is the timě" into both and the symbol over the e only shows in PS)

                       

                      If Adobe can do it in PS, why won't it also work in ID? ID is a super complex word processor for publishing.

                       

                      When I told InDesign to paste "all information" and not "text only" in Preferences > Clipboard Handling, it worked the way you wanted it to. Try that and see if it works for you.

                       

                      • 8. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
                        Bo LeBeau Level 4

                        Are you talking about the "Character Viewer" in the Mac OS?

                         

                        If so, you don't need to copy & paste from other documents to use the character in InDesign.

                         

                        You can just double click the desired character in Character Viewer and it will automatically be inserted into your active text box in InDesign. Or you can select the character and click the Insert button at the lower right of the Viewer. You can even just drag the character from Character Viewer into your active InDesign text box.

                         

                        The Character Viewer will show in one window all the variations of the desired character from all the fonts you have installed on your computer. For the character you mentioned, it found approximately 250 different variations.

                         

                        Of course, this means that you might have end up with a character in a font that is different from the font for the rest of the paragraph.

                        If you need all the paragraph to be in the same font. then the Glyphs palette is the way to go since it only shows one font at at time.

                         

                        But if you really need a specific character and you don't know which fonts support this character, the Character Viewer is much faster.

                         

                        character-viewer.png

                        • 9. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
                          jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                          DerrylS wrote:

                           

                          Since ID is for publishing, the inability to access the extended characters set seems a big omission.

                           

                          Here I have put the character into the Find / Change > Glyph dialog.

                           

                           

                          And here I have created a custom glyph set to make it easy to select the next time.

                           

                           

                          Lastly, here it is, highlighted in the Glyphs panel.

                           

                           

                          Has your question been answered, or do you still have questions about how this works in InDesign?

                          • 10. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
                            [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

                            That is not the character the OP is looking for ('ě') – but, still, it can be located in the font you show (which is Minion Pro).

                             

                            The 'ě' is not a very usual character, which makes me believe OP is checking using the wrong fonts. "Times, Helvetica" – that sounds like some really old fonts, most likely Type 1, which have an extremely limited character set. "Adobe Stone Serif" definitely is a Type 1 font.

                             

                            Way better fonts to check would be any modern version of Times New Roman and Arial (both have this), or any modern Windows "C" font (Calibri: yes, Cambria: yes, Corbel: yes, Constantia: yes, Consolas: yes – I think that's all of them).

                            • 11. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
                              DerrylS Level 1

                              Michael - I am using the latest version of ID (2015.3) and Mac OS 10.11.5

                               

                              Bo -As it now stands, if I get a document (not ID) with a symbol or symbols in it, I have to cut/past the full information from a client's document into ID and then go though the document, compare to the original and replace each glyph that did not paste in the first step. That is a big pain with a huge chance of making mistakes especially if the document is loaded with language diacriticals!

                               

                              I did try and found how to use the Mac symbol chart with ID - who would have thought that would work.

                               

                              The Adobe glyph panel would be more friendly and convenient if it had the side bar to select a category like the Mac and not have to go through the endless list to find what was needed.

                              • 12. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
                                Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Use the Show menu in the Glyphs panel to look for the categories:

                                 

                                InDesign CC081.png

                                • 13. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
                                  [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

                                  Also - missing dearly from earlier versions! - there is now a Search For Name in the dropdown menu.

                                  • 14. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
                                    DerrylS Level 1

                                    Jongware - the character listed is not unusual if you are doing names or other information in Czech. When one creates musical programs containing many titles and names in a variety of languages, what is uncommon to you is not for me. I also made it clear in my posts that I was on a Mac. Arial, New Times, and Calibri are essentially Windows fonts that my Mac programs will substitute for those font families.

                                     

                                    Steve Werner - looks like you are showing a Windows glyph as the Mac version is really boring in comparison. I did find a pull down to select a type. Thanks

                                     

                                    Screen Shot 2016-06-05 at 9.13.02 PM.png

                                     

                                    The Mac system glyph window looks like below.

                                     

                                    Screen Shot 2016-06-05 at 9.24.29 PM.png

                                     

                                    I am considering this post as answered.

                                    • 15. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
                                      Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      Mine is interesting because it's not Times. It's OpenType Minion Pro which has a lot of glyphs. (And I'm on a Mac, by the way.) I generally try to avoid boring Times whenever possible.

                                      • 16. Re: extended ASCII doesn't work in ID
                                        Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                                        The character is not at all unusual in Eastern Europe. E caron is used in the Czech, Upper Sorbian and Lower Sorbian alphabets according to Wikipedia. But it is not in the original Western European (Latin 1) character set used in many older fonts and some modern ones. So check that the font is capable. This is harder than it seems because some apps will, if you try to use a character not in a font, just substitute from a different font. InDesign would not substitute as this would be typographic poison.

                                         

                                        I don't know if this is the case, but it is worth checking on.