11 Replies Latest reply on Aug 13, 2016 10:32 AM by Mikey44MagBiker

    Rename leads to duplicate with SAME name


      I do quite a lot of renaming across several to many images, and use a custom 'name' plus 'series' to the set.

      Sometimes the set is contiguous files when sorted by file name, sometimes not.

      All seems to go great but then when reviewing, library loupe view, I move to the next image, it comes up, then a bizarre change happens and the image changes to another file in the set but has the SAME file name and extension.  Attached is a screen grab.DupeDNG2.JPG if I hover over the left image,
      the inset changes to " 1 of 2 ", the center " 1 of 2 " and the right has no inset.  I did not intentionally create the right one.
      Furthermore, sometimes the center image just disappears, but If I use Compare, it can reappear within a second or two most of the time.

      Any help?  These are scans of old legacy prints as part of a massive 11,000+ image project, within a catalog of 111,000+ images in a large 'My Pictures' folder:

      PicsFolder.JPG  My fear is handling original DSLR images long ago uploaded, the loss of which would depend on my backup system...
      Yipes.  That could get confusing!  Note, there is only one such named file in Windows Explorer.

        • 1. Re: Rename leads to duplicate with SAME name
          Bob Somrak Level 6

          You apparently had overlaps of the original files and file names and new filenames when you did the rename.  Lightroom seems to handle the rename correctly by adding -2 to the filenames but it doesn't seem to always recreate the previews for the overlap files.  I avoid this by first renaming to a LARGE sequence I know is not in the catalog and then renaming to my intended sequence.  For the  few times this happened before I figured out it was a glitch I ended up having to delete the previews and recreate them which also recreates the thumbnails. 

          • 2. Re: Rename leads to duplicate with SAME name
            Mikey44MagBiker Level 1

            Bob, thanks for both the explanation and workflow advice.

            I'm doing a complicated match to a spreadsheet record, packaging/inventory identification, and classification system for documents, photos, filmscans, video, and objects.  I often rename more than once, with the same long series but resequencing within the group.  I can see from your insight I cause my own confusion within the library!
            I'll incorporate the LARGE naming step to force a fresh new record.
            With appreciation noted again, I will close this inquiry within a day or two.


            p.s.  Recreating all my previews is a massive job if I delete them all,

                    ~ can it be done for a small group?

                    I'm assuming that's where the bizarre 'flip' to the new image comes from as I'm viewing it!

            • 3. Re: Rename leads to duplicate with SAME name
              Mikey44MagBiker Level 1


              Sorry for the delay, I'm in the middle of massive repairs to my house and was not able to organize the test.

              1. I selected the three images from my original post and F2 Renamed them to a very large file name sequence.  Forced1.JPG

              2. LR CC still claims that two different images have the same file name, with 'copy' noted when I compare the two....


              3. I then selected ONLY the middle image and performed a F2 rename on it, using single custom name.


              LR is still presenting different images {previews??} with the same file name.

              One is not the copy of the other.   I'm stumped.


              I'm wondering if this is a known bug? 


              I doubt if it has any bearing on the above, but LR {and Photoshop} will not cooperate with my graphics card.  LR freezes up altogether and PS pops up notifications that 'certain functions' will not work at all because of incompatibility with my system.  All such work is now done by my CPU.  These are recent failures after years of happy performance on this Win7/64 computer.


              Is there any way to escalate this?
              I need to progress with my project so I will delete all of this series and re-scan the legacy photo prints. 


              I remain in deep uncertainty:  If any original DSLR images fall into the same trap, all I have is .dng conversions of the original .NEF files imported into LR.  I have no way to untangle the trap/snare of proper renaming sequence.


              I will not go into a critique of Adobe quality control.  One of my previous careers was managing software testing {stress, regression, automated, and manual teams of experts} so I know the difficulties.   I wish though that serious attention be applied to bug fixes in higher priority than bells & whistles from the marketing advisers. 

              • 4. Re: Rename leads to duplicate with SAME name
                Bob Somrak Level 6

                Did you delete the preview file?   It's the one that gets messed up during the rename.

                • 5. Re: Rename leads to duplicate with SAME name
                  Mikey44MagBiker Level 1


                  No, because I do not know how to delete just one.

                  ForceDeletePV1.JPG I can use the menu to delete ALL previews but can't figure out how to delete just the problematical ones that are mixed-up.  I tried to search the folder, or use LR to target deleting just one, but it does not work.  I'm stumped.
                  The total rebuild in LR is quite a long process.  It would be far quicker to delete the dozen or so images in this little series and re-scan then develop the originals.  My goal is to learn how to avoid the bug, or fix any instance of when it hits my process. 

                  As an aside, when I make any substantial changes or sizable additions to the catalog, I do a backup with both 'test integrity' and 'optimize catalog' checked.  Even that takes quite a while, but does not seem to help this problem or fix any mixed previews... .


                  Should I try exporting the lot with 'not included in this catalog' then rename them in Windows, then import back in?


                  Thank you sir, for your time and attention. 

                  I'm 72 years old and you must be frustrated dragging an old buzzard through learning this application. 

                  I do appreciate it!


                  • 6. Re: Rename leads to duplicate with SAME name
                    Mikey44MagBiker Level 1

                    Upon further study, I applied the old HelpLine axiom "RTFS" for "Read The Friendly Screen"  {you know I cleaned up my language for the moderator}...

                    With a tiny catalog on my laptop, I just tried deleting previews and got the dialogue about 'all or just the highlighted...'

                    So tomorrow I will do just what you advise and see what happens.

                    It is too late, and I'm too tired for experimenting tonight.

                    Thanks again!


                    • 7. Re: Rename leads to duplicate with SAME name
                      Bob Somrak Level 6

                      I dont have access to Lightroom right now but I didn't think you could remove only selected "regular" previews.  I know you can remove selected "smart previews" but they do not have anything to do with this problem unless possibly your drive is disconnected.  For me this was a problem with the regular previews and the only solution was to delete the previews files and let Lightroom rebuild them.

                      • 8. Re: Rename leads to duplicate with SAME name
                        Bob Somrak Level 6

                        I am back at Lightroom now and I can only remove SELECTED 1:1 previews and SMART PREVIEWS which does not help with what is displayed in the thumbnails and loupe view.


                        Screen Shot 2016-08-08 at 6.05.09 PM.png

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                        • 9. Re: Rename leads to duplicate with SAME name
                          bhousto90 Level 4

                          It looks like you have a mix of Master photos and Virtual copies in that first set of three images.

                          (Virtual copies like the middle one have the little turned up page icon in the bottom left corner.)


                          When either the Master or any Virtual copy filename is changed then all other associated photos name also changes whether they be the Master or more virtual copies.


                          What distinguishes one virtual copy from others is the " Copy Name" which by default is "Copy 1" for 1st copy then "Copy 2" etc. unless you change the names. (This directly below Filename in the default metadata)


                          Trying to rename a combination of Virtual copies and Master photos into a sequence is going to be difficult as shown with your current order.

                          (It can be done as in your current photo order but you will have to start/Stop renaming so that it can skip the virtual copies, then fill in later)



                          It may work out better to have your master copies renamed into your sequence  numbering first then go back and edit the copy name for each of the virtual copy "Copy names" to the numbers next in sequence. (I do not think you can do this part automatically via a multiple selection rename so each would need to be updated manually)



                          Then when it comes to exporting: select the master photos only first without any renaming options. Next export only the Virtual copies but use a renaming template of "{Filename}-{Copy name}" this will give the virtual copies the same naming convention as the others.


                          Others may be able to instruct you on some other options but that Is what I could think of tonight.




                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: Rename leads to duplicate with SAME name
                            Mikey44MagBiker Level 1


                            You gave me the clue to resolve my problem. 

                            1. I removed all virtual copies.
                            2. I explored the rename popup and found “Original filename” as one of the bracketed inserts. I removed everything else in the popup to revert the whole series back to where I started.
                            3. Now:
                              1. I only rename a multiple image group when it is all original filenames,
                              2. and sequential when sorted by filename.
                            4. All else (such as small images of the back of a print with provenance) is done individually to add an alpha suffix to the file name.  This will associate an image with its note when sorted by filename.


                            Yes, it is extra work.  But …

                            IF doing a drag on an image to resort a group, which changes the sort from filename to ‘Custom’ and then placing the notes in proximity, and then renaming a disconnected group of highlighted images results in a mess of apparent duplicate filenames ~ it is NOT worth it… both infuriating and fraught with risk!


                            Thank you for your thoughts and the trouble you took to assist me with this.  I’m back to making progress with this project and am in your debt.


                            • 11. Re: Rename leads to duplicate with SAME name
                              Mikey44MagBiker Level 1


                              You are correct, I can't delete just one preview or even a small group. 

                              There is no way I'm going to delete them all because it takes about a week of 24/7 grinding this powerful PC to rebuild the set.


                              However, when I renamed the image back to the Original filename it eliminated all apparent duplication of files, images, and previews.  Not understanding the bug that led up to the outlandish appearance of my grid view has ceased to bother my software-critical mind!

                              Thanks again.  You did identify the fact that LR has kept my original file intact, regardless of what it presented to the user interface.


                              I intend to close this series of exchanges but will keep checking back a few times to see if there are any more insights.