15 Replies Latest reply on Aug 11, 2016 10:27 AM by Ann Bens

    What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?

    avz10

      I have not done any editing for the past few years and was suddenly given (to me), a difficult task. I have now just completed the editing of a wedding shot with 4 video cameras (I took some video and the other formats were from people who randomly shot), in Premiere Elements 14. The formats of the clips also differ. Due to the fact that there was so much overlapping of scenes and the complexity of the task, I divided the wedding into 7 scenes, each is a prel project/file e.g. bride dressing, the ceremony, etc. I did not realize at that point that it might be difficult to merge the projects. The final step is to merge these files so that I can render it as both BD and DVD.

       

      I initially bought Premiere Pro for the editing, having used Pinnacle for years, but I struggled too much with Pro and the different formats of the clips, adding music, overlapping, etc. I then bought Elements and was quite comfortable with the Expert mode. I think I am now ready to start using Pro.

       

      My computer specifications are:

      OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit; current version: 10.0.10586.306

      3,10 gigahertz Intel Core i5-2400; RAM: 8,00GB Dual-Channel DDR3; 64-bit

      Premiere Elements Version 14.0.64
      Premiere Pro CC 2015 Version 9.0.0

       

      These are the specs of a few clips (from MediaInfo) (Some of these could have been converted as they were only given to me a while after the wedding):

      1. Codec: AVC; Variable bit rate; Bit Rate 16.4 Mbps; 1920 x 1080i; Frame rate: 25 fps; Sound: AC-3; Bit rate: 256 Kbps
      2. Codec:  H.263; Constant bit rate; Bit Rate 36.6 Mbps; 1920 x 1080p; Frame rate: 25 fps; Sound: AAC; Bit rate: 192 Kbps
      3. Codec: AVC; Variable bit rate; Bit Rate: 24 Mbps; 1920 x 1080i; Frame rate: 25fps;Sound: AAC; Bit rate 96 Kbps
      4. Codec: MPEG Video; ?Variable or Constant Bit Rate; Bit Rate 25 Mbps; 1440 x 1080i; Frame rate: 25 fps

      Sound: MPEG Audio AC-3; Bit rate: 384 Kbps

       

      I tried to read as many threads as possible regarding this, but could not find a lot on the internet and most threads/tutorials are quite old and refer to previous versions of Premiere Elements. I tried to merge with Premiere Pro, having read this (https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/importing-sequences-clip-lists-libraries.html; http://www.mediacollege.com/adobe/premiere/pro/import/), but I struggled, as in both references, there was either too little info or the guideline was not clear to me.

       

      I also saw threads on clipboard extenders (ClipMate and Spartan Lite) https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1148100 I downloaded Spartan Lite, but that appeared pretty confusing.

       

      I am quite comfortable to use intermediate files (https://forums.adobe.com/thread/875797?tstart=0) as I have enough space on my hard drives, but does one loose quality? On the other hand, I suppose it might be good for me to start using Premiere Pro now.

       

      What is the current consensus?

       

      Then I have another question and I am not sure if I need to open a new thread for this. As I have showed above, the clips all have different specs and some of the prel files are save as 1440 x 1080 (where the scene starts with a nr 4 clip, others as 1920 x 1080. I suppose I should have converted the clips all to the same specification prior to editing, but I did not. There was so much work involved with this process that I cannot think of changing them to one format and then replace the current clips, etc. With the rendering, will the different specs be an issue?

       

      A last question- I suppose I only need to render to BD and DVD specs or should I also render the whole project to a lossless format to keep for possible future use??

        • 1. Re: What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?
          Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          If you want to use Premiere Pro, render all Element projects to a file with a lossless codec e.g. Lagarith.

          Import those files into PPro and export to mpeg2-dvd for dvd and H.264 Bluray for BD disk

          Each format wil give you a video and audio file.

          Making dvd or bd is not build into Premiere but is a seperate program: Encore (comes with Premiere CS6)

           

          Number 4 can be exported to 1920x1080 for BD. All files need to be interlaced.

           

          On a side not you can also use Elements to make your dvd or bd by importing the lossless files.

           

          Importing prel projects into Premiere can be done. But you will loose a lot as Premiere does not support a lot of Elements features.

          • 2. Re: What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?
            whsprague Level 4

            I was slow to type.  Ann was faster!  Rather than delete my post as not relevant, I'm adding this note.

             

            I've noticed Ann's replies demonstrate far more experience than I have.  That includes use of Premier Pro.  Follow here advice.  That said, I respectfully think that using the Lagarith codec procedures do not produce significant benefits.

             

            My original typing:

             

            You've created a bit of a bag of worms.

             

            First choice is to stick with Premier Elements or start over.  Premier Elements projects will not load into Premier Pro.

             

            Second, there is no way to combine projects in Premier Elements.  You will have to experiment with some output.

             

            If it were me, I would find an output with a consistent format that uses the H.264 codec.  Yes it has some compression, therefore is "lossy" in quality but it is so good that I doubt any viewers would ever notice.   Another choice that technically is superious is to use the lossless codec calle Logarith.  I tried it as an intellectual exercise once and found the H.264 process worked as well visually.

             

            Once you have outputs from all four (seven?) projects with a consistent file type, you should be able to start a fifth project with the sole purpose of combining the first four (seven?).   The other choice would be to find a "video file joiner".  If the first four (seven) projects are truly complete and output to the exact same format, they could (theoretically) be glued together.  Various utilities exist that are supposed to do this.  I've never used one, so can't give any specific advice.

             

            Good luck!  This one may take some work!

            • 3. Re: What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?
              Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              You've created a bit of a bag of worms. First choice is to stick with Premier Elements or start over.

              I disagree.

              There are but two codec used. Bitrate is not that imported if its all different. All framesize are the same expect for the 1440x1080 which easily can be stretched to 1920x1080. All is 25 fps.

               

              Just export to lossless format, import in new project. burn to dvd or bd. Done.

              • 4. Re: What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?
                avz10 Level 1

                Thanks for both answers. I think that I will export one "trial" prel file with the Lagarith CODEC and one with the H.264 CODEC and then see if there is a noticeable difference. I will report back over the weekend.

                I suppose the projects and clips are a bit confusing. There are four source clips (in other words four cameras were used) which I used in seven projects or scenes.

                Thanks again

                • 6. Re: What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?
                  whsprague Level 4

                  Ann Bens wrote:

                   

                  You've created a bit of a bag of worms. First choice is to stick with Premier Elements or start over.

                  I disagree.

                  There are but two codec used. Bitrate is not that imported if its all different. All framesize are the same expect for the 1440x1080 which easily can be stretched to 1920x1080. All is 25 fps.

                   

                  Just export to lossless format, import in new project. burn to dvd or bd. Done.

                  I defer to your greater experience.  Perhaps I should have written "....start over with Premier Pro".  My reasoning was based on thinking Elements projects would not open at all in Pro.  But, I've never even tried to use any part of Pro.  

                   

                  As always, thanks for teaching me a bit of new knowledge!

                   

                  Bill

                  • 7. Re: What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?
                    whsprague Level 4

                    avz10 wrote:

                     

                    Thanks for both answers. I think that I will export one "trial" prel file with the Lagarith CODEC and one with the H.264 CODEC and then see if there is a noticeable difference. I will report back over the weekend.....

                    I look forward to reading how that works.  If you read this forum enough you might find one of the primary ACPs (Ann) likes Lagarith and the other (Steve) likes H.264.  

                    • 8. Re: What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?
                      Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I would not start over with Ppro either.

                      All footage has been edited all that remains is getting it to disk.

                      • 9. Re: What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?
                        avz10 Level 1

                        I do apologise for only responding now after such a long time. I did not do any editing during this period, as I was struggling with the Windows 10 Start Menu. I eventually could not open most of my programs and had to re-install Windows 10. It is fine now, but the preparation, copying, etc took quite a while. I will basically continue where I stopped, exporting and then importing everything into one prel file.

                        As I stated before, there are 7 scenes (the one below is when the bride was preparing for the wedding). As one can see, there are at this stage 2 cameras that were used- a Canon that recorded on tape (1440x1080)  and a JVC (1920x1080)

                        There are 2 things that I need advice on:

                        As this scene starts with the Canon, the settings for this project file are based on the Canon's settings 1440x1080. As most of the other scenes were taken with 1920x1080 cameras, this one is the odd one out. Ann, you mentioned previously that I should export the 1440 clips and import them as 1920. I am not so sure how to do it. This Record-00 video is one long video  and I deleted certain  parts of the video.

                        So:

                        1. Should I try to change this project file to 1920 settings? Is it possible?

                        2. How should I convert the 1440 to 1920 during rendering and then re-importing?

                        Screenshot mpg mts.jpg

                        Untitled-1.jpg

                        • 10. Re: What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?
                          Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          This HDV project is 1440x1080 Par 1.33 export to Lagarith 1920x1080 par 1.0.

                          You need to get rid of the non rectangular pixels hdv is.

                          What project settings do all the others have.

                          • 11. Re: What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?
                            Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Another option is to use Cineform, that is a visual lossless codec and produces files way smaller then Lagarith.

                            Download Gopro Studio and install.

                            this will give you the codec.

                             

                            http://shop.gopro.com/EMEA/softwareandapp/gopro-app-%7C-desktop/GoPro-Desktop-App.html#/st art=1

                            • 12. Re: What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?
                              avz10 Level 1

                              Thanks Ann

                              Again apologies for only responding now, but this time, it was again totally out of my control. I have just started to set things up, when Windows decided one night to update, leaving my computer in an unbootable state. I had this orange screen with an endless turning wheel. Enough to drive me nuts. I eventually re-installed Windows 10 with only the necessities to be able to finish this project.

                              To make matters worse, the notifications of yor posts landed in my trash bin!!!

                              Enough of that. Everything is set up and all the clips are linked to the prel files again. I downloaded GoPro Studio last night, but still need to look to see if the codec has been picked up by Premiere Elements.

                              I checked the project settings of all 7 scenes. The first and 6th scenes have these settings:

                               

                              Project settings Scene 1 and 6.jpg

                              The settings for the other scenes are:

                              Project settings all other scenes.jpg

                              Thanks again for all your help. Will hopefully soon to be able to mark "correct answer"!!

                               

                              Albie

                              • 14. Re: What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?
                                avz10 Level 1

                                At least I have made significant progress with my project. (But suddenly have no access to ANY Adobe site!!  Apparently a common problem looking at the number of posts about the issue)

                                Unfortunately this is a long post, but I would really appreciate any comments!

                                I exported the first scene (of 7) using both the Lagarith and also the CineForm codecs (I have read quite a number of articles about the CineForm codec and these articles were very positive about using this codec to create interim files). The size of the Lagarith codec for the first scene was 38.6 GB and with the CineForm codec was 15.8GB. I could not see any difference between the two on my computer, playing them on Windows Media Player as well as VLC Media Player. (The first scene had the mixture of 1440x1080 and 1920x1080 clips)

                                This is the media info for these 2 files:

                                Lagarith codec:

                                General

                                Format                                 :AVI

                                Format profile                       OpenDML

                                File size                                38.6 GiB

                                Duration                               13 min

                                Overall bit rate                     400 Mb/s

                                Video

                                Format                                  Lagarith

                                Duration                                13 min

                                Bit rate                                 :399 Mb/s

                                Width                                    1 920 pixels

                                Height                                   1 080 pixels

                                Display aspect ratio             16:9

                                Frame rate                           25.000 FPS

                                Color space                          RGB

                                Bit depth                               8 bits

                                Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                 7.695

                                Stream size                          38.4 GiB (100%)

                                Audio

                                Format                                   :     PCM

                                Format settings, Endianness      Little

                                Format settings, Sign                  Signed

                                Codec ID                                 :  1

                                Duration                                 :   13 min

                                Bit rate mode                            :Constant

                                Bit rate                                 :     1 536 kb/s

                                Channel(s)                               : 2 channels

                                Sampling rate                            :48.0 kHz

                                Bit depth                                :    16 bits

                                Stream size                              : 152 MiB (0%)

                                Alignment                                :   Aligned on interleaves

                                Interleave, duration                     : 999  ms (24.99 video frames)

                                Interleave, preload duration             : 1000  ms

                                 

                                Cineform codec:

                                General

                                Format                                   : AVI

                                Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave

                                Format profile                           : OpenDML

                                File size                                : 15.9 GiB

                                Duration                                 : 13 min

                                Overall bit rate                         : 165 Mb/s

                                Video

                                Format                                   : CineForm

                                Codec ID                                 : CFHD

                                Codec ID/Info                            : CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet)

                                Duration                                 : 13 min

                                Bit rate                                 : 163 Mb/s

                                Width                                    : 1 920 pixels

                                Height                                   : 1 080 pixels

                                Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

                                Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS

                                Scan type                                : Progressive

                                Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 3.149

                                Stream size                              : 15.7 GiB (99%)

                                Audio

                                Format                                   : PCM

                                Format settings, Endianness              : Little

                                Format settings, Sign                    : Signed

                                Codec ID                                 : 1

                                Duration                                 : 13 min

                                Bit rate mode                            : Constant

                                Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s

                                Channel(s)                               : 2 channels

                                Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz

                                Bit depth                                : 16 bits

                                Stream size                              : 152 MiB (1%)

                                Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves

                                Interleave, duration                     : 999  ms (24.99 video frames)

                                Interleave, preload duration             : 1000  ms

                                 

                                These were my export settings:

                                Using CineForm with the AVI container

                                Export settings 2.jpg

                                Cineform export settings.jpg

                                Cineform settings.jpg

                                These are the Quicktime settings. Please note that a different codec is possibly used??

                                Quicktime export settings.jpg

                                During my reading, it was recommended that the Quicktime container should be used and then the CineForm codec when using this container, should be used. I also tried this, but this did not work at all. It remained stuck on 0%.

                                Quicktime export.jpg

                                I was able to convert all seven scenes with the CineForm codec. I then imported them into one master prel file, where I made some minor adjustments.

                                Master project.jpg

                                My aim is to keep a master file, produced with the CineForm codec, a file with BD settings and a file to burn a DVD.

                                 

                                My questions/requests are:

                                1. Please review my settings and see if they are correct.
                                2. In numerous posts in forums, the quality of DVD's rendered and burnt with PE 11 was severely criticized as being poor. What are the general consensus regarding the quality of DVDs produced by PE14?
                                3. Linked to the previous question, there are so many suggestions regarding software to use when rendering to DVD-Premiere Pro, Roxio, Adobe Media Encoder, Pavtube Video Converter, Vegas 8 Pro, Canopus ProCoder Express, MPEG Streamclip,Total Video Converter Pro, Multiavchd or Lite, etc, etc
                                4. What is the situation regarding "Render At Maximum Depth"/"Maximum Quality"? I have read conflicting reports if it should be used or not.
                                5. And a last one, also linked to the above- I now have quite a lot of 3840x2160 video clips from my phone. These need to be scaled down so that I can play them on my TV. Any suggestions?

                                 

                                Here is one quote but talking about producing a HD video on a DVD:

                                The best is to get a copy of Roxio. Import and edit your AVCHD files as you want in Adobe, then export the file as an MPEG DVD, choosing a HD format like 1920-1080. This will link the audio and video (if you export as h.264 it separates the files). Then, in Roxio, choose the option "create dvds, advanced", choose "AVCHD no menus project---HD on standard DVDs". From here you can burn a high-def file to DVD disc, and assuming you have a compatible blu-ray disc player (this disc won't play back in dvd players), you will be able to view the disc in high def on a big flat screen TV.

                                 

                                Regarding settings for rendering as a DVD:

                                Video:

                                Up to 9.8 Mbit/s* (9800 Kbit/s*) MPEG2 video

                                720 x 576 pixels MPEG2 (Called Full-D1)

                                25 fps*

                                Frame rate:  coded - 25fps interlaced (PAL/SECAM only)

                                                    displayed - 29.97 (NTSC) and 25fps (PAL/SECAM)

                                Color space: color primaries and transfer characteristics

                                                    PAL - 5 (ITU-R BT.470 B or G)

                                                    matrix coefficients (RGB to YCbCr)

                                                    5 (ITU-R BT.470 B or G) or 6 (SMPTE 170 M)

                                Audio:

                                48000 Hz

                                32 - 1536 Kbit/s

                                Up to 8 audio tracks containing Dolby Digital, DTS, PCM(uncompressed audio), MPEG-1 Layer2. One audio track must have MPEG-1, DD or PCM Audio.

                                 

                                Total:

                                Total bitrate including video, audio and subs can be max 10.08 Mbit/s (10080 Kbit/s)

                                 

                                Any comments would really be appreciated!

                                 

                                Thanks for the input so far, especially for you, Ann

                                • 15. Re: What is the best option to merge seven prel projects-using an intermediate file; using Premiere Pro or using a Clipboard Extender?
                                  Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  1. I would go for Cineform avi.

                                  2. I have never made a real dvd with Elements, never will as I dont like the way it handles menu's.

                                  3. I would download a trial of this program, its has a very good encoders onboard: TMPGEnc - Products: TMPGEnc Authoring Works 5

                                  4. trial and error.

                                  5. Look in your tv manual what format and resolution it supports.

                                   

                                  the bit on Hd to dvd is rubbish, I would forget all about that.

                                   

                                  I see dutch titles on the avi's....