24 Replies Latest reply on Sep 2, 2016 8:54 AM by thanmartin

    Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.

    Levalt Level 1

      I currently have Premiere Elements 11, but I can upgrade it to PE 14.

      I am planning to buy a camcorder and start shooting videos in 4K format.

      Is it possible to edit 4K videos on PE14?

      Is it possible to publish the 4K project on a  blu-ray disc?

      I have 4K TV, but I do not have 4K burner and 4K player. I am actually not sure if 4K burners are on the market.

      What is the best I can do under the circumstances?

       

      Thanks. Lev.

        • 1. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          Yes, you can certainly edit XAVC 4K in Premiere Elements 14.

           

          But, no, you can not output a 4K BluRay disc. BluRay discs are 1920x1080.

           

          Premiere Elements 14 can output a 3840x2160 mp4 which can be played on a computer or shared to YouTube. But, even if you have a 4K disc player, you can not output a UHD disc from Premiere Elements.

          • 2. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
            whsprague Level 4

            Steve is correct.  I've been using Premier Elements 13 to edit and create 4K videos.  (I'm a version behind!).   I use two Panasonic cameras.  Premier Elements works well for it.

             

            Optical disks, as a playing media, seem to be declining.  It may turn out that 4K discs will not be used for distributing Hollywood productions like DVD and Blu-Ray were.  Although the 4K TVs are abundant in the stores, "4K Ultra HD Blu-Ray" players are not.  I think Samsung and Panasonic each have one.  I think what is happening is that the Hollywood content will be offered for 4K TVs through systems like Netflix and Amazon where no disc production is necessary. 

             

            Consequently we may never see "4K Ultra HD Blu-Ray" burners for consumer computer systems. 

             

            What to do?  There are two choices.  First, newer 4K TVs have USB ports that accept thumb/flash drives and even HDDs.  The menu system on the TV itself us used to control the playback of both videos and photos.  I took a thumb drive to a TV store with samples of my 4K videos and it worked well.   One brand worked better than the other.   This is the system that looks like it will be the choice for most consumers who produce their own 4K content.  Using Premier Elements (or other NLE) you output a 4K MP4 video, put it on a thumb drive, plug it into the TV and play it.

             

            Second, both YouTube and Vimeo have incorporated 4K capabilities.  Depending on your internet connection and media player device you can watch your own 4K content that you've previously placed there.  Both services have privacy settings if you want to restrict who watches your content.  I prefer Vimeo.  I have some 4K content there if you want to "test" your TV's ability to play it.

             

            Bill

            • 3. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
              Levalt Level 1

              Thank you Steve and Bill for your comprehensive answer to my questions.

              Bill, have you really noticed a significant improvement in quality while watching your 4K movies compared to your movies shot in Blu-Ray format?

              Could you please give me a link to some of your 4K videos to watch them on my smart 4K TV?

              I do have USB ports on my TV and I have an external Hard Drive that I can connect through USB directly to my computer and TV.

              Can I load 4K MP4 video edited in PE to an external hard drive and then watch it on TV having everything in my project in place (menu, titles, music, etc.) ?

               

              Lev.

              • 4. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                whsprague Level 4

                Lev,

                 

                I don't have a 4K TV!  The reason I shoot 4K is that the footage has far more data in it for improved editing options.  There is no doubt that when my current HD TV breaks, I will replace it with a 4K model.   The edit processing takes a little longer, but the results are better.

                 

                The earliest (2015?) 4K TVs were not all capable of playing from USB devices.  I've read the newer models (2016?) all do. 

                 

                You should be able to produce a 4K MP4 that is playable complete with music, titles and effects.  I don't use menus, so I don't know how that works with MP4 files.  It may not be the same as with Blu-Ray Disk menus. 

                 

                Vimeo links:

                Straight out of camera, unedited 4K clip at the Oregon coast.  You can download it from Vimeo in its exact original form. 

                Out of Camera, Unedited LX100 4K Video Clip - on Vimeo

                 

                Another unedited clip.  I think I shot this one in Sweden: 

                Sample LX100 clip straight from the camera on Vimeo

                 

                Heavily edited collection of clips using Premier Elements 13.  A few of the clips were processed with the Stabilization effect. 

                Seals on Their Buoy in 4K with a LX100 on Vimeo

                 

                Another PrE processed 4K video:

                Bryce in 4K on Vimeo

                 

                Depending on your TV, you should be able to use the Vimeo download function, load them on your external HDD or a thumb drive and see if they play.  I used a thumb drive for the same purpose with the same clips and videos for a "test" at Costco a few months ago. 

                 

                Bill

                • 5. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                  Levalt Level 1

                  Thank you Bill.

                  Your videos look great on Vimeo. Especially I like the Bryce Canyon NP video.

                  I've tried to download your little out of camera clip to my memory stick to try to watch it on TV, but I couldn't figure out how to do it.

                  It seems to me that it is not possible to download anything from Vimeo to a memory stick only upload more files to the Vimeo website...

                   

                  Lev.

                  • 6. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                    whsprague Level 4

                    Levalt wrote:

                     

                    ....I've tried to download your little out of camera clip to my memory stick to try to watch it on TV, but I couldn't figure out how to do it...........It seems to me that it is not possible to download anything from Vimeo.....

                     

                    Lev.

                    I pay about $50 a year so that my friends and family can have a few extra options.  One is downloading.

                     

                    There is a Download button below the video:

                    Download Button.JPG

                     

                    After you click the button, you get choices.  The bottom one is "Original".  That will deliver to your computer the exact same file I sent to vimeo. 

                     

                    Download 2.JPG

                    • 7. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                      Levalt Level 1

                      Thank you Bill.

                      I was able to download your video to a memory stick and also to an external hard drive.

                      I had no problem to watch your video on my 4K TV connecting both of them through USB port on TV.

                      I like my HD videos, but you can tell the difference watching 4K video. It is just unbelievable!!!

                      So, what I need to do is very clear: I need to buy 4K camcorder and one more external hard drive that I will use exclusively for 4K videos in MP4 format. I have to upgrade my PE 11 to the latest one anyway. I think that it makes sense to wait for a couple of months for PE 15 release.  I do not take pictures any more while shooting HD videos and using PE 11 for editing. I use Tools --> Freeze Screen -->Export in PE. This way you will get much more sophisticated collection of still pictures driven directly from your video. Of course, you always can apply a touch up to the pictures through the Photoshop Elements. If you do not use this PE great tool, try it, you will have a lot of fun!

                      I checked on the internet and Sony Handycam FDR-AX53 Ultra HD Camcorder has good reviews. It is under $1,000.

                      Sony FDR-AX53 4K High End Consumer Video Camera Review - YouTube

                      Which camcorder do you have?

                       

                      Lev.

                      • 8. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                        whsprague Level 4

                        Lev,

                         

                        Glad you got it to work.

                         

                        The clips and videos you looked at all came from a Panasonic LX100.  It is more of a hybrid because it does both video and stills well.  I've not ended my photography habits!  The LX100 has limits, especially in telephoto reach.  Recently my wife gave me a Panasonic GX8 and a long reach zoom lens to go with it.  Like the LX100, it does very well at both photography and videography. 

                         

                        Bill

                        • 9. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                          Levalt Level 1

                          Hi Steve,

                          I have never shot movies in 4K, only in HD (FH), the video clips were in .MTS format. I also have never done recording in a dual format.

                          I used PE 11 to edit my movie: added movie menu, titles, transition, music, effects, still pictures, etc.

                          I published final movies on BD discs or DVDs in AVCHD format.

                          Now I am planning to switch to 4K.

                          I am thinking of buying Sony Handycam FDR-AX53 camcorder.

                          Here is the specification from Sony website:

                          FDR-AX53 Specifications | Camcorders | Sony US

                          If I understand the specification correctly, I can do dual recording and one of them is in 4K.

                          When I will be editing my 4K video I want to make it more sophisticated by adding  movie menu, titles, transition, music, effects, still pictures, etc.

                          I would like to save my final project on an external hard drive, connect it to my 4K TV through USB, use a TV remote control to make

                          a selection from the movie menu and play the movie.

                          Also it would be nice to publish my 4K video on Vimeo, YouTube or my personal website (if I have any) with a restricted access to my friends and relatives.

                          Is it possible?

                          Do I need to shoot my video in dual format to achieve this goal?

                          Which recording formats do I need to choose?

                          Is editing done only for one format? For which one?

                          Why actually do I need a dual recording if I edit my video only in one format?

                          Sorry for many questions.

                           

                          Lev.

                          • 10. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                            I guess I don't know what dual recording is.

                             

                            But otherwise, yes, you can do all of those things with that camcorder and Premiere Elements 14.

                            • 11. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                              Levalt Level 1

                              Steve,

                              If I choose recording format XAVC S with video resolution XAVC S 4K : 3840x2160/30p

                              • I will be able to edit my 4K video in PE 14 (and I assume PE 15 that will possible be released in this fall);
                              • There is an option in PE 14 that allows to publish a final project on an external hard drive;
                              • When I hook up the external hard drive to 4K TV through USB port I will be able to use TV remote control to make a selection from the movie menu and play the movie;
                              • The format of the project file on the hard drive will allow me to also publish 4K video from the hard drive on Vimeo, YouTube or my personal website.

                               

                              Is my understanding correct?

                               

                              Lev.

                              • 12. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                                whsprague Level 4

                                I'm not Steve.  He is a busy guy!  I'm retired

                                 

                                I do all those things with version 13.  I edit 4K video, "publish" my project to my hard drive in a variety of formats and put completed 4K videos on Vimeo.   This is standard stuff.

                                 

                                The variable in your list that is not answerable is about menus.  The new 4K TVs all have menu systems.  They vary in style.  As far as I know, MP4 4K video files don't support menus.  Instead you might have separate clips controlled by the TV menu.  But, I don't think you are going to make your 4K video files work like DVDs for menus.

                                 

                                Regarding dual recording, the camera you are looking at has that as an odd, but very limited feature.  You can record short "dual" clips.  One will be of crappy resolution but small enough for quick posting of unedited clips to places like facebook.  The other will be better.  Be sure to read the fine print because primary shooting in the best quality (4K) may take all the camera's resources.  Besides, that is one of the points to using an editor.  From the project you can output anything from crappy resolution to spectacular resolution.

                                 

                                Buy the camera and buy Premier Elements in version 14 or 15.  When you're ready I'll suggest a top notch online "school" where you can figure out how to put it all together.  Get going!  You're wasting precious time!

                                • 13. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                                  Levalt Level 1

                                  Bill,

                                  Movie menu is very important. I usually have long  tourist movies.

                                  The one I have been working right now is around 2 hours. It has a movie menu and having it on the BD disc I can choose any part I want to play from the movie menu. I understand that in 4K I can have separate files for each part of a long movie (actually creating a few separate projects) and run each one individually from TV menu, but it is like going back to a stick shift when you are accustomed to an automatic transmission. It is a BIG step back!

                                  I can't believe that there is NO option to have a movie menu in 4K movie.

                                  Let's see what Steve says.

                                  He is a professional, we are just amateur videographers. :-)

                                   

                                  Lev.

                                  • 14. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                                    whsprague Level 4

                                    Levalt wrote:

                                     

                                    Bill,

                                    Movie menu is very important. I usually have long tourist movies.

                                    The one I have been working right now is around 2 hours. It has a movie menu and having it on the BD disc I can choose any part I want to play from the movie menu. I understand that in 4K I can have separate files for each part of a long movie (actually creating a few separate projects) and run each one individually from TV menu, but it is like going back to a stick shift when you are accustomed to an automatic transmission. It is a BIG step back!

                                    I can't believe that there is NO option to have a movie menu in 4K movie.

                                    Let's see what Steve says.

                                    He is a professional, we are just amateur videographers. :-)

                                     

                                    Lev.

                                    A two hour tourist video!  Good luck on keeping people awake for that!

                                     

                                    You are not going to get what you want.  You may well be able to have menus in a 4K project, but not until there are consumer based burners for that.  You can have a 4K project with menus and "down res" to a Blu-Ray with menus.  It will look fine.

                                     

                                    I googled for menus in MP4 files.  I suggest you do the same.  I got nothing other than it does not work.  I also spent 20 minutes trying it.  It did not work. 

                                     

                                    Steve is not actually a "professional" videographer (no offence Steve).  He has a business training people to use a variety of consumer based graphics tools.  He is very good at that. 

                                     

                                    I'm signing off on this discussion.  You either get Blu-Ray menus or 4K quality videos. 

                                     

                                    For what it's worth, the attention span for a tourist video is about 3 minutes max.  If you can't tell the story in 3 minutes the viewer will sleep.  Good luck with your project. 

                                    • 15. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                                      Levalt Level 1

                                      Thank you Bill. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. It was not intentional.

                                      So far no one was sleeping while watching my tourist videos. There is a reason that some of them are long.

                                      It is hard to put everything in a 3 minute video if the video is Australia-New Zealand-Fiji Islands or something like this.

                                      Thank you for the research on the menu. I will probably do the following:

                                      Shoot videos in 4K and then publish the compressed project to BD disc and publish it for the second time as a MP4 file that will ignore the menu to the external HD to watch it on TV just to compare its quality with the BD and also upload it to Vimeo, YouTube or my personal website.

                                       

                                      Lev.

                                      • 16. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                                        Levalt Level 1

                                        I checked a few forums and it seems to me that there is no way, at least as of now, to create MP4 file that incorporates PE video menu. But I also found out that it is possible in PE 11 (the one I have) to create Web DVD that uploads video with all the stuff that includes menu to your own website. I am not familiar with PE 14, but it may be possible to upload 4K video with menu to your own website. If not, PE 15 may allow you to do it. Since there are no 4K burners on the market, this option is better than nothing.

                                         

                                        Lev.

                                        • 17. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                                          thanmartin

                                          Steve,

                                          I just wondered, what kind of machine you are using, for I downloaded the PE 14 trial and tried to edit my 4K footage XAVC-s 100Mbs. I could play it. I tried a few things on it like lens distortion or tracking a face in 20s of footage, After 20 min the tracking was still not done and disappeared. Then I tried to just export 1 min of footage without any effects and it took 12 min to export with the 4K video preset.

                                          I only have an AMD FX8370 running at 4 GHz

                                          16 GB of Ram

                                          ssd hdd and large hdd

                                          and nvidia gtx 950

                                          So I really wondered what kind of machine one needs to have to conveniently edit 4K footage for Premiere Elements 14 to work satisfactory?

                                          Any suggestions?

                                          thanks

                                          MB

                                          • 18. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                                            thanmartin Level 1

                                            whsprague,

                                            same question to you as I put above to Steve, you say you do a lot of editing in 4K

                                            what machine do you have?

                                            I have clips between 10 to 30 min long. and I don't want to wait 6 to 8 hours for outputting to 4k

                                            thanks

                                            • 19. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                                              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                              I'm using Windows 10 on an i7-4770 with 12 gigs of RAM.

                                               

                                              If you'd like to share a sample of your 4k footage via Dropbox, I'll be glad to give it a test drive on my machine. Just share it to my first name care of my web site, Muvipix dot com.

                                              • 20. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                                                whsprague Level 4

                                                thanmartin wrote:

                                                 

                                                whsprague,

                                                same question to you as I put above to Steve, you say you do a lot of editing in 4K

                                                what machine do you have?

                                                I have clips between 10 to 30 min long. and I don't want to wait 6 to 8 hours for outputting to 4k

                                                thanks

                                                My comupter is nearly 4 years old.  I wanted a laptop for video editing while traveling in an RV.  At the time, the most capable laptops were called "gamers".   I don't do 30 minute clips or videos.   My editing practice is to trim the best three to five seconds out of 10 to 20 second clips for a three to five minute video.   Output transcoding times for that will be about 2 to 3 times the length of the clip.  Some effects will cause the computer to work a lot harder.  I suspect motion tracking for a full 15 minute clip could make for some slow output transcoding.

                                                 

                                                ASUS Republic of Gamers G75VW-DS72

                                                2.3GHz Intel Core i7-3610QM Quad-Core  7463

                                                16GB of DDR3 RAM

                                                256GB SSD

                                                750GB 7200 RPM HDD

                                                nVIDIA GeForce GTX 670M Graphics (3GB)

                                                Blu-ray Player and Burner

                                                Windows 10

                                                • 21. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                                                  thanmartin Level 1

                                                  Steve, whsprague

                                                  thanks for your quick reply.

                                                  Steve I don't have a dropbox account, but I can give you a link to the file, where you can download it. (1min 4K about 600 MB)

                                                  here is the link: http://www.forestdhammatalks.org/uploads/test4k.mp4

                                                  If you have time I want you to try lensdistortion -22 on the clip and warp stabilizer. and see how long it takes.

                                                  If you could also track one of the faces it would be appreciated.

                                                  I cut out the clip with Powerdirector 14 in 20sec

                                                  Some files I have are 20, 40min or even 80 min(70 GB file)

                                                  If people here on the forum have experience with editing footage Premiere Elements of more than 10 min, applying effects etc. I really would appreciate their comments as well.

                                                  thanks everyone and have a nice day

                                                  • 22. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                                                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                                    I downloaded your video and it loaded right into a new Premiere Elements 14 project and played on my system without a hiccup.

                                                     

                                                    I added it as the first clip on my timeline and it loads without a yellow-orange line above it.

                                                     

                                                    When I go to Project Settings (under the Edit menu) the settings show they are set up for RED Cinema, 3840x2160p30 -- which the program handles beautifully.

                                                     

                                                    You can see it here: 4K Test Footage - YouTube

                                                     

                                                    So,yes, the program can definitely edit this video in native resolution, and on a much slower machine than you have.

                                                    • 23. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                                                      whsprague Level 4

                                                      thanmartin wrote:

                                                       

                                                      Steve, whsprague

                                                      thanks for your quick reply.

                                                      Steve I don't have a dropbox account, but I can give you a link to the file, where you can download it. (1min 4K about 600 MB)

                                                      here is the link: http://www.forestdhammatalks.org/uploads/test4k.mp4

                                                      If you have time I want you to try lensdistortion -22 on the clip and warp stabilizer. and see how long it takes.

                                                      If you could also track one of the faces it would be appreciated.

                                                      I cut out the clip with Powerdirector 14 in 20sec

                                                      Some files I have are 20, 40min or even 80 min(70 GB file)

                                                      If people here on the forum have experience with editing footage Premiere Elements of more than 10 min, applying effects etc. I really would appreciate their comments as well.

                                                      thanks everyone and have a nice day

                                                      "I cut out the clip with Powerdirector 14 in 20sec"....  How did you do that?  Isn't Powerdirector is an NLE where a cut clip has to be transcoded to make a "cut" or trimmed clip?  I think Steve may have tested the output of Powerdirector, not the output of your camera.

                                                       

                                                      "try lensdistortion -22 on the clip and warp stabilizer."  Premier Elements does not have "warp stabilizer".   That is exclusive to Premier Pro CC.  Premier Elements has a shake stabilizer effect of less capability.  To work, any stabilizer has to examine every frame, calculate an adjustment and then apply that adjustment.   I've used it on short clips and recently bought a third party stabilizer called "proDAD Mercalli V3".  Even on short clips, my computer has to work hard.  I wouldn't dream of trying to stabilize a full 20 minute clip, let alone 80 minutes.  To do that much work, my computer could take days!

                                                       

                                                      "try lensdistortion -22".....  Adding an effect like that on top of shake stabilization, you make the computer work even harder and longer.

                                                       

                                                      Bill

                                                       

                                                      • 24. Re: Editing and publishing movie in 4K format.
                                                        thanmartin Level 1

                                                        Steve, Bill (whsprague)

                                                        thanks for your time and work.

                                                        Actually, the original clip is about 5 min long, to make it easier for testing I cut it out with Cyberlink Powerdirector 14 (it has a great feature call smart rendering technology, so if you don't add effects or transitions, it takes the same compression of the original video and just trims it to the specified length enabling to render it at extremely high speed that's why it took only 20 sec.

                                                        I also tried prodads dranaline, the results are only slightly better than that of  Powerdirector 14, but I really couldn't test it to my satisfaction for it lets you try it out really for 10 sec. So I only could judge that it seems a bit better. But as a standalone it's too expensive.

                                                        What I tried with Premiere Elements 14, and it is a trial version with puts an ugly logo atop the video (and maybe that's the reason why it is so slow?), with this one min clip, first lensdistortion -22 then export it as 4K took one hour to export. The second trial was stabilizer analyzing about 15 min, rendering about 25 min, then exporting about 2 hours and 20 min. (strangely enough it rendered again when exporting...)

                                                        Anyway thanks for your help and time and have a great weekend!

                                                        Martin

                                                         

                                                        Ps just to mention why I'm trying out all sorts of things, normally editing DV and for the last 5 years Full HD and HD and only recently getting 4K footage. For 15 years I use Adobe Premiere and for the last 4 years CS6 on an Intel 5820K. It's fast! On Full HD lens correction wasn't a problem, a bit slow, but manageable. But then I wanted to render one hour of 4 K footage with lens correction exporting it thinking it will take a few hours until it told me completion time in about 48 hours! So I shopped around looked compared until I found good reviews of Powerdirector 14, tried it out, bought it the next day and exported the same footage with lens correction on the slower AMD within about 2 hours and 30 min. I do like Adobe and especially premiere Pro, that's why I wanted to also try out Premiere Elements 14.