18 Replies Latest reply on Jul 2, 2016 5:48 AM by RoninEdits

    Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?

    Mika Knarf Level 1

      Hey everyone,

      I excusively shoot RED DRAGON mostly in 5K and built a new Computer to be able to play back my R3Ds native in a 4K timeline in Premiere Pro CC.

      But even with only one layer in my timeline, my system only plays back the first few seconds fluidly, then begins to stutter, get choppy.

      In half resoloution one layer works fine, but as soon as I place a second on top, the same thing happens.

      I already read a lot online and tried several things - using a earlier version of the GPU driver, changing several settings in PP, but nothing helped.  

      I'm a bit bummed cause I thought with these specs (see below) it shouldn't be a problem. What do you guys think?

       


      COMPUTER SPECS:

       

      MB: Gigabyte GA-X99P-SLI

      CPU: Intel i7-6800K with Arctic Freezer i30 Fan

      GPU: Nvidia GTX 970 Strix

      MEMORY: 32GB RAM DDR-4 3000

      POWER: Corsair 1000W

       

      STORAGE:

      1x SSD Samsung 850 500GB: For OS, Applications

      1x SSD Samsung 850 500GB: for Projects, Cache, Scratch disk, Previews, Renders

      RAID for Footage with 5x 4TB Seagate SSHD Hybrid: 2xStripe, 2x Mirror, 1x Spare

      1x 3TB Seagate Baracuda: for Documetns, Fotos, Music, etc.

       

      OS: Windows 10 Professional 64bit

      Adobe Creative Cloud 2015.3

       

      CASE: Nanoxia Deep Silence 6

       

        • 1. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
          Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          What graphics driver are you using?

           

          Have you unchecked "Enable accelerated Intel h.264 decoding (requires Restart)" located in Edit/Preferences/Media?

          • 2. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
            Mika Knarf Level 1

            I used the newest, then rolled it back several months to test, but nothing changed.

             

            Yes I unchecked "Enable accelerated Intel h.264 decoding (requires Restart)"

            • 3. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
              Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              If the driver is 368.xx it is not compatible with R3D.  Go back to 365.19

              • 4. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                Mika Knarf Level 1

                I rolled back to 365.10

                 

                EDIT: Updated back to Driver Version 365.19 but no changes

                • 5. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                  Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  One thing I found is before I unchecked the Intel h.264 decoding my memory usage of RAM on my 24 GB system got up as high as 23 GB.  maybe you have another memory bug.  Monitor it.

                   

                  Edit

                  Have you tested the performance of your media array?

                   

                  Your 4 TB SSHD is really only a 5900 rpm drive and for sequential reading of your media might really be pretty lousy.  You might test having your current project media on you second 850 SSD.

                  • 6. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                    RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                    perhaps the gtx 970 is not powerful enough for 5k r3d debayering, can you check your gpu usage when it plays back smooth (with one layer at half rez) and then check when it becomes choppy (full rez and/or dual layer)?

                    GPU-Z Downloads | techPowerUp   look for "gpu load" in the sensors

                     

                    is your cpu overclocked? and have you checked the cpu usage and temperature during playback?

                     

                    is your 32gb ddr4-3000 memory 2x16gb or 4x8gb? and is it running at 3000mhz?

                    • 7. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                      Mika Knarf Level 1

                      I did some tests. It's my first time so bare with me if I'm missing crucial information.

                      To me this looks like the CPU has to do all the transcoding/debayering work. Is that the way it's supposed to be?

                      TESTS:

                       

                      In a 1080p Timeline with a 1 minute long 5K R3D's scaled to frame size wich plays back fluent in Full- and Half Res.

                       

                      CPU:

                      In pause the CPU is at 0-3%

                      in Full Res playback all 12 cores go up to maximum 100% and stay there

                      in Half Res playback they go up to maximum 100% for a few seconds then drops to 37% and at towards the end of the clip to 2%

                       

                      GPU:

                      In Pause the GPU Load is at 0%

                      in Full Res playback the load is around 12%

                      in Half Res playback the load at 4%

                      The memory used doesn't change temperature is fine

                       

                      MEMORY

                      in pause it's at 22%

                      in Full Res playback it goes up to 37%

                      in Half Res playback to 27%

                       

                      FOOTAGE FROM RAID OR SSD

                      mainly the same

                      In Full Res Premiere Pro reads up till 70MB/s from either drive

                      In Half Res both read up till 110MB/s

                       

                      If I do the same in a 4K-HD timeline in Full Res, playback get's choppy, the CPU stays up at 100%, GPU load is around 35% and Memory still stays around 35%, drives don't read more then 60MB/s

                       

                      To answer your other questions:

                      My CPU is not overclocked. I have 8 Memory Slots and am using 4x8GB. But somehow it seems to be running at 2133MHz instead of 3000MHz

                      • 8. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                        Mika Knarf Level 1

                        Okay I just tested something interesting IMO:

                         

                        I compared two Sequences again with 5K DRAGON RAW Material.

                         

                        1. 4K 4096x2304

                        - Scale set to 100%

                        - Playback resoloution to 1/4 what should equal 1024x576

                        - I stacked 20 layers without a single dropped Frame.

                        - CPU is up to 100% for a few seconds then drops to 35%

                         

                        2. HD 1920x1080

                        - Scale set to "Scale to Frame size"

                        - Playback resoloution at 1/2 what should equal 960x540

                        - I only could stack 3 layers without dropping frames

                        - CPU stays at 100% all the time

                         

                        So although the actual Playback resoloution is smaller in the 2. timeline, the CPU gets overloaded really quick.

                        My unterstanding is that the GPU also takes care of scaling the image. But that doesn't seem to  count for the scale to frame size option, that somehow is heavier on the CPU then leaving the footage in it's original size and lowering the playback resoloution.

                         

                        What do you guys think. does that sound right?

                         

                        EDIT: as soon as I set the scale of the Clips in the 4K timeline to 90% insted of 100% I again only can stack 3 layers before getting dropped frames. The GPU load doens't increase heavily. So scaling and scaling to frame size seems to be a bottle neck for me.

                        • 9. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                          RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                          very good testing. the gpu should be doing the debayering and scaling to reduce the workload on the cpu. some details about scaling in Premiere Pro

                           

                          im not sure why premiere is using the cpu to scale in your projects. i think setting mercury playback engine to cuda is all that is needed to enable gpu scaling, perhaps there is something more im unaware of. if its something broken in the latest version of premiere, such as scaling is broken or just scaling r3d is broken, you could try installing and testing premiere cc14. you can have multiple versions installed, like cc13, cs6, cc15 etc. if you need more specific versions, you have to download the update from here, Adobe CC 2015 Updates, Adobe CC 2014 Updates.  you could also try using different ways to scale, such as an adjustment layer above the footage and trying different gpu accelerated effects to find one that will scale on the gpu.

                           

                          overclocking the cpu and memory will help get the most performance out them, but won't fix this problem with premiere.

                          • 10. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                            Mika Knarf Level 1

                            Thank you Ronin,

                             

                            so so your guess would be a software problem and that my system should be able to perform, right?

                             

                            I will ill try to run CC2014 on my system.

                            • 11. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                              RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                              yes. cpu's are not designed to handle certain tasks, where as the gpu can do them with ease. this is a quote from that article i linked to in a previous post:

                              In some tests done here, scaling was more than 40 times faster on the GPU than on the CPU at maximum quality.

                              • 12. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                                Mika Knarf Level 1

                                Okay, it's not the Software. I tried CC2014. Same results. Although it does make use of a lot more RAM then 2015. It went as high as 24GB in 2014 in comparison to 14,5 in 2015.

                                 

                                So the questions/possibilities:

                                 

                                GPU

                                Is there a way to check if the CUDA Accleration is actually working?

                                 

                                CPU:

                                Simply too weak

                                 

                                MEMORY:

                                Why more Memory if only half gets used while Playback

                                 

                                STORAGE:

                                Why faster storage if only about 70Mbit/s get used during Playback and I can see no difference when playing the footage from the SSD instead of the 200Mb/s slower RAID

                                • 13. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                                  Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  To see if CUDA acceleration is really available, go to File/Project Settings/General and it should look like this:

                                  To see if you really are using the GPU download GPU-Z and under the Sensors Tab look at GPU load:

                                  I believe this was a 4K XAVC-S timeline on this very laptop.

                                  • 14. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                                    Mika Knarf Level 1

                                    Thank you, did that.

                                     

                                    CUDA accleration is available. And I tested the GPU load. See my post before. The load didn't Change that much

                                     

                                    GPU:

                                    In Pause the GPU Load is at 0%

                                    in Full Res playback the load is around 12%

                                    in Half Res playback the load at 4%

                                    The memory used doesn't change temperature is fine

                                    • 15. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                                      RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                      GPU:  Is there a way to check if the CUDA Accleration is actually working?

                                      what bill said/showed in his post. you can also add multiple gpu accelerated effects and lumetri color changes to see if the gpu usage increases. CUDA, OpenCL, Mercury Playback Engine   you can also try turning off  "Maximum Render Quality"  in sequence settings and export settings to see if that lowers the cpu usage and increases the gpu usage.

                                       

                                      CPU:  Simply too weak

                                      its too weak to handle what the gpu should be doing. that could be said of a dual xeon that is multiple times faster than your cpu as well. cpu's just don't handle certain tasks very well, where as a gpu can handle them with ease. once the r3d debayering and scaling is being handled by the gpu, the cpu workload should be somewhat low. like your test results in the second test post, first test, of 35% cpu usage.

                                       

                                      MEMORY:  Why more Memory if only half gets used while Playback

                                      32gb should be fine. setting it to run at its rated speed of 3000mhz might help the gpu perform slightly better.

                                       

                                      STORAGE:  Why faster storage if only about 70Mbit/s get used during Playback and I can see no difference when playing the footage from the SSD instead of the 200Mb/s slower RAID

                                      your disk usage stats suggest the raid config is not the problem.

                                      • 16. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                                        Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        " Why faster storage if only about 70Mbit/s get used during Playback and I can see no difference when playing the footage from the SSD instead of the 200Mb/s slower RAID"

                                         

                                        I do hope that those drive transfer rate numbers are all MEGABYTES/s and not bits.

                                        • 17. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                                          Mika Knarf Level 1

                                          Sure it's Megabytes, sorry for the mistake.

                                           

                                          Somehow I can't seem to get my GPU usage up. Even if I apply Effects it stays at around 14%

                                          • 18. Re: Why can't I play back 4K with these specs?
                                            RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                            some effects don't use much gpu power and some will require adjustments to be set/changed before it uses the gpu. adjusting all the settings in lumetri color can add a fair amount of usage to the gpu. if the cpu is being maxing out, then the gpu usage will be lower as its waiting around for the cpu to finish its work. if you skip scaling it should free up the cpu and allow the gpu usage to become higher.

                                             

                                            even at 14% gpu usage it suggests premiere is able to use the video card, but still has the problem scaling using the cpu instead of the gpu. i don't know of any other settings to control or force the scaling on gpu vs cpu.