34 Replies Latest reply on Jun 15, 2016 3:50 PM by trshaner

    Flat color shift when exporting images

    kasperil7167361 Level 1

      i have really weird problem with lightroom. it satarted suddenly and nothing helps, even uninstalling and re downloading diesnt affect. Problem is that when i export photo it changes like its very flat / less contrasty. Any suggestion what to do!?!??!

       

      Frustrated

        • 1. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
          Akash Sharma Adobe Employee

          Hi kasperil ,

           

          Which version of Lightroom are you using?

          Could you please post a screenshot of Lightroom export Window showing the exported image Color space particularly.

           

          Regards,

          Akash

          • 2. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
            Rikk Flohr - CM Adobe Employee

            Are you selecting Adobe RGB instead of sRGB as your color profile when you export?  That would be a place to look.

            • 4. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
              kasperil7167361 Level 1

              ill check tomorrow and send screenshot

              • 6. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                Akash Sharma Adobe Employee

                Do not use Screen sharpening.

                Uncheck "Sharpen for" and export the image again.

                23.PNG

                 

                Let us know if that helps.

                 

                ~Akash

                • 7. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                  Per Berntsen Adobe Community Professional

                  Using screen sharpening shouldn't reduce contrast.

                  Please post a screenshot of the image in Lightroom and the exported image.

                  Also tell us what software you are using to view the exported image.

                   

                  You can insert images in your posts, use the image icon in the toolbar.

                  • 8. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                    kasperil7167361 Level 1

                    unchecking sharpening didnt help because it makes same effect when i choose edit in photoshop. and it doesnt matter whit which program i watch exportet image its different even when i open it in lr. Screenshot 2016-06-11 20.00.19.pngScreenshot 2016-06-11 20.01.18.png

                    • 9. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                      Per Berntsen Adobe Community Professional

                      The screenshots are identical on my screen.

                      Not sure what's going on here, but it could be a defective monitor profile.

                      As a troubleshooting step, and as a possible temporary fix, try setting the monitor profile to sRGB, as described here:

                      How do I change my monitor profile to check whether it’s corrupted? - The Lightroom Queen

                      If that fixes the issue, you should ideally calibrate your monitor with a hardware calibrator.

                       

                      Also note that editing in Photoshop doesn't necessarily happen in sRGB.

                      Lightroom's default profile for this is ProPhoto, so if you save a jpg of the file in the Photoshop, it will have ProPhoto embedded, unless you do a Convert to profile before saving.

                      • 10. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                        kasperil7167361 Level 1

                        Screenshots Are almost identical but when you look them at lr and chance to other and back you see that there is difference. Biggest difference is in chest area

                        • 11. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                          kasperil7167361 Level 1

                          you can see the difference from histograms, it in the highlights

                          Screenshot 2016-06-11 23.21.37.pngScreenshot 2016-06-11 23.23.02.png

                          • 12. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                            Per Berntsen Adobe Community Professional

                            When you look at the original image, does it display the same in Library and Develop, or do you see a difference?

                            And did you try setting the monitor profile to sRGB ?

                            • 13. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              I have to try hard to see any difference but if I flip back and forth between the two screenshots I see that the lightest areas are slightly different brightness with the light-to-dark transition on her cheekbone is the easiest for me to see something change.

                               

                              Since you are converting from LR's internal wide-gamut profile to sRGB when you export, I am not surprised there are a few things different, and personally I wouldn't worry about it at least for the tiny amount of change I'm seeing.

                               

                              if it's more obvious for you maybe there is a display profile issue.

                               

                              As far as the sharpening setting changing things, it can, if there is a fine-grain texture, usually from using high-ISO which this is not.

                              • 14. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                kasperil7167361 Level 1

                                my monitor is calibrated with spyder so it should be ok. but i also tried to set monitor profile to srgb, didnt help. But i realised that images look exactly identical in library mode and different in develop, how can it be possible?

                                • 15. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                  Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  In develop, try soft proofing for sRGB. You are probably dealing with a slight misalignment between your monitor's gamut and sRGB. If that happens you can see slight differences between Library and Develop and between exported images in sRGB and the original. Macs do not really get the corrupt monitor profile thing that is very common on windows machines so that is very unlikely to be the culprit however, it can't hurt to recalibrate using your Spyder. What kind of monitor are you using?

                                  • 16. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                    kasperil7167361 Level 1

                                    Have to try that. Im using iMac i guess 2012 model

                                    • 17. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                      kasperil7167361 Level 1

                                      I dont get whats happening... And screenshots from the pictures was from the library mode so the difference is much bigger in develop mode

                                      • 18. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                        ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Maybe you should be showing us screenshots from Develop, then, as the Library differences aren't enough to worry about, in my opinion.

                                         

                                        Show us both the Fit view you have already shown, and then maybe a 100% or even 200% zoom of the model's cheekbone area, the light-to-dark transition.  Make sure Export sharpening is still switched off, and don't resize, either.

                                        • 19. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                          KR Seals Level 1

                                          These images are flat because you have no blacks in the photos

                                          • 20. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                            kasperil7167361 Level 1

                                            HScreenshot 2016-06-14 17.37.34.pngScreenshot 2016-06-14 17.38.09.pngScreenshot 2016-06-14 17.42.16.pngScreenshot 2016-06-14 17.43.55.pngHere you see the difference better

                                            • 21. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                              Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              I overlaid these two screenshots (the zoomed ones) in Photoshop and they are basically completely identical with what appears to be one or two-bit differences just because of compression artifacts but nothing more than that. What are you seeing here that's different?

                                              • 22. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                                kasperil7167361 Level 1

                                                zoomed ones looks like identical but i see pretty big difference in big ones... or am i just going crazy?!?

                                                • 23. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                                  Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  OK. I overlaid the two zoomed out ones and there are some differences in there. They look like differences in scaling or sharpening as when I zoom in it is clear that what is happening is that the bright pixels get exaggerated somewhat, not color differences. It is possible that jpegs get scaled down differently than raw files are in Develop which would actually be expected from how I understand camera raw works. Since the zoomed-in view is basically identical I would throw this one to the scaling algorithm used in Develop. It does tend to not be very reliable to judge sharpness when zoomed out.

                                                  • 24. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                                    kasperil7167361 Level 1

                                                    Then why before all this my images were always identical when looked develop and zoomed out, no difference at all. But now all the images shows difference?

                                                    • 25. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                                      kasperil7167361 Level 1

                                                      And befote i also used sharpening for screen and it didnt do this kind of difference. Now it makes the difference even bigger

                                                      • 26. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                                        Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        >used sharpening for screen

                                                         

                                                        Sharpening for screen only does something when you scale down the image on export. So export to a 1200x800 pixel for example and take a look at a export sharpened and unsharpened image. If you do not scale on export, the scaling is done by the program that displays the image. Many different scaling algorithms are used and the perceived sharpness is very much a function of that. Bottom line is that you can't control the appearance of an image if you don't export to the exact pixel for pixel size your image is going to be seen at. There is nothing Lightroom can do about that. Also note that Lightroom scales images very differently in the Develop module than in the Library module for example and you'll see large differences between Library and Develop if you looked zoomed out and look at small detail on screen. This is especially an issue for very noisy images where in Develop they will look like they have no noise and then back in Library they suddenly turn noisy again.

                                                         

                                                        Concerning your issue, scaling down raw files is done very differently in Develop where the image is directly rendered from a subsampled version of the raw file while in Library it is scaled from a jpeg preview that was rendered from the raw. This makes that these two reviews can never be the same pixel for pixel. Then when you render a jpeg original in Develop, you end up downscaling the jpeg and then doing the Develop rendering pipeline on that. This will give very subtly different results than rendering from the original raw. This also explains why the exported jpeg looks very similar to the original file in Library but looks different in Develop. This has always been that way.

                                                         

                                                        Now, It is possible that Adobe recently subtly changed the scaling algorithm in Develop and that that has made the issue somewhat more visible in these images.

                                                        • 27. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                                          kasperil7167361 Level 1

                                                          Thanks for your answers! I have one more guestion. why this difference happens even when im editing in ps an then put it back to lr. Then it is psd format. And how can i know how my picture will look example on web of it changes when i export? Maby dumb huestions but

                                                          • 28. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                                            Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                            psd and jpeg are functionally the same thing in Lightroom. They are demosaiced files and no longer raw. If none of the colors are outside of sRGB in your images, doing a roundtrip to Photoshop and generating a 16-bit prophotoRGB psd file should look exactly the same as a sRGB jpeg of high enough quality setting in export. There should be no visible difference. Raw however is structurally different. Raw files are mosaiced using the Bayer mosaic. Every pixel has only one color channel associated as every pixel on your sensor has a different color filter in front of it. Then the raw converter has to mathematically interpolate the color information at every single pixel. How well a raw algorithm does this determines the final sharpness of the image and is the basis of why some people say a certain raw converter does better than the other. Now when you are working in Develop, Lightroom does not scale down the raw image to the resolution of the screen from a fully rendered image at full resolution. However, it subsamples the Bayer mosaiced data at a resolution somewhat larger than that of the screen (but smaller than the resolution in the actual file!) and downscales from that and then slightly sharpens. With jpeg and psd files it does not subsample but it scales down to screen resolution since it does not have to do the demosaicing algorithm! This gives subtly different visual results that impact the on-screen pixel level sharpness.

                                                             

                                                            >And how can i know how my picture will look example on web of it changes when i export?

                                                             

                                                            Unfortunately, you can't know absolutely sure. The display in Develop approximates what happens if you scale the image to the same displayed size upon export and apply medium screen sharpening and display the image 1:1 on your display. It's not perfect but close. Best bet is to check your exports displayed at 1:1. In Library what you see is more akin to scaling down and not applying any output sharpening. The problem really is that there is no standard for scaling and display sharpening at all and so if you export at larger sizes than your image is going to be displayed, you surrender to the scaling algorithm in the browser that people use, the web service that you use to store your images, etc. All of these will have different results! My own website (here on on smugmug) for example automatically sharpens scaled images that I upload at their full resolution for display at the resolution they are viewed but very few websites do this.

                                                             

                                                            • 29. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                                              kasperil7167361 Level 1

                                                              Now, It is possible that Adobe recently subtly changed the scaling algorithm in Develop and that that has made the issue somewhat more visible in these images.

                                                               

                                                              So if that has happened i should see the difference also in older pics but they Are still identican in develop?

                                                               

                                                              And those 1:1 screenshots i shared are taken from fullscreen mode. is otsame if i do it non full screen and then screenshot

                                                              • 30. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                                                Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                You should always have been able to notice these differences in Develop. I certainly have seen these small differences in high detail or high noise areas before. I don't think that anything has changed recently but I was throwing it out as a possibility. The degree of difference should be different when viewing the image at different sizes on the screen.

                                                                • 31. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                                                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  A 2nd interpolation is applied in Fit or Fill Zoom view to resize the image in the preview window, which causes a slight softening of the image If you use the pyramid Zoom view settings (1:16, 1:8, 1:4, 1:3, 1:2, 1:1) the Develop and Library module previews should look near identical. .

                                                                  • 32. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                                                    kasperil7167361 Level 1

                                                                    Then when im soft proofing to Srgb should it look like exported jpg or could there be difference? And which one is nearer the one that i put in the internet, edited raw or the one i export from the edited raw 

                                                                    • 33. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                                                      Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                      The differences should be really small but you can't completely trust any. The view in Develop should mimic the appearance of an image exported scaled down to the exact same size as displayed and output sharpened low to medium and displayed 1:1 in an external app. The view in Library mimics more what you would see if you exported without output sharpening and potentially while scaled down by an external app to the same size. These are different scenarios. 

                                                                       

                                                                      >which one is nearer the one that i put in the internet, edited raw or the one i export from the edited raw

                                                                       

                                                                      This depends on how you get it to the internet. In general the exported jpeg is going to be closer, however if you have complete control over how your picture is shown (i.e. your own website and it will only show on computer displays, not on mobile browsers), you can export at the exact right size and output sharpen in the export panel. However, if your image might potentially be scaled or displayed on mobile browsers that generally have high resolution (retina/hiDPI) screens, all bets are off. This has nothing to do with Lightroom just with the variety of screens you can encounter. Nowadays, you basically have to serve different images to highDPI browsers than to browsers on lower res displays as I detail here: Jao's photo blog: A much simpler way to serve retina displays the right images . Most photo serving websites (flickr, smugmug, zenfolio, etc.)  do this automatically for you luckily so you often don't have to implement this yourself anymore. This is all much more complex nowadays than it was before the appearance of these high res screens a few years ago.

                                                                      • 34. Re: Weird lightroom  problem
                                                                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                        The Develop and Library modules should look identical when using one of the pyramid Zoom view settings and not Fit or Fill. If they don't this is generally due to applying excessive Sharpening and/or insufficient Luminance Noise Reduction. This will cause the Library module preview and Exported files that are resized (Resize to Fit) to appear less sharp and lighter due to noise pixels being integrated with the actual image data pixels during the interpolation process. Proper adjustment of the Detail panel controls to reduce noise in the image when viewed at 1:1 view should correct any differences you are seeing at the pyramid Zoom settings

                                                                         

                                                                        kasperil7167361 wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        And which one is nearer the one that i put in the internet, edited raw or the one i export from the edited raw

                                                                        As has already been explained it depends on the Web viewer that is being used by the host site. If the posted image is larger than the view size on the monitor the viewer will "resize" the image data to "fit" in the window. If it doesn't also apply Output Sharpening then the image will appear less sharp..