19 Replies Latest reply on Jul 14, 2016 1:35 AM by Peter Spier

    Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)

    mrmister1 Level 1

      Hi

      I have a problem... and it is complex, because I need to produce the final job (document) with a certain order in the pages, and really I don't know how to do this with Indesign CC. I would really appreciate your help, and if you give me a step by step guide about how to make this.

      Okay, I'm sorry I don't know the word in english, but in Spanish the word is "compaginar", when you do this to the pages in your document "compaginar" (I tried to find the translation and no luck yet) what happens is the following:

      Let's imagine we have a 6 page document. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

      Okay, when we do this "compaginar"... the first page, 1 IS NOT CLOSE to the page 2... no no no... it is with the page 6.

      So first page, is with the last page.

      Second page, is with the penultimate page... and so on.

       

      Let's see this with pictures, so we can understand it better.

       

      Let's imagine I am doing a picture book about fruits! and we have 6 pages.

      Here is the order of my pages in Indesign CC

       

      pageordering_zps8qhhzttf.jpgAs you may see... the Apple (pag. 1) is close to the Apricot (pag. 2)... the strawberry (pag 3.) is close to the pear (pag. 4)... and so on...

       

      Okay. Fine.

       

      HOWEVER...

       

      When I am going to print this... I cannot print this in this way... because I will place a staple in the middle of both pages...

      So I cannot print page 1 close to the page 2... no no no

      I have to print page 1 close to page 6, page 2 close to page 5... and so on...

       

      Let's take a look about how the final pages printed should be, prior to the bookbinding process...

       

      61a1f392-89bb-4d8b-94fa-7a322432022f_zpsllukgb7z.jpg

       

      Do you see it?

      The blue arrow... is showing you how the places must be and of course they will have a staple in the midle.

       

      Okay, perhaps this is a bit complex to understand... so to make this more easy, I am showing you right now a picture with the book moving the pages...

       

      compaginarprimeraultimasegundapenultimaetc3_zps2mfdvnz5.jpg

       

      Do you understand this better right now?

       

      See how page 1 must be printed close to page 6...

      Page 2 must be printed close to page 5, however you are watching the reverse side, that is page 4...

      Page 3 is printed close to page 4... however you cannot see it because from our angle, we are watching page 2, but the reverse side of page 2 is page 3, and it is close to page 4.

       

      So basically, to print the document, I need the final composition be like this... because I will place a staple in the middle during the bookbinding process...

       

      ordendepaginascompaginado_zpsbis2t4yz.jpg

       

      To understand this even better, here I show you how are my pages ORIGINALLY and how they must be for the PRINTING process...

       

      Sin%20tiacutetulo-5_zpst1sbire5.jpg

       

      And the key question is...

      Please, how may I do this in Indesign CC?

       

      I would really appreciate your help with this.

       

      Cheers

       

      resizing pictures, correcting errors

        • 1. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
          Ian Blogs Level 3

          What you are trying to do is called imposing.

          Create printer spreads for booklet printing in Adobe InDesign

           

          Will explain how to impose but it is better done in Acrobat

          • 2. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
            mrmister1 Level 1

            Hi Ian, thanks. Imposing, okay. Thanks for the translation.

            I can export the document in PDF X/4 if needed... so how may I do this? what do you recommend me?

            • 4. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
              Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

              The correct—and only correct—way is to export the document as single pages!

              Let the imposing do the printer, he knows how to add material and move objects from the spine away due to the thickness of paper.

              It is not your task as designer to impose such a file.

              If you need to print a booklet, use the print booklet functionality in Acrobat.

              • 5. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                didiermazier Adobe Community Professional

                You could as well do it manually (if a small number of pages of course)

                At the beginning you have this :

                Capture d’écran 2016-07-13 à 10.34.35.png

                If you set up the section numbering option to begin to an even number let's say at 6, the first page will be on the left. Then just move the pages to reorganize them as you want.

                Capture d’écran 2016-07-13 à 10.35.46.png

                Hope it helps

                • 6. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                  Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                  I think you may find your second sheet is 5,2 not 2,5. A common error.

                  • 7. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    Aside from the excellent advice from the others, the type of imposed document you are creating (where the pages are attached at the spine) requires that your file have a multiple of 4 pages -- two pages on each side of the printed sheet. You can add blank pages where you want them, but physical pages 1 and 6 will never be together.

                    • 8. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                      Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                      Good point. 8 1 - 2 7 - 6 3 - 4 5. This assumes you are like most people printing on both sides of the paper.

                      • 9. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                        mrmister1 Level 1

                        Hi Willi and Ian and thanks for your reply.

                        Also, thanks everyone here for their replies.

                        I know this is a printer's task, but let's imagine I have to do it myself and I have to send the job finished to the printer, so they only have to print it.

                        I have an indesign document created, as you said, single pages (so I've unchecked the facing pages box)

                         

                        Here is the document if you want to take a look to it. You can download it from the following link.

                         

                        To download it, please, press the grey button, download with the browser...

                         

                        Don't worry about the low quality of the pictures, are just zoomifed icons...

                         

                        Okay... so now let's imagine I have the Indesign file and I want to export it to PDF.

                        When talking about PDFs I am always scared about losing quality... so I guess the only option is PDF X/4 right?

                         

                        Okay... I have to export it to PDF but I don't want to lose quality... so what should I select PDF X/4?

                         

                        Any recommendation in Indesign to export my Indesign file using PDF X/4 with the maximum quality?

                         

                        Okay... now let's imagine I have my PDF file and I open it in Adobe Acrobat.

                         

                        How may I impose pages there? What should I select... File... Print... Booklet? or File... Print... Multiple?

                         

                        I'm a bit confused about how to make the imposing in Adobe Acrobat?

                         

                        Cheers

                        • 10. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                          Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                          No, no, no!

                          Nein, nein und abermals NEIN!

                           

                          If you have a facing pages document you have to leave it as it is: AS FACING DOCUMENT.

                          Don't uncheck facing pages!

                          Exporting single pages means to uncheck spreads. No spreads, that is what is meant to export single pages.

                          You can't do the imposing properly. Let the printer do it. If the printer asks you for a preimposed file, take another printer. You don't have the knowledge (as most designers have not) how to do it properly, as you would have to add an increasing value depending on the used paper, and many other things. Please, don't do it yourself. You cause more harm to the final product.

                          • 11. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            When talking about PDFs I am always scared about losing quality... so I guess the only option is PDF X/4 right?

                             

                            There's no problem with PDF quality—unless you were to force a downsample to a low resolution from the compression tab. The default resolution and compression works for most printing conditions, but you can also turn it off.

                             

                            Your demo is 6 pages and 2-up imposition needs multiples of 4 pages. Acrobat's booklet feature will inset blank pages when the page count is not in multiples of 4. In your case the booklet's last two pages will be blank.

                             

                            Screen Shot 2016-07-13 at 10.31.17 AM.png

                             

                             

                            Screen Shot 2016-07-13 at 10.59.42 AM.png

                            • 12. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                              mrmister1 Level 1

                              Nein, nein und abermals NEIN!

                              Dios mio de mi vida, no entiendo Alemán pero está claro que no lo estaba haciendo bien (Translation: For God shake! I don't understand German but it's clear I was wrong).

                              Okay... relax

                               

                              Willi Adelberger

                              The correct—and only correct—way is to export the document as single pages!

                               

                              I think my confussion was about that point, when you said single pages... I understood not facing pages... seems to be I did not understand you well.

                               

                              Okay, I have my document now as facing pages.

                              I've understood this is a printer's taks, however, please, I would like to learn how to do this.

                               

                              Hi rob day!

                               

                              REGARDING THE PDF X/4 COMPRESSION OPTIONS FOR HIGH QUALITY PRINTING IN OFFESET MACHINES:

                               

                              • I am worried about if I should downsample or not the pictures?
                              • Unless you tell me otherwise I would choose not downsample and as compression zip...?

                               

                              I am showing you a picture (I don't use Mac, but this picture explain well the options to configure).

                              export_pdf_b.jpg

                               

                              What scares me about the PDF X/4 are the compression options I have when I am going to export...

                               

                              Regarding the PDF X/4 options...

                              Basically, what I see is fine by default, I guess I don't have to touch anything... if I want high quality, right?

                              I see...

                              For color pictures... bicubic resolution 300 / 450 ppi (pixels per inch) for downsampling...

                              I think 300 is enough for high quality printing, and configuring this as not reducing the resolution would produce huge files without any increase in the final printed product, right?

                               

                              Then for grayscale pictures... I have the same options...

                               

                              Then... for monochrome pictures...

                              1200 / 1800 for downsampling...

                               

                              Those values are enough for a high quality professional printing in an offset machine?

                              Or perhaps should I use Do not downsample? and as compression ZIP?

                               

                              I don't understand very well these options, so I would like to know if I have to change something to export with the highest quality possible?

                               

                              • When exporting to PDF X/4, in the summary I get a yellow triangle, is this normal?
                              • However... when I choose do not downsample... the yellow triange go away... perhaps should I use do not downsample?

                               

                              REGARDING THE ADOBE ACROBAT BOOKLET PRINTING

                              This is complicated... ufff...

                               

                              I see well... where are the options... File... Print... Booklet...

                              It's clear the way to work, you export to PDF X/4 maximum quality and now you use Adobe Acrobat to print, because it has this feature to make booklets...

                               

                              The problem is to make the pages match... I don't understand very well this thing of multiples of 4...

                              With a faced document of 6 pages I got...

                               

                              Blank page      - Page 1 (apple)

                              Appricot Page 2 - Blank page

                              Cherries Page 6 - Strawberry page 3

                              Pear page 4     - Banana page 5

                               

                              The options change according left or right binding and the number of pages (sheets from)

                               

                              Could you explain me this, please, with an example easy to understand?

                              I know this is a printer task, but if I am going to send a picture book made in Indesign, I should configure my Indesign document well, so the printer don't have to modify the organization of pages. For this reason I want to understand how to tackle this imposing problem.

                               

                              Cheers and thanks everyone for the support and patience.

                              • 13. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                Here's why you need a multiple of 4 pages:

                                 

                                Your printed sheet will contain two pages per side, and each sheet has two sides. 2x2=4

                                 

                                If you want the apple next to the cherry, the banana next to the peach, and the strawberry next to the pear when imposed you will need to add a blank page before the apple and another on after the pear to bring the page count up to 8. This will leave you with a blank exterior after the file is printed and bound.

                                • 14. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                                  Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                                  PDF/X-4 cannot be done via printing, only with Export as PDF. So it is impossible to create a PDF/X-4 with InDesign's print booklet functionality.

                                  Printing relies on PostScript. PostScript does not allow transparency.

                                  PDF/X-4 lives with live transparency and cannot be done with postscript. It is a cotradiction with itself.

                                  • 15. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                                    mrmister1 Level 1

                                    Hi Peter, I will do a test with your recommendations, and post tomorrow here, to see how this works thanks a lot

                                    • 16. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                                      mrmister1 Level 1

                                      I think we have a confussion here, or perhaps we are talking about two difference things, because concepts have been mixed during the talking.

                                      We have been talking about creating a PDF X/4 to export the Indesign file and use the printing process via Adobe Acrobat... printing a booklet there... and I said this because I was suggested to use Adobe Acrobat for print the booklet...

                                      BUT...

                                      Indesign CC has also a booklet print feature... so we can use also Indesign to print a booklet...

                                       

                                      Here it is:

                                      Mac_ID_Script_Loading_Step_2.jpg

                                       

                                      So we can proceed in both ways... or I export the Indesign file to PDF X/4 and I print there a booklet... or I just directly print a booklet in Adobe Indesign... for that reason I wanted to understand how to organize the pages. I will try what Peter said, and report.

                                       

                                      By the way, regarding the PDF X/4 I still having the doubt about if I should use Do not downsample, and as compression ZIP, to achieve the maximum quality???


                                      Cheers

                                      • 17. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Then for grayscale pictures... I have the same options...

                                         

                                        Then... for monochrome pictures...

                                        1200 / 1800 for downsampling...

                                         

                                        Those values are enough for a high quality professional printing in an offset machine?

                                         

                                        Yes those values are fine for offset printing. And images will only be down sampled if they exceed the "for images above" threshold" and Maximum JPEG compression will not produce any printable compression artifacts

                                         

                                        Indesign CC has also a booklet print feature... so we can use also Indesign to print a booklet...

                                         

                                        Depending on your print driver InDesign's Print Booklet can be buggy. If you are printing to a PostScript file and Distilling the imposed pages PDF/X-4 is not possible because postscript flattens all transparency. Whther that's a problem depends on the complexity of your file.

                                        • 18. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                                          Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                                          This resolution is ok, if not text is used. That is why, text and image have to be separated.

                                          • 19. Re: Problem composing pages in Indesign (page ordering for final print)
                                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                            Willi, I don't understand what you are talking about.