26 Replies Latest reply on Jul 11, 2016 10:50 AM by Bill Gehrke

    Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?

    mhattmck

      Hi, finished building my new desktop but held out on a GPU, I was waiting to see Nvidias new line up. I am thinking about using Premiere pro and taking the desktop to Uni when I go, the uni I'm going to uses Premiere so its perfect. I am not a gamer and will only use the system I have built for educational projects i.e. Films and VFX. my question is would you recommend an AMD Fire Pro W7000 over a GTX 1070 for premiere pro or wait for AMDs new line of Polaris cards?

       

      I would like to have reduced render times and realtime performance, taking advantage of the GPU  acceleration.

       

      My system is as follows:

      Intel i7 6700k (Skylake) I could not afford a Xeon!

      32gb Corsair 2666 MHz Ram

      512gb SSD OS/APPS

      250gb SSD cache and source drive

      Gigabyte Gaming 5 mother board

        • 1. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
          Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

          The best GPU acceleration is with a nVidia CUDA card but until nVidia/Adobe get the driver situation worked out I would not recommend the GTX 10xx series.  Do you have an old GPU card that you can use temporarily?

          • 2. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
            mhattmck Level 1

            I do not unfortunately, arent Adobe now making Open CL more standard?

            • 3. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
              RjL190365 Level 4

              Not exactly. In fact, Adobe has not updated the Mercury Playback Engine (MPE) itself in over a year now; in its current state, OpenCL GPU acceleration is still 60 to 80 percent slower than CUDA GPU acceleration given two revelant GPUs with equal memory throughputs and an equal number of GPGPU cores. Therefore, you might have to wait until the next major release of Premiere Pro CC in order to receive any updates on MPE GPU acceleration support and optimizations. Plus, there is a chance that Adobe might abandon MPE completely and make everything including rendering software-only (CPU-only).

               

              In addition, why did you select a four-year-old GPU on the AMD side? And with a memory throughput of only 154 GB/second maximum, at that?

              • 4. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                mhattmck Level 1

                What would you recommend?

                • 5. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                  RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                  if you are on a budget, the new $200 amd rx 480 is very good value and will have nvidia scrambling for a response. so even if you don't go with the amd card, when its released nvidia will have to answer by dropping the gtx 970 prices under $200, as the gtx 970 is slower. you could also check for used gtx 970's when the prices drop on new parts. the gtx 1070 will be about 2x as much money as the rx 480 but may only be anywhere from 25-50% faster in various software.

                   

                  alot of the new gpu benchmarks available are only for games, which is hard to compare for adobe software as nvidia continues to optimize their cards for games and the massive performance boosts they claim aren't so massive outside of games. this trend of focusing on games from nvidia will give amd cards the chance to catch up or pass nvidia in adobe software.

                   

                  if you will be working with lots of apps, some of which you aren't sure of yet, you will be better off with nvidia, as some software and plugins will only run on cuda.

                   

                  as for RjL's comment on adobe dropping gpu acceleration, i can't see that happening. if adobe dropped gpu acceleration, it would be the end of premiere.

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                    mhattmck Level 1

                    Do you think the 980 TI may drop in price? I don't know how important it is but does Premiere Pro rely more on Cude Cores than GPU Ram to speed up rendering and timeline playback? If so the 980 TI had more cores than the 1070 but only 6gb of Ram vs 8gb on 1070?

                    • 7. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                      RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                      with the recommended starting prices of the gtx 1070 at $380-400, it should push the 980 ti prices down around there, maybe $450. some prices will stay higher as they are now geared for people adding a second card in SLI, vs new buyers of single cards that will be buying the gtx 1070. looking online the msi gtx 980 ti cards are heavily discounted right now...  the 980 and below might not get priced down until the amd cards come out, as nvidia doesn't have any lower end 1000 series cards to fill those spots yet.

                       

                      cuda core count, the core speed, memory amount, bandwidth and speed all work together for the cards performance. nvidia does a good job of balancing the memory bandwidth and speed for the needs of the card and for certain price points. there isn't alot of benchmarks/info on how well the new gtx 1000 series cards are performing in adobe, but there is this early benchmark from puget.

                      https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/GTX-1070-and-GTX-1080-Premiere-Pro-Performance- 810/

                      looking at the single gpu results, there isn't a major difference between any of the top cards, but does show the 1070 holding its own with the gtx 980 ti. other tests including plugins and raw 4k/5k might show more difference between the cards...

                       

                      the new 1000 series cards are suppose to offer 10bit display output, something that was only offered on quadro cards before, as well as HDR. so if those features on the 10xx series cards work in adobe software, they will make for better future-proofing over 900 series. 6gb of ram on the 980ti should be enough for now, but the 8gb would also help with future proofing or other software that does use more vram than adobe software.

                       

                      if you have to buy something right now, the 1000 series cards are pretty hard to find as they get sold out fast. so finding a cheaper 900 series card may be easier and would avoid any software issues/bugs with the new 1000 series like bill mentions.

                      • 8. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                        RjL190365 Level 4

                        RoninEdits wrote:

                         

                        as for RjL's comment on adobe dropping gpu acceleration, i can't see that happening. if adobe dropped gpu acceleration, it would be the end of premiere.

                        My comment about Adobe dropping GPU acceleration is just a "what if" scenario.

                         

                        Still, I do not recommend that FirePro W7000 because that GPU was released in June 2012. It is the same GPU as the Radeon HD 7870  (which dates from way back in March 2012) albeit tweaked for workstation as opposed to gaming use. There are newer, faster workstation GPUs available at the same price point as that W7000.

                         

                        However, if the OP must have a discrete GPU while waiting for the bugs to be ironed out of the nVidia drivers for the GeForce 1000 series GPUs, I'd suggest that he go with a GeForce GT 740 with GDDR5 memory as a stopgap solution.

                        • 9. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                          JFPhoton Level 3

                          ....the NVidia 970, 4GB model is now at a lowered price. Your CPU may not have enough horsepower to push a 980ti to its maximum....even if overclocked to 4.5Ghz. Eric Bowen here on this forum can advise better than me. Currently, there are problems, like Bill says, with the new 10xx series cards and PPro that need to be corrected.

                           

                          After getting a 970, you may want to improve the performance of your system by using a NVMe PCI SSD as your non-boot drive....ALL files except OS, programs, and Windows page file would go on it. The 500GB Samsung 950 Pro is the best model for now at around $350. However, if you need more capacity, a new 1TB Toshiba NVMe SSD is available for $750. For best performance, it is important that your source files, along with your project files, be on your fastest drive. Bill has tested placing the "cache" and "media cache" files on the boot drive with no performance penalty. This also allows those files to be easily erased, as PPro would recreate them easily if ever needed again.

                           

                          The PCI NVMe SSDs will read at over 2GB persecond and write at about 1.5GB per second PLUS they are "bi-directional", meaning they can read and write data AT THE SAME TIME, unlike the SATA drives which can only read OR write, and not BOTH simultaneously.........this increases speed and performance because the latency is greatly reduced with the NVMe drives.

                                The SATA SSD will probably run at 500GB per second read and over 400MB per second write.....which in most cases is ok,but, under a heavy timeline with 4K footage, or, uncompressed footage, could bog down.

                          • 10. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                            RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant
                            RjL190365 wrote:
                            My comment about Adobe dropping GPU acceleration is just a "what if" scenario.

                             

                            the chance of that kind of "what if" is impossibly low to even bring up, unless you have some inside knowledge of a real probability. its more likely intel would drop desktop cpu's before adobe dropped gpu acceleration. you might as well bring up "what if" scenario's about adobe closing doors, or ice that sinks instead of floating, or if there were no round tires on vehicles etc. best to keep those day-dream "what if" scenario's to the lounge forum or casual conversation between friends.

                            • 11. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                              RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                              chances are the gtx 970 would be good enough for the OP's system. that's why i was pushing for the rx 480 and gtx 970 earlier. however if the OP is using other software besides premiere at school, there is a chance it may require cuda, and/or may also require more gpu power than the gtx 970. unless the OP has more info for the software to be used, we can only offer best guess advice.

                               

                              as far as storage, he may not need alot of space for the school projects. so swapping the 512gb os/apps drive around with the small 250gb source/media drive may be enough. if the OP wants a m.2 pcie ssd the samsung 950 pro is good, but toshiba/ocz is/was a terrible company with terrible products and should be avoided on principle. even if they have fixed those problems in this one drive, we should avoid recommending bad companies/products until they have a long enough track record without problems.

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                                ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                The Geforce cards always had the ability to output 10bit color. The drivers though were just limited to 10 bit color via Direct X.  Is Nvidia finally adding Open GL to the driver as well for 10 Bit output? I have not seen any reference to this yet.

                                 

                                Eric
                                ADK output

                                • 13. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                                  RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                  i haven't seen any specifics at the level you are asking. nvidia claims the new gtx 1000 series are the first to offer support for uhd (wcg & hdr) specs. i didn't see anything about the color bit depth (10 vs 12) or rec/bt 2020. i was hoping you would be able to test and report on how these features work with adobe and possibly other software, when you get a chance to test the new gtx cards...

                                  • 14. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                                    mhattmck Level 1

                                    I am also planning to start using Maxon Cinema 4D too for possible motion graphics work.

                                    • 15. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                                      Oscar Studio

                                      i just bought a brand new 1070 and its seems was a terrible mistake as is not CUDA enable card and my pc is having hard time to edit. i DONT know what to do? should i try sell this and get the 770 or 780?

                                      • 16. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                                        RjL190365 Level 4

                                        What are the rest of the specs of your (current) PC? (CPU, RAM, disks, etc.)

                                         

                                        And don't expect a fast GPU to resuscitate an otherwise subpar PC.

                                         

                                        Also, the list of "recommended" CUDA CPUs are only what Adobe has tested. The GTX 770 and 780 are now over two generations old, and are out of production and extremely difficult to find new.

                                        • 17. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                                          Oscar Studio Level 1

                                          X99 asrock exreme6

                                          corsair DDR4-2400 16X2 = 32GB

                                          I7 6800K 2011-V3

                                          GIGABYTE GTX 1070 9192 GDRR5

                                          SAMSUNG SM95` NVME SSD PCIE M.2 type 2280-D3-M, buklk 512gb

                                          Western Digital Blue hybrid Sata 6G TB

                                          • 18. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                                            Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                            What driver version are you using?

                                            • 20. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                                              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                              That is good.  Open a cmd window and run gpusniffer.exe

                                              Here is the result on my laptop.  I do not have a GTX 1070 to try this.

                                              • 22. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                                                Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                                Well gpusniffer sees it properly so Premiere should also.  I have had a couple of instances in the past where Premiere did not see the CUDA card when first opening but all I had to do was just close Premiere down and reopen it and there it was as an available option.

                                                • 23. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                                                  Oscar Studio Level 1

                                                  i have it available as an option but even when i switch from software to cuda option and backward I doesnt see any difference . its still slow for avchd files hd

                                                  • 24. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                                                    RjL190365 Level 4

                                                    Oscar Studio wrote:

                                                     

                                                    i have it available as an option but even when i switch from software to cuda option and backward I doesnt see any difference . its still slow for avchd files hd

                                                    Guess what? Your performance expectations are far higher than reality. You see, did you have any CUDA GPU-accelerated effects at all whatsoever applied to that AVCHD clip? Or were you trying to downconvert (scale) to a lower resolution? If neither of those apply to you, then Premiere will use only the CPU (a.k.a. "software only") no matter which GPU you're using.

                                                    • 25. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                                                      Oscar Studio Level 1

                                                      well i noticed something today ..

                                                       

                                                      when i was applying effect on my clip the yellow line above was being replaced by a red line

                                                       

                                                      now after trying again to gunsniffer and restarting the pc and the premiere 2-3 times

                                                       

                                                      when i apply an effect on the video the yellow remains yellow and no red line ..

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      i think its does working now for a reason i dont understand

                                                       

                                                      but anyway I have an oportunity to replace the GTX 1070 with an NVIDIA Quadro M4000  8ram

                                                       

                                                      and I think i will take it.  isn't the quatro better in anyway for premiere?

                                                      • 26. Re: Fire Pro W7000 or GTX 1070 for Premiere Pro?
                                                        Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                                        Only if you have an expensive 10-bit monitor that requires 10-bit output, or if you require a single width card

                                                         

                                                        I have a wild idea about why sometimes Adobe Premiere does not see the card.  This day and age of SSD's for the OS and Applications maybe they just are too fast for the software to see that the GPU is really there.