9 Replies Latest reply on Jul 29, 2016 5:38 AM by trshaner

    Maximize Lightroom performance on a X58 system for I/O and transfer speed with SATA III card?

    markk80367641

      Hi!

      I'm planning to get Lightroom 6 since as I understand it has support for Face recognition and also since I'm moving from other software I have used until now.

      However I'd like to maximize the performance on a X58 rig that I'm moving to.

      What I'd like to achieve:

      1. Fast and smooth (no freezing or so) scanning, thumbnail generation and face recognition of images so that I can max out the CPU/RAM + software and they set the limiting factors instead of storage transfer and I/O doing that and making the rest of the computer wait.

      2. Smooth. fast scrolling, viewing and sorting of images.

       

      The questions:

      1. Does Lightroom use maximum available RAM, i.e is there any point upgrading ram?

      2. Is I/O speed important for Lightroom?

      3. Is storage transfer speed important for Lightroom?

      4. How do 2 and 3 balance each other? I.E is it worth tryin to maximize both sata III port speed and I/O capacity or is that just not worth it?

      5. Since the X58 platform doesn't have any native support for SATA III - is it worth buying a simple or more advanced controller card with PCIe to SATA III? Anyone with any real world experience there? Any suggestion on what PCIe 2x-8x card might work really good for 2 Samsung ssd's as a minimum?

      6. Is there any advantage in trying to up the storage I/O performance and speed for Lightroom or is software not able to utilise that?

       

      I have looked at PCIe SSDs but they are just to expensive so therefore I think I'm stuck with SATA III cards. Same with Thunderbolt, enclosures are too expensive,

      Also I wonder if Face recognition actually benefits from using a Quadro GPU over a ordinary Geforce or Radeon card?

       

       

        • 1. Re: Maximize Lightroom performance on a X58 system for I/O and transfer speed with SATA III card?
          dj_paige Level 9

          Just a couple of comments.

           

          Most of the perceived speed of Lightroom comes from the CPU (and GPU if enabled). You want the fastest CPU (and GPU if enabled) you can afford. Disk speed matters little, except that the catalog file itself and previews will work better on a very fast disk. Editing, importing, exporting are not really affected by disk speed, and so the photos can go on your slowest disk and you'll never notice the difference.

           

          So, SSD for catalog and previews, internal HD or external HD for photos.

           

          Face recognition is driven entirely by the CPU, the GPU will not have an impact on face recognition.

           

          High end GPUs are not needed unless you have a 4K or 5K monitor. Otherwise, you can get by with a low end GPU, or even one built into the mother board.

          • 2. Re: Maximize Lightroom performance on a X58 system for I/O and transfer speed with SATA III card?
            markk80367641 Level 1

            There still has to be some lower performance floor that is dependent on the SSD/HDD transfer speed right?

            Are there any numbers on how fast a CPU can process the images when importing?

             

            As for face recognition is it made in parallell while importing or is it done when the whole importing procedure is done? Quite sad that there still seems to be nog GPGPU support for face recognition.

            • 3. Re: Maximize Lightroom performance on a X58 system for I/O and transfer speed with SATA III card?
              dj_paige Level 9

              There still has to be some lower performance floor that is dependent on the SSD/HDD transfer speed right?

              I don't know exactly what this means, but disk speed makes only a very trivial impact on editing, importing and exporting, and you will never notice the difference.

               

              Are there any numbers on how fast a CPU can process the images when importing?

              I am not aware of an actual study, but it is true that the faster the CPU, the faster your importing will go.

               

              As for face recognition is it made in parallell while importing or is it done when the whole importing procedure is done?

              I don't know, but when you are importing, the CPU is working hard, so I suspect face recognition is done afterwards.

              • 4. Re: Maximize Lightroom performance on a X58 system for I/O and transfer speed with SATA III card?
                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                markk80367641 wrote:

                 

                What I'd like to achieve:

                1. Fast and smooth (no freezing or so) scanning, thumbnail generation and face recognition of images so that I can max out the CPU/RAM + software and they set the limiting factors instead of storage transfer and I/O doing that and making the rest of the computer wait.

                2. Smooth. fast scrolling, viewing and sorting of images.

                 

                In addition to the good advice given by there are things you can do inside LR to keep it operating smoothly. LR is a non-destructive editor that creates and uses separate preview files for viewing imported files in the Library module. I suggest building standard sized previews on import and then update image files after each editing session by rebuilding the standard previews or creating 1:1 previews if you want to view them at 1:1 view in the Library module. During the time the previews are being built you can expect some reduction in LR's performance and the same goes for face recognition. So it's best to let these operations complete. You can continue to work in LR, but don't expect things to run as smooth until these background operations have finished.

                 

                The Develop module does not use the Library preview files and builds its screen previews real-time using a simpler algorithm to minimize control lag. The image file resolution and monitor screen resolution both impact LR's performance. Many users with high-resolution Retina or 4K displays have complained about LR running slow, even with GPU support enabled. I'm using a 2560 x 1440 monitor with 21Mp raw files on a modest i7-860 system with 12GB memory and low-end Quadro 600 GPU with no real issues. My suggestion is to use a monitor with no higher than 2560 x 1440 resolution, at least for now.

                 

                You should purchase the highest clock speed quad-core processor you can afford. Six-core processors with the same or slightly less clock speed may or may not be of any benefit based on reports in this forum. Concerning the graphics card selection many users with very high-end GPUs have reported performance issues, probably due to the fact they are using Retina or other 4K displays. So making a large $ investment in a high-end graphics card may provide little performance improvement. Here are Adobe's suggestions: Adobe Lightroom GPU Troubleshooting and FAQ

                 

                markk80367641 wrote:

                Also I wonder if Face recognition actually benefits from using a Quadro GPU over a ordinary Geforce or Radeon card?

                 

                None that I am aware of. The Nvidia Quadro line has better compatibility due to support of multiple driver versions. This is also why the Quadro line is more expensive. The only reason I purchased a Quadro card was for 30 bit color mode support in Photoshop with my NEC PA272w monitor. Unfortunately, it no longer works with PS CC 2015..........

                 

                You may also want to read this post by Eric Chan, Adobe Engineering concerning limitations of the current GPU support: GPU notes for Lightroom CC (2015)

                 

                Some more tips here: How to improve and speed up Photoshop Lightroom performance

                • 5. Re: Maximize Lightroom performance on a X58 system for I/O and transfer speed with SATA III card?
                  markk80367641 Level 1

                  Thanks for the answer! Both you and !

                  I also found this at Puget Systems https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Lightroom-CC-6-Multi-Core-Performance-649 /  where they make actual measurement, which is that I am looking after. The reason for all of this is that I have close to 0.5 M images that need to be re-imported, scanned and being in a catalogue. So far I have been using Picasa and I am amazed that it has held up to that size of a database, even if not fully smoothly.

                  The image sizes are from 05-28 Mpixel.

                  As I understand from what you write and what Puget Systems has tested and concluded, the only function in LR that actually benefits from a really powerful computer is the image export. Import seems to be quite slow, as is Face recognition - which seems like quite a bit of a fail considering ppl buy >4 multi core cpu's to get acceleration. Puget Systems test concludes you are correct about the highest clock being one of the most important factors so far.

                  The X58 1366 CPU I have now is the one I'll have to deal with. It's 3.2 GHz. However I can overclock to 4 GHz I think if necessary.

                  However it's a bit sad that it's not possible to accelerate the import. Do you know if it's possible to

                  - Import a Picasa database with the thumbnail's - I assume they are 1:1?

                  - Instruct Lightroom to first make a full import and only then run the Face Recognition?

                  - Run the Face Recognition in 3 x 2 core parallell threads? If the FR only uses 2 core and a computer has a multiuple of x2 core, in theory - depending on how the FR is implemented and how the database is written and works (to prevent different read/write conflicts) - it might be possible to run a multiple of the x2 cores of a CPU's total cores - (minus) possibly 1 pair x2 for the rest of the system.

                   

                  Also I found a hack instruction how to import a Picasa Face database to LR, do you or anyone else know if it works or is actually any benefit?

                   

                  Oh, and I assume that the catalogue benefits from fast I/O and transfer speeds, right?

                  • 6. Re: Maximize Lightroom performance on a X58 system for I/O and transfer speed with SATA III card?
                    dj_paige Level 9

                    As I understand from what you write and what Puget Systems has tested and concluded, the only function in LR that actually benefits from a really powerful computer is the image export.

                    I'll have to read the article from Puget systems, but this is NOT what I am saying. The CPU speed DIRECTLY and SUBSTANTIALLY effects the speed of importing, generating previews, editing and export (and a few other things as well). In fact, the speed of these operations depends almost entirely on the CPU speed. If Puget systems is saying that it ONLY effects export, then I disagree, vehemently, it effects lots of things.

                    • 7. Re: Maximize Lightroom performance on a X58 system for I/O and transfer speed with SATA III card?
                      dj_paige Level 9

                      I assume that the catalogue benefits from fast I/O and transfer speeds, right?

                      The Library module does indeed benefit from a fast disk. For other parts of Lightroom, the benefit of a fast disk is trivial.

                      • 8. Re: Maximize Lightroom performance on a X58 system for I/O and transfer speed with SATA III card?
                        dj_paige Level 9

                        After reading the Puget systems article, they are only looking at the number of cores, and not the speed of the CPU.

                         

                        My statements above refer to the speed of the CPU, increasing the speed of the CPU will improve the speed of import, editing and exporting; and vice versa. The disk speed will have a trivial impact on importing. When I say importing, I am referring to both the physical transfer of the photos AND the subsequent/parallel activity of generating previews. These are one operation in my mind, you can't really separate them.

                        • 9. Re: Maximize Lightroom performance on a X58 system for I/O and transfer speed with SATA III card?
                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          markk80367641 wrote:

                          I also found this at Puget Systems https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Lightroom-CC-6-Multi-Core-Performance-649 / where they make actual measurement, which is that I am looking after.

                          Keep in mind that testing was done over a year ago. LR has gone through 10 updates (6.1 to 6.6.1) with numerous changes to improve performance. The test results may be somewhat different today.

                           

                          markk80367641 wrote:

                          As I understand from what you write and what Puget Systems has tested and concluded, the only function in LR that actually benefits from a really powerful computer is the image export. Import seems to be quite slow, as is Face recognition

                          In the past users have tried using multiple parallel imports with some success. I haven't tried it with the latest version, but it is something you can try. For example, import 500 image files, reopen the Import module and import another group of 500 image files, and repeat until you have four operations running in the LR Task bar. Check your processor untilization as you add each new set of image files and see if it increases significantly.

                           

                          Concerning Face Recognition speed the below post from yesterday may be of interest. The user found breaking down Face Recognition operations to smaller groups of image files speeds the process. He also found using the prior LR 6.5.1 version operates faster. YMMV, but LR's performance improvements have been a moving target with some updates speeding up certain processes...and slowing down others.

                           

                          Optimal Catalog Size / Performance Issues

                           

                          Based on 's results you may find LR 6.5.1 a better choice until a new update fixes the issue. It's easy enough to rollback so you could try 6.6.1 to start and then roll back to 6.5.1 and test it.

                           

                          http://www.lightroomqueen.com/roll-back-update-previous/