18 Replies Latest reply on Dec 4, 2016 2:33 PM by BrendaTharp

    Keyword Inconsistency

    roszczipka

      Hello,

      I have a hierarchical keyword list but it doesn't apply the keywords in a consistent fashion. For example I have a keyword category called vehicle colors.

      Screen Shot 2016-07-25 at 4.50.29 PM.png

      When I type "Red" as a keyword it nests it within the "Vehicle Colors" tag.

      Screen Shot 2016-07-25 at 4.58.13 PM.png

      However if I type "Blue" it doesn't include "Vehicle Colors" with it.

      Screen Shot 2016-07-25 at 4.57.48 PM.png

      Any ideas on what I have done wrong?

        • 1. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
          Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

          You are in the Keywording section. that is for creating keywords and keyword sets. Go to the Keyword List section.

          • 2. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
            wobertc Adobe Community Professional

            I see the problem but have no answer-

             

            Being "in the Keywording section" is where the OP is adding a keyword.

             

            When you want to add "Blue" to an image, you should be seeing the suggestions that includes the hierarchy -

             

            Blue < Vehicle Colors

            Blue

            blue

            blue jean

            • 3. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
              Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

              Blue already exists in that hierarchy. If he wants to add that keyword to an image all he has to do is highlight the image or images then click the check box next to, to the left of, the keyword Blue in the Keyword list. No need to keep typing in that word in the Keywording section.

              • 4. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                wobertc Adobe Community Professional

                Blue already exists in that hierarchy. If he wants to add that keyword to an image all he has to do is highlight the image or images then click the check box next to, to the left of, the keyword Blue in the Keyword list. No need to keep typing in that word in the Keywording section.

                Yes all that is true and I agree, and keywards can be added by that method.

                But the OP is adding keywords to a photo by typing in the text box [Click here to add keywords]. If they pre-exist, selecting the correct one and then pressing enter just adds them to the photo (not another keyword added in the keyword list)

                 

                With the option set in Preferences- to Auto-complete:

                ScreenShot099.jpg

                When typing the letters "bl" the auto-complete function should show the hierarchy  "Blue<Vehicle Colors" for the OP.

                 

                My example is- when I type the letters "sam" in this text box, I do see where "sam" appears in all keywords that begin "sam"

                ScreenShot098.jpg

                 

                So the OP's question remains unanswered- Why does he see the hierarchy for "Red" but not "Blue" when both are in the Vehicle Color parent keyword.?

                 

                A possible answer-what I believe is happening- and maybe answer my own understanding!

                If "Blue" exists as keywords in multiple places- then the Auto-complete will show all keyword references to "Blue" including ( Blue<Vehicle Color)

                If "Blue"  does not exist elsewhere but ONLY in the "Vehicle Color" hierarchy- THEN we will see ONLY the keyword "Blue" without the hierarchy reference ( <Vehicle Color) This may be the situation for the OP.

                • 5. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                  johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                  If "Blue" exists as keywords in multiple places- then the Auto-complete will show all keyword references to "Blue" including ( Blue<Vehicle Color). If "Blue"  does not exist elsewhere but ONLY in the "Vehicle Color" hierarchy- THEN we will see ONLY the keyword "Blue" without the hierarchy reference ( <Vehicle Color) This may be the situation for the OP.

                  That's exactly right. Many people have gotten confused by this over the years.

                  • 6. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                    BrendaTharp

                    SO are you saying that he would have to have BLUE as a separate keyword as well as in the hierarchy? I ask because I have a similar problem as per below. I have created many nested hierarchies, and for example Utah works to give me Utah < USA < North America, but after I moved Tennessee into this list, I cannot get Tennessee to fill out with all the nested hierarchy like Utah does or other states. Why? This has happened to other keywords, too. Is this a bug in the system? It's driving me nuts, that I can't make use of the hierarchy consistently. So based on the last reply to this thread, I would have to move Tennessee out of the places hierarchy, but then why don't I have to move Utah or any other state out of there for those to work? Any ideas, anyone? thanks.

                    Screenshot 2016-12-01 16.57.11 copy.png

                    • 7. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                      johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                      I have created many nested hierarchies, and for example Utah works to give me Utah < USA < North America, but after I moved Tennessee into this list, I cannot get Tennessee to fill out with all the nested hierarchy like Utah does or other states.

                      I'm not sure what you mean by "fill out".  Can you provide screenshots of what's happening to Tennessee and Utah?

                      • 8. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                        BrendaTharp Level 1

                        Sure, but before that, I went into my keyword list and made certain it was 'clean' - I had found a few somewhat duplicated keywords or keyword nests, so I cleaned up everything and put Tennessee inside the USA keyword, which is inside North America, which is inside Places, and yet when I type Tennessee, I don't get the hierarchy auto-filling in the keyword box. It should, and one some I do get the auto-fill. So to show you that I am uploading one from Yosemite National Park. The hierarch of keywords you can see - it's inside California, inside USA, inside North America, and inside Places, yet when I typed in Yosemite, the auto-fill only shows me as far as California, not the rest. The same thing is happening to Tennessee. And, once I cleaned up the keywords so that I only had ONE places, ONE north america, etc., now when I type some of the other states, I don't get the nested keywords filling in either. Something's odd. It should work as follows, that if you put a keyword inside another one, from 1 or more levels, ALL levels should be auto-entering or 'filling out' when you type the base level - as in Yosemite national Park, but they are not. Hope that is clearer. I find keywords to be rather inconsistent in how they work, sadly. But thank you for any help you can give on this matter!

                        Brenda

                         

                        Screenshot 2016-12-02 15.07.02.pngScreenshot 2016-12-02 15.07.36.png

                        • 9. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                          wobertc Adobe Community Professional

                          when I type Tennessee, I don't get the hierarchy auto-filling in the keyword box

                          That is correct!  Lr knows that 'Tennessee' keyword only exists in one place of the keyword list (and hierarchy), but Lr is lazy and so doesn't bother to show you the full hierarchy in the auto-fill. 

                          If 'Tennessee' existed in multiple places then auto-fill would give you the options. As it does with your "Yosemite" example.

                          When you type 'Tennessee', Lr will add the keyword hierarchy 'Tennessee < USA < North America' to the photo.

                          • 10. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                            BrendaTharp Level 1

                            But it doesn't add them, even ignoring the auto-fill aspect of this. When all is said and done, both in Tennessee and Yosemite example, the keyword hierarchy never shows up in the final keyword list. I haven't checked what it does at export, but it should be showing up, right?

                            thanks for your help.

                            • 11. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                              johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                              But it doesn't add them, even ignoring the auto-fill aspect of this. When all is said and done, both in Tennessee and Yosemite example, the keyword hierarchy never shows up in the final keyword list. I haven't checked what it does at export, but it should be showing up, right?

                              Without seeing the screenshots of what the Keywording panel looks like after you add the problem keywords, it's hard to know exactly what you're observing.

                               

                              But here's a simplified example that shows LR's behavior:

                              There are two different California keywords, one at the top level and one under US, so in the Keywording panel it displays the second one as "California < US", to distinguish it from the top-level one. There is only one Tennessee, so it displays it in the Keywording panel as simply "Tennessee".

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                                wobertc Adobe Community Professional

                                + for John's reply above.

                                Also note that what you see in the 'Keywording' panel can be different depending on the view option beside "Keyword Tags"

                                ScreenShot027.jpg ScreenShot028.jpg

                                • 13. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                                  BrendaTharp Level 1

                                  Thank you so much for taking the time to try and solve this, everyone. I have Enter Keywords selected, as per above, and when I look at Keywords and Containing Keywords, the hierarchy isn't there, so it's just not loading right. I think I'm going to give up on this for a while and do more research. I'm faster typing things in than trying to use the keyword list, and even with auto-complete, I'm fast, so I'm getting things done at least!

                                  • 14. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                                    BrendaTharp Level 1

                                    I see what you are saying, John, but this proves my point, that Tennessee doesn't show up as Tennessee<US, when for other states it was showing up when there was only one, not two, as you show here for California. My issue started because typically I was getting the whole hierarchy to load, which saves a lot of typing, and puts all the things I need in place for stock submissions, but it stopped functioning consistently for all states, quite suddenly. sigh. Thank you for your help, seriously, what you are saying sounds sensible, but when I had two californias, they would both only show up if I entered both in the box to enter keywords. If I started typing California, it would offer me the option of either just california or, in the recent past, california<usa<north america<places, and I would choose just one, and it worked fine. It's just stopped working that way 'suddenly' in past few days. ah well, as I mentioned to wobertc's re;ply, I can type faster than all of this so I'm just gonna continue that way until I can figure out this issue.

                                    If I find a solution, as I have a colleague who's really good with keyword, and keyword sets, etc., I will let everyone here know!

                                    • 15. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                                      johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                                      when for other states it was showing up when there was only one, not two, as you show here for California

                                      To test my understanding: You have a keyword, e.g. Idaho, that you think only occured once in the hierarchy. But when you added that keyword to a photo, it showed up as Idaho < USA < North America < Places in the Keywording panel for that photo?

                                       

                                      Most likely, that happened because Idaho in fact occurred twice in the keyword list, and it stopped happening after you removed one of the copies during your reorganization.

                                       

                                      It's been a common issue that when people reorganize their keywords, they often still have second copies of the keyword lurking somewhere else in the hierarchy.  You can check for a second copy of, for example, Idaho, by using the Filter Keywords box in the Keyword List panel:

                                      • 16. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                                        johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                                        My issue started because typically I was getting the whole hierarchy to load, which saves a lot of typing, and puts all the things I need in place for stock submissions

                                        [This post has a screenshot that only shows up when viewed in your Web browser.]

                                         

                                        Note that when a hierarchical keyword is added to a photo, the keyword's hierarchy gets exported with the photo **regardless** of what LR displays in the Keywording panel. 

                                         

                                        Continuing with the previous example, when you add Tennessee to the photo, it shows up as just "Tennessee" in the Keyword List panel.  But in the Keyword List panel, you'll see a checkmark to the left of Tennessee < US, and the full hierarchical name Tennessee < US will get exported (unless you turned off that feature in the export settings). 

                                        In particular, there is no need to type out the full Tennessee < US, saving you a lot of typing.

                                        • 17. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                                          johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                                          Oops, that should read: Continuing with the previous example, when you add Tennessee to the photo, it shows up as just "Tennessee" in the Keywording panel.

                                          • 18. Re: Keyword Inconsistency
                                            BrendaTharp Level 1

                                            Thank you John, I did test that export out and see that it's there, so at least I have peace of mind knowing that, and don't have to to type in US or USA, or north america, etc. Keywording takes a long time when you fall way behind like I have, so I'm feeling the 'pain' of getting it all done and done correctly, lol!

                                             

                                            Much appreciated, Brenda