22 Replies Latest reply on Sep 4, 2017 2:38 PM by rodputnam

    Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?

    bfox411 Level 1

      Hi all,

       

      I produced closed captions in Premiere for a 23.976 frame rate video. Now trying to export the closed captioning file to provide to Amazon Video Direct...

       

      They accept the following as a separate CC file:

       

      • SCC (Scenarist Closed Caption) with a .scc file extension
      • SRT (SubRip text file format) with a .srt file extension
      • SMPTE-TT (RP-2052) with a .xml file extension
      • STL (Spruce Subtitle File) with a .stl file extension
      • EBU-TT with a .xml file extension
      • DFXP Full/TTML (Timed Text Markup Language) with a .dfxp file extension
      • iTT (iTunes Timed Text) files with a .iTT file extension

       

      Of these Premiere seems to do SCC, SRT, and possibly SMPTE-TT and EBU-TT exports, but, I'm having troubles...

       

      SCC: Only export options in Premiere for SCC seem to be 29.97. No 23.976 option, so guessing this is out?

       

      SRT: Tried this but when I uploaded the file to Amazon Video Direct, I get "An error occurred while processing the captions/timed text file. This file won't successfully complete the encoding workflows."

       

      W3/SMPTE/EBU Timed Text File: Tried this export option with the 23.976 time code from rate chosen hoping it would produce an XML recognized by Amazon as a SMTE-TT or EBU-TT but the .XML file was not recognized as a proper file and rejected.

       

      Any thoughts on how to get out a working CC file for a 23.976 project??

       

      With thanks.

        • 1. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
          Chris@Table16 Level 1

          I also attempted this with every caption format available and all were rejected by Amazon Video Direct (all of them were that 708 caption style?).  And, of course, their support staff is unable to provide any other details which would help me understand what the problem is.  The .scc file also prompted an error called "no scenes detected".  I really don't want to pay another Amazon-approved company to do it, especially since we spent days typing out our audio!  I also see that Premiere Pro cannot import the sidecar captions file into a project so that I can see what it looks like; it gives me a format error.  Is this part of the problem?  What can be done?

          • 2. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
            BlueClover_JSS Level 1

            At least I'm not alone anymore! (lol)  I've been working on this problem for the last couple weeks.  I saw a post that mentioned a limit of "32 characters" per line.  So, I changed that - still didn't work.  (It's the same problem in 29.97 btw . . .)

             

            I've been trying to upload SCC files created in Premiere Pro CC to Amazon Video Direct and getting an error message of "No scenes were detected in the captions file. No timed text will appear and might cause unexpected results. Please submit a new file."

             

            I had already tried making an XML file instead, btw . . . didn't work ("ttml" error in file).

             

            I spoke with Adobe about it and they just looked at what I'd created and acted like "it's working [WITHIN Premiere Pro], I don't see a problem, talk to Amazon" and she didn't know what Amazon was referring to as "scene" either . . .  Amazon wouldn't even define "scene" as they use it.  I can SORT OF guess, I suppose, but it doesn't make sense!  Premiere Pro CC is either creating files with errors, or there is a compatibility issue with Amazon.  Either way, I'd like to see it addressed.

             

            Amazon says they need an SCC file, with Timed Text that is UTF-8 encoded. (And tell me to send it to a company - paying a lot of money - to have somebody else create the file. - Not gonna happen.  Nor am I going to pay over $1,000 for other software that will do what Premiere Pro CC seems to not be able to do.)

             

            The caption file I'm creating IS an SCC file, with Timed Text . . . Can either of you (or someone?) explain IF the SCC files created in Premiere Pro CC ARE "UTF-8 encoded"?  Or how to make them UTF-8 encoded?

             

            I don't know what else to do and this has been horrible.

             

            I'm working on creating my own on-demand TV channel - LOTS of video to create and this problem is killing me in my tracks!

             

            HELP??!

            • 3. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
              BlueClover_JSS Level 1

              I just spent an hour and a half on the phone with a very helpful and patient Adobe Customer Service rep.

               

              Bottom line is that he escalated this case to his supervisor.  So far, it's not even Amazon Video Direct specific, because he couldn't get the Closed Caption file (tried both SCC and SRT) to play on the VLC Player OR the Quick Time Player (both of which he downloaded on to my computer during our session).

               

              I'm HOPING that the supervisor can figure something out! 

               

              I'll let you guys know if I find out anything useful, and I assume you'll do the same . . .

              • 4. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                bfox411 Level 1

                Awesome. Please keep us posted!

                • 5. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                  BlueClover_JSS Level 1

                  Well . . . I will . . .

                   

                  But . . . So far, this supervisor has not gotten back to me.  And nobody has replied with any helpful info to my multiple posts either.

                   

                  I called for support last night and finally hung up after over an hour with no answer.  I was trying to get chat support also for over a half hour . . . no luck with either.  I guess late on a Friday is not such a good time to try to get help.  I will try next week.

                  • 6. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                    Chris@Table16 Level 1

                    I broke down and hired rev to caption the movie for $1 per minute of content.  Super fast.  Uploaded to Amazon and it was published in a few days.

                     

                    Shameless plug: Amazon.com: Full Frame: Frankie Murphy-Giesing, Charles Whitcomb, Jeff Baird, George Ausmus: Amazon Digital Services L…

                     

                    I love that Adobe has this caption option, but until it's fixed, I'm okay with carving out a little extra $$ in the budget in order to make it work!

                    • 7. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                      BlueClover_JSS Level 1

                      I finally figured some stuff out!

                       

                      With lots of help from Patrick Besong (of MovieCaptioner - he's the developer and VERY reachable and helpful!)

                       

                      Along the way, I discovered that UTF-8 encoding means that ONLY a limited amount of characters are allowable . . . you can find tables online that show you which ones . . . it LOOKS to me like that little musical note is NOT suitable for UTF-8 encoding, so I first scrapped that . . . then, it was mentioned that there needs to be 'buffering' between scenes for SCC files, so I adjusted the 'norm' for Premiere and made sure that the 'scene' that follows another scene has the NEXT available time instead of the SAME time (ie  if a scene ends in 2:03, the next scene would be automatically SET to 2:03 - so I change that to 2:04.)

                       

                      By far, most importantly, after using the trial version of MovieCaptioner and seeing the successful SCC file that it created was in CEA-608, I asked Patrick and it was confirmed.  SCC files MUST be in CEA-608.  Premiere allows us to create files in CEA-708 and never blocks us or warns us that when we try to encode an SCC file, it WILL NOT WORK!  You can EASILY SEE these SCC files by the way . . . just open them in a text editor, like Notepad.  When I looked at the SCC files that Premiere created from CEA-708 Caption 'files', they are mostly blank!  When I look at the SCC file created with the CEA-608 version - it's a beautiful thing!  (All code, but beautiful, because I know it worked!)

                       

                      So . . .  I created a new caption file in CEA-608 (with the adjustment of taking out the musical note, and adding the buffer - BUT I AM NOT 100% sure those steps were NECESSARY - but I THINK they are!  I don't think Adobe would tell us if that was a problem either, judging by no mention that to encode SCC files, you MUST choose CEA-608.).  I uploaded the SCC file created by encoded that file and - so far at least - it looks like a go!  I didn't get the usual rejection and warning "no scenes detected".  The circles are half-green still.  I have set the video for release on 9/2/16, so I'm not sure if those circles will go full green before then or not?  Do you know anything about that Chris? 

                       

                      Here are some notes from Patrick . . . and you can find MovieCaptioner (and the free trial) easily on the net.  (Although, for me, he helped me right out of buying his product - I am extremely grateful for his customer support!)

                       

                      You would need an MCC caption file to create 708 captions. SCC only creates 608 captions, but if your broadcaster can upconvert them, then SCC is fine. I'm working on the MCC format but it may be a bit before that's available to previous purchasers.

                       

                      As far as timing goes, it's good to have a blank caption at 00:00:00.00 in MovieCaptioner if the captions don't start right away. Also, there is a buffer time that the SCC format requires that will almost always delay the first caption. The captions have to be buffered prior to being displayed on the screen, which works out to be about 1 frame per every 4 digit hexidecimal code that you see if you open the SCC file in a text editor.

                       

                      MovieCaptioner's strong point is its efficiency in creating captions, unlike many other programs where you have to cue up the video and type the caption. You will find that MovieCaptioner will cut your transcription time considerably over many other solutions, but that's your call. Hope you found the demo to be at least helpful.

                       

                       

                      BTW, his product is only a hundred bucks - real cheap compared to other solutions!  (Like I said though, for me, I'll create them right in Premiere Pro CC, now that I know how!!!)

                      • 8. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                        brianm31320187 Level 1

                        Chris@Table16,

                         

                        What is the full name of the captioning service you used? I spent hours and hours captioning an 80 minute film and am having a similar issue where the .scc file I export breaks up or jumbles my captions and they're not sticking to the same frame rate because I had no other choice but to export in 29.97 instead of 23.976. I tried putting a buffer space between frames throughout and took out the music notes and am still getting the jumble-spacing effect when I export so I think it has to be the fps. 

                         

                        I'm on a tight budget and strict deadline to get this to my aggregator for distribution. My aggregator referred me to a company that would caption for $6 per finished minute.

                         

                        Thanks

                        • 9. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                          Chris@Table16 Level 1

                          Rev.com.  $1 per minute.  Worked great.  Now, having said that, I haven't actually watched with the captions on, so for all I know they just listed the names of people they've had intimate relations throughout my movie, but it was good enough for Amazon!  Ha!

                          • 10. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                            joshb88988268 Level 1

                            I've been having the same problem. I tried different types of CC files. I original was using 708 style because the video I watched on how to do the captions used it! What finally worked for me was .srt and I made sure that none of the time codes overlapped each other. You can use the little musical symbols because that worked for me.

                             

                            Now, I thought I had it all figured out and used the same setup for another video, but I got rejected. I couldn't figure out what I did wrong, so I searched and found this post. I didn't know you could open the .srt or SCC with text editor, until now! Doing that I think I found the major problem, at least for me anyway. On some of the lines I had "<i><b><u><font color=#00000000></font></u></b></i>" before or after my text.

                             

                            I went back and looked at my first video that had already cleared with Amazon. There wasn't a single line of "<i><b><u><font color=#00000000>" in there.  I took all of those out and uploaded the new .srt file. I have not seen the red half circles and it's been over 4 hours now. My error messages have always showed up in the first hour.

                            • 11. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                              KevinTheJames Level 1

                              Any further luck on your end?

                               

                              I've been spinning on this exact issue for two days. I created a 608 series of captions in Premiere, exported them as SRT, and added them to my Amazon video with the timecode selected as 23.976 (matching my project's sequence settings). SRT seems to only be able to generate with millisecond timecode, though, and I wonder if that's goofing something up.

                               

                              This gentleman on Creative Cow seems to have had good luck with exporting SRT from Premiere and uploading the captions without any edits right to Amazon Video Direct by sticking to 24p content with .srt and 29.97 as .scc.

                              • 12. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                                joshb88988268 Level 1

                                Yes, I got it to work.

                                Make sure you pick CEA-608 for you captions file.

                                Go through and type up all your captions.

                                 

                                Before rendering go back through the IN & OUT times on your captions. Make sure that none of your OUTs have the same time as your next IN.  Example - {IN 00;00;02;11   OUT 00;00;04;15}  {IN 00;00;04;15   OUT 00;00;08;14}

                                The first out 4;15 matches the next IN.  Just change the IN to 04;16 and you should be ok. Go through the whole thing after you typed up the captions even if you think you didn't make the mistake while writing them. I missed a few when I was doing it and had to rerender.

                                Premiere automatically puts the next IN as the last OUT.

                                 

                                After rendering open the .SRT file with notepad and do a search for this: <i>   or the word font color.   Delete any that pop up.

                                You want your .SRT to look like this:

                                1

                                00:00:11,711 --> 00:00:15,048

                                SERIOUS MUSIC MIXED WITH THE BEEPING

                                 

                                2

                                00:00:15,081 --> 00:00:18,318

                                In a room with a ticking time bomb

                                 

                                3

                                00:00:18,351 --> 00:00:22,222

                                and the only idea you have is

                                to put a CARDBOARD BOX ON IT!?

                                 

                                Just save the file and that should be it! Anything else written in the .SRT just screws up sending it to Amazon.     Hope this helps.

                                My series Kick *** Cops is up on Amazon and that is the what I did to get it to work.

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                                  markus-goldenganeshavideo Level 1

                                  Hi Folks,

                                   

                                  We experienced exactly the same problem here at Golden Ganesha Video. Our new movie "Anja" was rejected 20 times by Amazon Video Direct until we found a solution.

                                   

                                  At first, we opened a SCC-File from a older movie which was accepted by AVD. It looked like this:

                                   

                                  code1.jpg

                                  As you can see, there is always one line with many code. It contains informations about your captions. Below is one single line which contains only a stop code (942c).

                                   

                                  We opened the SCC-Sidecar-File for our new movie and discovered that:

                                   

                                  code2.jpg

                                   

                                  Adobe Premiere has divided the code which contains informations about the caption in two parts and copied the second part in a new line. Amazon cannot handle this. They think, the second line is a new caption and reject it, because it is to complete.

                                   

                                  We copied the second line with code in the first line and deleted the unnecessary timecode in the second line. Now the SCC-File looks like this:

                                   

                                  code3.jpg

                                   

                                  Again, we have just one single line with code for the captions and one line for the stop code.

                                   

                                  After rebuilding the code this way, Amazon Video Direct accepted our new movie without problems.

                                   

                                  We hope this solution may help all movie producers. Sorry for my english, we are no native speakers. If anybody needs more help or a good meditation for better health and creativity visit us on Golden Ganesha Video.

                                   

                                  Kind regards,

                                   

                                  Markus

                                  Chief Producer Golden Ganesha Video

                                  • 14. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                                    ryanp57047828 Level 1

                                    This worked for me, too.

                                     

                                    And I watched both episodes of Kick-*** Cops. So enjoy the 15 cents, you've earned it.

                                    • 15. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                                      WinEnt Level 1

                                      I have 2 titles on Amazon Video Direct and spent many hours trying to figure this out, but this is what's worked for me:

                                       

                                      I export my main Amazon Video Direct mezzanine file as 29.97 fps NOT 23.976. THIS IS CRUCIAL! Even though Amazon accepts 23.976 it's the 29.97 fps version that will be compatible with the .SCC file.

                                       

                                      STEP 1:

                                      Export video (mezzanine) file to Amazon VOD specs:

                                      • H.264
                                      • 29.976 fps
                                      • Recommended Bitrate for HD Resolution: 30 Mbps

                                       

                                      I then re-import that mezzanine file into the project and create a new sequence from it by right clicking and selecting "New Sequence from Clip". It should automatically be created in 29.97 fps since the file was exported as such.

                                       

                                      STEP 2:

                                      Create a NEW CAPTION as:

                                      • Timebase: 29.97 fps Non-Drop-Frames (Click OK)
                                      • Standard: CEA-608
                                      • Stream: CC1 (Click OK)

                                       

                                      STEP 3:

                                      Create your captions, but LEAVE THE FIRST ONE EMPTY. Leave the 'In' Point at 00:00:00:00 and drag the 'Out' Point to the point where you will begin the second slide. So your first caption should begin on your second slide.

                                       

                                      STEP 4:

                                      Once your done with your captions export them as:

                                      • Export options: Create Sidecar file
                                      • File Format: .scc
                                      • Frame rate: 29.97 fps NDF

                                      Since you've already exported the main file that will be uploaded to Amazon, you only need the .scc file, but Premiere forces you to export video/audio along with the Sidecar, so I just choose the audio to make the export quick. I then delete the audio file since I don't actually need it. I put my mezzanine file and .scc file in a folder labeled "Amazon Video Direct" and secure them on an external drive.

                                       

                                      That's it!

                                       

                                      It's a bit tedious, but quite simple once you know how. You should be able to upload the mezzanine file and .scc without a hitch!

                                      1 person found this helpful
                                      • 16. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                                        joshb88988268 Level 1

                                        I'll spend that 15 cents on something good!  Glad you liked it. The final two episodes will be up in Jan/Feb.

                                        • 17. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                                          Genursus Level 1

                                          I was having this same problem and your solution actually worked for me. Thanks!

                                           

                                          To reiterate:

                                           

                                          Open the SRT and remove this type of 'gibberish': <i> (which appears in front of and after some of the captions)

                                           

                                          Also, there's occasionally this. I found about three of these scattered here and there: <i><b><u><font color=#00000000></font></u></b></i>

                                           

                                          If you have these, you'll see them. Removing them is easy, but tedious and a little time consuming.

                                           

                                          I typed all the captions myself. It took hours and I wasn't about to give up and have to pay.

                                           

                                          By the way, the 'mezzanine' (video) file does NOT have to match the FPS of the caption file. I uploaded the video at 23.97 and the captions at 29.97NDF. I'm not able to check if it brings it out of sync or not, but Amazon allowed it to 'publish' on their site after I fixed it.

                                           

                                          I should also point out that I changed the in/out points so they aren't the same (as suggested above as well). Very tedious and time consuming as well.

                                           

                                          Glad I found this solution.

                                           

                                          Thanks again!

                                          • 18. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                                            spacerex1 Level 1

                                            Genursus  wrote

                                            By the way, the 'mezzanine' (video) file does NOT have to match the FPS of the caption file. I uploaded the video at 23.97 and the captions at 29.97NDF. I'm not able to check if it brings it out of sync or not, but Amazon allowed it to 'publish' on their site after I fixed it.

                                             

                                            Wow. I just spent days pains-takingly captioning a feature film in Premiere and this all comes as hard news. No CC out of Premiere has worked for me in VLC. I haven't even tried uploading to Amazon yet. What's the point of a feature that doesn't work in any standard outside of itself?

                                            1. Do I need to go through and bump every single caption one frame away from the default?(I read from joshb88988268 that there needs to be a buffer between captions--that you can't end one and begin the next on the same frame--which begs the question, "why is this Premiere's default?") If that even IS the problem, is there a way to automatically do this--after the fact? I have a LOT of captions.
                                            2. Has Genursus' 23.97/29.97 solution (quoted) worked?
                                            • 19. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                                              Really Nice Content Level 1

                                              I've just output CCs as XML choosing 'milliseconds' NOT frame-rate.

                                               

                                              I then opened the XML in Text Edit to manually change the final . to a , in the time-code. ie. 00:00:00,000

                                               

                                              And it works!

                                              • 20. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                                                natem617951 Level 1

                                                .SCC files do not support 23.976/24 FPS timecode as 24 fps DVD encodes (where .scc files come from) retain 29.97 TC. This can cause rounding errors.

                                                 

                                                Export your subtitles in .XML format, Amazon will accept that.

                                                • 21. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                                                  rodputnam Level 1

                                                  I tried that and Amazon now says the file contains a TTML error

                                                  • 22. Re: Exporting Closed Caption File for a 23.976 Project?
                                                    rodputnam Level 1

                                                    I tried that exporting as XML  and Amazon now says the file contains a TTML error